First fish suggestions...

The first fish should be a very sturdy species such as the Neopomacentrus
cyanomos, the Regal Demoiselle, they are adapted to survive in a wide range
of parameters fluctuations. Any damselfish is fine but I found this species
to tolerate better than any other.
For starter they are great.
In following replies to your post the Lawnmower Blenny was suggested but
after a few years experimenting with controling nitrates naturaly in my
tank, I found that vegetarians contribute more to increase levels of
nitrates in your tank.
You see, the nitrogen cycle changes ammonnia to nitrites, both toxic, then
the nitrites get transformed to nitrates. On this stage is when nitrogen is
less toxic and easily absorbed by algae. If a Blenny is to eat the algae,
it gets transformed again to Ammonnia and the cycle starts again. The best
way to get rid of unwanted nitrogen in your tank is to harvest algae
manually not to have the vegetarians turn them back into the cycle.
Blennies are great fish and will eat almost any flake food. I have to keep
a refugium where I extract the algae myself.
Another sturdy species is the Clarks Clownfish.

iy
"Aroon" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi,

I was wondering whether anyone has a suggestion for a cool first fish
to add to my sal****er tank.

This is my first SW tank, having kept small and big fw tanks all my
life. Tank cycled for a month, and i started added critters last week.

The current inhabitats are hermit crabs (10 red legged), snails (1
turbo and 5 bumble bee), and an Emerald crab.
I had a surge of algae a week after my tank finished cycling, and am
trying to get this under control with these cleaners. I would like to
add fish soon.

My near-term goal (next 6-months) is to add 1 clown fish, 1 goby, and
1 six line wrasse.

I thought it would be a good idea to start with a reasonably priced,
hardy fish to start.

I have 50 lbs of live rock in a 58g. all my nitrogen params are
stable, and where they should be.

Temp is 82, ph 8.4, alk 2.6, calcium 450.

If you have any suggestions, I would be interested in hearing friom
you.

Thanks, Aroon

"Aroon" wrote in message ups.com...
thanks for the comments. i only plan on having 4 or 5 fish in my 58g
as i would like to get anemones and coral when the time is right.
Sounds like I shoould start with the clownfish i want, or go with a
damsel? i have been considering a talbot damsel.

The cycle in your tank is over, so you do not need to worry about
elevated ammonia levels and pick a "hardy fish" because of ammonia...

Start stocking your tank with the overal picture in mind.

Think of the idea that the fish you buy will stay with you for long years.
Unless fish dies, it is very hard to catch it and remove from the reef tank
without demolishing the rock-work and probably ruin your corals first.

I got all four fish to my tank in 2002 and they are with me today...
They are kind of part of the family now :-)

Go with a pair of clownfish. The kind you plan on having.
After a month or two, get the other two-three fish you've planned for.

Damsel is not a very good choice... Very Mean *******s!
Especially when they are getting older and bigger.
They can destroy all fun from having a fish tank.
Read online alot about damsels before you decide to buy.
There are a lot of stories of people buying damsels out of
an impulse or because of stupid advice and then having hard
time geting rid of an unwanted fish. Save yourself a hassle
and donot buy damsel unless you really, really like these fish
and really want to keep them.

On Jun 25, 6:58 pm, "Pszemol" wrote:
"Aroon" wrote in oglegroups.com...
thanks for the comments. i only plan on having 4 or 5 fish in my 58g
as i would like to get anemones and coral when the time is right.
Sounds like I shoould start with the clownfish i want, or go with a
damsel? i have been considering a talbot damsel.

The cycle in your tank is over, so you do not need to worry about
elevated ammonia levels and pick a "hardy fish" because of ammonia...

Start stocking your tank with the overal picture in mind.

Think of the idea that the fish you buy will stay with you for long years.
Unless fish dies, it is very hard to catch it and remove from the reef tank
without demolishing the rock-work and probably ruin your corals first.

I got all four fish to my tank in 2002 and they are with me today...
They are kind of part of the family now :-)

Go with a pair of clownfish. The kind you plan on having.
After a month or two, get the other two-three fish you've planned for.

Damsel is not a very good choice... Very Mean *******s!
Especially when they are getting older and bigger.
They can destroy all fun from having a fish tank.
Read online alot about damsels before you decide to buy.
There are a lot of stories of people buying damsels out of
an impulse or because of stupid advice and then having hard
time geting rid of an unwanted fish. Save yourself a hassle
and donot buy damsel unless you really, really like these fish
and really want to keep them.

thanks for your advice, Pszemol.
that was a very well thought out response to my inquiry.

i am now convinced that a damselfish may be a good starter, but not
for the right reasons. i would not want to get a fish that in the long-
term wouldn't work with the rest of the inhabitants. i have only
started in this hobby, but I would like to be as eco-conscious as
possible. i.e. no wasted fish. (its in my job description-not
kidding). and damsels aren't really what i am going for. so, i will
start with the clownfish. i would like ocellaris clowns. would they be
ok as a pair? you mentioned in an earlier reponse that they should be
small. how small?

Aroon wrote:

My near-term goal (next 6-months) is to add 1 clown fish, 1 goby, and
1 six line wrasse.

I would put the goby in first, since they tend to be friendly fish. Something
like an orange diamond goby would be a nice one, but perhaps a bit large for
your tank. I like firefish, but you would want several of those if you go that
route. I would add the wrasse last. Note that the six-line may be aggressive and
may munch on some corals.

http://www.marinedepotlive.com/fish--gobies.html
http://www.marinedepotlive.com/fish--clowns.html
http://www.marinedepotlive.com/fish--wrasses.html

George Patterson
If you torture the data long enough, eventually it will confess
to anything.

Having algae eaters in the aquarium is good. The
more you can make the aquarium work for you, the
better. The idea of not putting algae eaters in an
aquarium so that you can remove the algae yourself
is absurd. If one wants to set up a refugium set
that up for the purpose of algae extract, that's
find and dandy, but not putting algae eaters in the
reef tank so that you can manually remove the algae
is absurd.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


Inabón Yunes wrote on 6/25/2007 9:29 PM:
In following replies to your post the Lawnmower Blenny was suggested but
after a few years experimenting with controling nitrates naturaly in my
tank, I found that vegetarians contribute more to increase levels of
nitrates in your tank.
You see, the nitrogen cycle changes ammonnia to nitrites, both toxic, then
the nitrites get transformed to nitrates. On this stage is when nitrogen is
less toxic and easily absorbed by algae. If a Blenny is to eat the algae,
it gets transformed again to Ammonnia and the cycle starts again. The best
way to get rid of unwanted nitrogen in your tank is to harvest algae
manually not to have the vegetarians turn them back into the cycle.
Blennies are great fish and will eat almost any flake food. I have to keep
a refugium where I extract the algae myself.
Another sturdy species is the Clarks Clownfish.

iy
"Aroon" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi,

I was wondering whether anyone has a suggestion for a cool first fish
to add to my sal****er tank.

This is my first SW tank, having kept small and big fw tanks all my
life. Tank cycled for a month, and i started added critters last week.

The current inhabitats are hermit crabs (10 red legged), snails (1
turbo and 5 bumble bee), and an Emerald crab.
I had a surge of algae a week after my tank finished cycling, and am
trying to get this under control with these cleaners. I would like to
add fish soon.

My near-term goal (next 6-months) is to add 1 clown fish, 1 goby, and
1 six line wrasse.

I thought it would be a good idea to start with a reasonably priced,
hardy fish to start.

I have 50 lbs of live rock in a 58g. all my nitrogen params are
stable, and where they should be.

Temp is 82, ph 8.4, alk 2.6, calcium 450.

If you have any suggestions, I would be interested in hearing friom
you.

Thanks, Aroon

Aroon wrote on 6/25/2007 10:47 PM:
i would like ocellaris clowns. would they be
ok as a pair? you mentioned in an earlier reponse that they should be
small. how small?


Yes, they would be good. Just don't mix one species
of clown with another. Yes two ocellaris will be
good. Most of what you see for sale are small
enough. The reason that you want two small ones is
because they are all males at a young age. If you
get two, one will grow faster than the other, and it
will become a female, and boss the mail around, but
it will be a stable arangement. Having two females
(larger ones) is not a good pair.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets

"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message ...
Aroon wrote on 6/25/2007 10:47 PM:
i would like ocellaris clowns. would they be
ok as a pair? you mentioned in an earlier reponse
that they should be small. how small?

Yes, they would be good. Just don't mix one species
of clown with another. Yes two ocellaris will be
good. Most of what you see for sale are small
enough. The reason that you want two small ones is
because they are all males at a young age. If you
get two, one will grow faster than the other, and it
will become a female, and boss the mail around, but
it will be a stable arangement. Having two females
(larger ones) is not a good pair.

Aroon, if you like clownfish and really want to read about
their interesting behaviour and unusual pairing process
borrow a very good book about them from the public library
or get your copy at Amazon.com:
http://www.amazon.com/Clownfishes-Jo...dp/1890087041/
I have my copy and I love this book. Everything you want
to know about clownfish is there in very plain English :-)

Preferable get the book BEFORE you start buying your fish.
You will make better choices this way...

You misunderstood my post, as usual...
Read again his question and my answer.
I know, I know, you are slow but, what can we do?
Actually, read the subject of this post, poor Wayne.
iy
"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message
...
Having algae eaters in the aquarium is good. The more you can make the
aquarium work for you, the better. The idea of not putting algae eaters in
an aquarium so that you can remove the algae yourself is absurd. If one
wants to set up a refugium set that up for the purpose of algae extract,
that's find and dandy, but not putting algae eaters in the reef tank so
that you can manually remove the algae is absurd.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


Inabón Yunes wrote on 6/25/2007 9:29 PM:
In following replies to your post the Lawnmower Blenny was suggested but
after a few years experimenting with controling nitrates naturaly in my
tank, I found that vegetarians contribute more to increase levels of
nitrates in your tank.
You see, the nitrogen cycle changes ammonnia to nitrites, both toxic,
then the nitrites get transformed to nitrates. On this stage is when
nitrogen is less toxic and easily absorbed by algae. If a Blenny is to
eat the algae, it gets transformed again to Ammonnia and the cycle starts
again. The best way to get rid of unwanted nitrogen in your tank is to
harvest algae manually not to have the vegetarians turn them back into
the cycle.
Blennies are great fish and will eat almost any flake food. I have to
keep a refugium where I extract the algae myself.
Another sturdy species is the Clarks Clownfish.

iy
"Aroon" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi,

I was wondering whether anyone has a suggestion for a cool first fish
to add to my sal****er tank.

This is my first SW tank, having kept small and big fw tanks all my
life. Tank cycled for a month, and i started added critters last week.

The current inhabitats are hermit crabs (10 red legged), snails (1
turbo and 5 bumble bee), and an Emerald crab.
I had a surge of algae a week after my tank finished cycling, and am
trying to get this under control with these cleaners. I would like to
add fish soon.

My near-term goal (next 6-months) is to add 1 clown fish, 1 goby, and
1 six line wrasse.

I thought it would be a good idea to start with a reasonably priced,
hardy fish to start.

I have 50 lbs of live rock in a 58g. all my nitrogen params are
stable, and where they should be.

Temp is 82, ph 8.4, alk 2.6, calcium 450.

If you have any suggestions, I would be interested in hearing friom
you.

Thanks, Aroon

I understood your post perfectly. You said

"The best
way to get rid of unwanted nitrogen in your tank is
to harvest algae
manually not to have the vegetarians turn them back
into the cycle."

It's too bad that you have not realized that the
algae grazers' poop helps encourage denitrification
in the sand bed. And helps to feed the fauna in the
sand bed.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


Inabón Yunes wrote on 6/26/2007 8:20 PM:
You misunderstood my post, as usual...
Read again his question and my answer.
I know, I know, you are slow but, what can we do?
Actually, read the subject of this post, poor Wayne.
iy
"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message
...
Having algae eaters in the aquarium is good. The more you can make the
aquarium work for you, the better. The idea of not putting algae eaters in
an aquarium so that you can remove the algae yourself is absurd. If one
wants to set up a refugium set that up for the purpose of algae extract,
that's find and dandy, but not putting algae eaters in the reef tank so
that you can manually remove the algae is absurd.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


Inabón Yunes wrote on 6/25/2007 9:29 PM:
In following replies to your post the Lawnmower Blenny was suggested but
after a few years experimenting with controling nitrates naturaly in my
tank, I found that vegetarians contribute more to increase levels of
nitrates in your tank.
You see, the nitrogen cycle changes ammonnia to nitrites, both toxic,
then the nitrites get transformed to nitrates. On this stage is when
nitrogen is less toxic and easily absorbed by algae. If a Blenny is to
eat the algae, it gets transformed again to Ammonnia and the cycle starts
again. The best way to get rid of unwanted nitrogen in your tank is to
harvest algae manually not to have the vegetarians turn them back into
the cycle.
Blennies are great fish and will eat almost any flake food. I have to
keep a refugium where I extract the algae myself.
Another sturdy species is the Clarks Clownfish.

iy
"Aroon" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi,

I was wondering whether anyone has a suggestion for a cool first fish
to add to my sal****er tank.

This is my first SW tank, having kept small and big fw tanks all my
life. Tank cycled for a month, and i started added critters last week.

The current inhabitats are hermit crabs (10 red legged), snails (1
turbo and 5 bumble bee), and an Emerald crab.
I had a surge of algae a week after my tank finished cycling, and am
trying to get this under control with these cleaners. I would like to
add fish soon.

My near-term goal (next 6-months) is to add 1 clown fish, 1 goby, and
1 six line wrasse.

I thought it would be a good idea to start with a reasonably priced,
hardy fish to start.

I have 50 lbs of live rock in a 58g. all my nitrogen params are
stable, and where they should be.

Temp is 82, ph 8.4, alk 2.6, calcium 450.

If you have any suggestions, I would be interested in hearing friom
you.

Thanks, Aroon

On Jun 25, 3:21 pm, Aroon wrote:
On Jun 25, 1:45 pm, KurtG wrote:

Pszemol wrote:
I have heard stories about this blenny being aggressive towards other fish.

Mine is fairly tame although I've seen it chase a blue damsel out of his
rabbit hole. He roams the entire 110g tank, but seems mostly content to
sit and watch happenings both inside and outside of the tank. I wonder
what goes on in its little head sometimes. I've seen my tang and
blenny feed on the nori simultaneously. No fireworks.

But, Pszemol is right. Definitely think about what you want and plan
accordingly to avoid aggression.

--Kurt

thanks for the comments. i only plan on having 4 or 5 fish in my 58g
as i would like to get anemones and coral when the time is right.

anemone ... singular, not plural, and you might want to reconsider
even putting that many in there if this is your first SW tank. They
can be can be problematic and difficult to keep in the long term,
exceedingly so when you mix them with other cnidarians (eg. corals or
even other anemone species/genera). Too many people give up on this
hobby due to early catastrophic failures, and I'd hate to see another
one - I'm sure most other hobbyists would agree.

Sounds like I shoould start with the clownfish i want, or go with a
damsel? i have been considering a talbot damsel.

Honestly, since this is your first SW tank, a clownfish or lesser
aggressive damsel is an excellent choice. Down the road when your tank
is matured and you're ready for a new challenge you can always swap
the clownfish out for something more exotic and put it in a small,
dedicated 20g or 30g tank with your first anemone (they are much
easier to keep in a species-only or dedicated system)

are there any issues you've heard about keeping blennies and gobies
together? i expect that have similar habitat needs. and gobies can get
alot bigger (in my field experience, anyway).

In a tank that size I'd say you'd stand a good chance of seeing some
aggression if you add a blenny and a goby (or even 2 blennies/ 2
gobies) so do some careful research before purchasing and careful
monitoring after adding the fish. Also be aware that many benthic
dwelling (sand-dwelling) fish have specific substrate needs and can
also topple rocks that aren't secured properly by digging the sand out
from under them.

Good luck and welcome to the hobby - and my condolences to your
wallet!