First fish suggestions...

Dr. Thompson wrote on 6/27/2007 1:02 PM:
anemone ... singular, not plural, and you might want to reconsider
even putting that many in there if this is your first SW tank. They
can be can be problematic and difficult to keep in the long term,
exceedingly so when you mix them with other cnidarians (eg. corals or
even other anemone species/genera). Too many people give up on this
hobby due to early catastrophic failures, and I'd hate to see another
one - I'm sure most other hobbyists would agree.

Anemone are not what a person should start out with,
but the main reason most people fail with them, is
because they don't give them enough light. Often
Aquarium stores will mislead customers into thinking
that they don't need much light in order to make
more sales.

Honestly, since this is your first SW tank, a clownfish or lesser
aggressive damsel is an excellent choice. Down the road when your tank
is matured and you're ready for a new challenge you can always swap
the clownfish out for something more exotic

People setting up a reef tank, don't swap clown fish
out for something more exotic. About the only time
people swap clown fish out, is if they get one of
the more aggressive clowns, like tomato, or maroon.
About the only time people swap an ocellaris out is
if they are going with bigger fish, but such bigger
fish don't fit well in a reef tank.

Also be aware that many benthic
dwelling (sand-dwelling) fish have specific substrate needs and can
also topple rocks that aren't secured properly by digging the sand out
from under them.

Yep, so many people don't think about this when they
set up a reef tank. Before you stack rock, you
should always put base rock on the glass with the
sand around it, and then stack the rock on top of
the base rock, because many fish and things will dig
the sand out of under the rock, and it's not a
matter of if, but a matter of when.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets

Wayne Sallee wrote:


Anemone are not what a person should start out with, but the main reason
most people fail with them, is because they don't give them enough
light. Often Aquarium stores will mislead customers into thinking that
they don't need much light in order to make more sales.


Well I'm happy to report that my LFS is one of those that advises
against buying anenomes without sufficient light.....although my T5s on
the current tank could well be enough I am still cautious....I have some
hard corals doing really well but.....well.....if I lose an anenome it
will be bad for my water quality....



People setting up a reef tank, don't swap clown fish out for something
more exotic. About the only time people swap clown fish out, is if they
get one of the more aggressive clowns, like tomato, or maroon. About the
only time people swap an ocellaris out is if they are going with bigger
fish, but such bigger fish don't fit well in a reef tank.


My common clowns are great but I haven't mixed them with other fish
yet....they did decapitate my tube worm though.....I'm in the process of
moving them into the bigger tank and I am still thinking anenome in
spite of the above reservations....



Also be aware that many benthic
dwelling (sand-dwelling) fish have specific substrate needs and can
also topple rocks that aren't secured properly by digging the sand out
from under them.


Yep, so many people don't think about this when they set up a reef tank.
Before you stack rock, you should always put base rock on the glass with
the sand around it, and then stack the rock on top of the base rock,
because many fish and things will dig the sand out of under the rock,
and it's not a matter of if, but a matter of when.

I agree with you here.....not too much reef experience but my Mbunas are
certainly good at destabilising rock structures....I took the lessons
learnt onto my reef tank....

FWIW my new tank started with 6 green chromis (pretty hardy) - since
then I have added 2 bengaii cardinals and will be moving my clowns
across......I'm also planning on a coral beauty and also a yellow tang
to munch on the algae.....

I'm new to reef (since last Sept) but have kept freshwater for a number
of years....my philosophy is to tackle problems naturally so if I have
algae I buy an algae eater.......the clean up crew do a great job on
some of the stuff but a fish will do it better IMO

Gill


Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets

On Jun 27, 3:47 pm, Gill Passman wrote:
Wayne Sallee wrote:

Anemone are not what a person should start out with, but the main reason
most people fail with them, is because they don't give them enough
light. Often Aquarium stores will mislead customers into thinking that
they don't need much light in order to make more sales.

Well I'm happy to report that my LFS is one of those that advises
against buying anenomes without sufficient light.....although my T5s on
the current tank could well be enough I am still cautious....I have some
hard corals doing really well but.....well.....if I lose an anenome it
will be bad for my water quality....



People setting up a reef tank, don't swap clown fish out for something
more exotic. About the only time people swap clown fish out, is if they
get one of the more aggressive clowns, like tomato, or maroon. About the
only time people swap an ocellaris out is if they are going with bigger
fish, but such bigger fish don't fit well in a reef tank.

My common clowns are great but I haven't mixed them with other fish
yet....they did decapitate my tube worm though.....I'm in the process of
moving them into the bigger tank and I am still thinking anenome in
spite of the above reservations....

Also be aware that many benthic
dwelling (sand-dwelling) fish have specific substrate needs and can
also topple rocks that aren't secured properly by digging the sand out
from under them.

Yep, so many people don't think about this when they set up a reef tank.
Before you stack rock, you should always put base rock on the glass with
the sand around it, and then stack the rock on top of the base rock,
because many fish and things will dig the sand out of under the rock,
and it's not a matter of if, but a matter of when.

I agree with you here.....not too much reef experience but my Mbunas are
certainly good at destabilising rock structures....I took the lessons
learnt onto my reef tank....

FWIW my new tank started with 6 green chromis (pretty hardy) - since
then I have added 2 bengaii cardinals and will be moving my clowns
across......I'm also planning on a coral beauty and also a yellow tang
to munch on the algae.....

I'm new to reef (since last Sept) but have kept freshwater for a number
of years....my philosophy is to tackle problems naturally so if I have
algae I buy an algae eater.......the clean up crew do a great job on
some of the stuff but a fish will do it better IMO

Gill





Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets
- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

i was not planning on adding anemones untill my tank has matured a
little. maybe after 6 months-a year.
but, out of curiosity would T5 HO lights be good enough.
george patterson seems skeptical.

i have 2x 10,00k daylights and 2x 460nm actinics.

if they are not good enough, or only good for certain types or
species, it would be good to know.

as an aside, wayne, you mentioned the comment about base rock on my
first post on here over a month ago, and i heeded that advice.
base rock, then live rock, then sand. hope it works!!

i am not planning on switching out any fish. whatever i add should
live its natural course i hope.

Basically you want to aim 3 to 6 watts of light per
gallon. 3 being ok to and extent for anemones, but I
would aim closer to 5 watts per gallon. A little
more light does not hurt, and it gives them more
vigor. Also keep in mind that some anemones like
more light than others. A lot of anemones like to
put their foot in the shade, and bloom out into the
light.

You also count actinics as part of the watts per gallon.

Yes T5 HO lights are good lights.


Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


Aroon wrote on 6/27/2007 7:08 PM:
i was not planning on adding anemones untill my tank has matured a
little. maybe after 6 months-a year.
but, out of curiosity would T5 HO lights be good enough.
george patterson seems skeptical.

i have 2x 10,00k daylights and 2x 460nm actinics.

if they are not good enough, or only good for certain types or
species, it would be good to know.

as an aside, wayne, you mentioned the comment about base rock on my
first post on here over a month ago, and i heeded that advice.
base rock, then live rock, then sand. hope it works!!

i am not planning on switching out any fish. whatever i add should
live its natural course i hope.

Your lack of knowledge on how the Nitrogen cycle works is legendary in this
forum.
I am not going to argue with such a person. I felt tempted to give you the
necessary information to answer your ignorance but, heck, I charge people
for that. Read more and get out of Wayne's World for a change.
iy
"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message
...
I understood your post perfectly. You said

"The best
way to get rid of unwanted nitrogen in your tank is to harvest algae
manually not to have the vegetarians turn them back into the cycle."

It's too bad that you have not realized that the algae grazers' poop helps
encourage denitrification in the sand bed. And helps to feed the fauna in
the sand bed.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


Inabón Yunes wrote on 6/26/2007 8:20 PM:
You misunderstood my post, as usual...
Read again his question and my answer.
I know, I know, you are slow but, what can we do?
Actually, read the subject of this post, poor Wayne.
iy
"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message
...
Having algae eaters in the aquarium is good. The more you can make the
aquarium work for you, the better. The idea of not putting algae eaters
in an aquarium so that you can remove the algae yourself is absurd. If
one wants to set up a refugium set that up for the purpose of algae
extract, that's find and dandy, but not putting algae eaters in the reef
tank so that you can manually remove the algae is absurd.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


Inabón Yunes wrote on 6/25/2007 9:29 PM:
In following replies to your post the Lawnmower Blenny was suggested
but after a few years experimenting with controling nitrates naturaly
in my tank, I found that vegetarians contribute more to increase levels
of nitrates in your tank.
You see, the nitrogen cycle changes ammonnia to nitrites, both toxic,
then the nitrites get transformed to nitrates. On this stage is when
nitrogen is less toxic and easily absorbed by algae. If a Blenny is to
eat the algae, it gets transformed again to Ammonnia and the cycle
starts again. The best way to get rid of unwanted nitrogen in your
tank is to harvest algae manually not to have the vegetarians turn them
back into the cycle.
Blennies are great fish and will eat almost any flake food. I have to
keep a refugium where I extract the algae myself.
Another sturdy species is the Clarks Clownfish.

iy
"Aroon" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi,

I was wondering whether anyone has a suggestion for a cool first fish
to add to my sal****er tank.

This is my first SW tank, having kept small and big fw tanks all my
life. Tank cycled for a month, and i started added critters last week.

The current inhabitats are hermit crabs (10 red legged), snails (1
turbo and 5 bumble bee), and an Emerald crab.
I had a surge of algae a week after my tank finished cycling, and am
trying to get this under control with these cleaners. I would like to
add fish soon.

My near-term goal (next 6-months) is to add 1 clown fish, 1 goby, and
1 six line wrasse.

I thought it would be a good idea to start with a reasonably priced,
hardy fish to start.

I have 50 lbs of live rock in a 58g. all my nitrogen params are
stable, and where they should be.

Temp is 82, ph 8.4, alk 2.6, calcium 450.

If you have any suggestions, I would be interested in hearing friom
you.

Thanks, Aroon

You'r an idiot.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


Inabón Yunes wrote on 6/27/2007 10:40 PM:
Your lack of knowledge on how the Nitrogen cycle works is legendary in this
forum.
I am not going to argue with such a person. I felt tempted to give you the
necessary information to answer your ignorance but, heck, I charge people
for that. Read more and get out of Wayne's World for a change.
iy
"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message
...
I understood your post perfectly. You said

"The best
way to get rid of unwanted nitrogen in your tank is to harvest algae
manually not to have the vegetarians turn them back into the cycle."

It's too bad that you have not realized that the algae grazers' poop helps
encourage denitrification in the sand bed. And helps to feed the fauna in
the sand bed.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


Inabón Yunes wrote on 6/26/2007 8:20 PM:
You misunderstood my post, as usual...
Read again his question and my answer.
I know, I know, you are slow but, what can we do?
Actually, read the subject of this post, poor Wayne.
iy
"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message
...
Having algae eaters in the aquarium is good. The more you can make the
aquarium work for you, the better. The idea of not putting algae eaters
in an aquarium so that you can remove the algae yourself is absurd. If
one wants to set up a refugium set that up for the purpose of algae
extract, that's find and dandy, but not putting algae eaters in the reef
tank so that you can manually remove the algae is absurd.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


Inabón Yunes wrote on 6/25/2007 9:29 PM:
In following replies to your post the Lawnmower Blenny was suggested
but after a few years experimenting with controling nitrates naturaly
in my tank, I found that vegetarians contribute more to increase levels
of nitrates in your tank.
You see, the nitrogen cycle changes ammonnia to nitrites, both toxic,
then the nitrites get transformed to nitrates. On this stage is when
nitrogen is less toxic and easily absorbed by algae. If a Blenny is to
eat the algae, it gets transformed again to Ammonnia and the cycle
starts again. The best way to get rid of unwanted nitrogen in your
tank is to harvest algae manually not to have the vegetarians turn them
back into the cycle.
Blennies are great fish and will eat almost any flake food. I have to
keep a refugium where I extract the algae myself.
Another sturdy species is the Clarks Clownfish.

iy
"Aroon" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi,

I was wondering whether anyone has a suggestion for a cool first fish
to add to my sal****er tank.

This is my first SW tank, having kept small and big fw tanks all my
life. Tank cycled for a month, and i started added critters last week.

The current inhabitats are hermit crabs (10 red legged), snails (1
turbo and 5 bumble bee), and an Emerald crab.
I had a surge of algae a week after my tank finished cycling, and am
trying to get this under control with these cleaners. I would like to
add fish soon.

My near-term goal (next 6-months) is to add 1 clown fish, 1 goby, and
1 six line wrasse.

I thought it would be a good idea to start with a reasonably priced,
hardy fish to start.

I have 50 lbs of live rock in a 58g. all my nitrogen params are
stable, and where they should be.

Temp is 82, ph 8.4, alk 2.6, calcium 450.

If you have any suggestions, I would be interested in hearing friom
you.

Thanks, Aroon

Stop talking to the man in the mirror!
iy
"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message
...
You'r an idiot.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


Inabón Yunes wrote on 6/27/2007 10:40 PM:
Your lack of knowledge on how the Nitrogen cycle works is legendary in
this forum.
I am not going to argue with such a person. I felt tempted to give you
the necessary information to answer your ignorance but, heck, I charge
people for that. Read more and get out of Wayne's World for a change.
iy
"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message
...
I understood your post perfectly. You said

"The best
way to get rid of unwanted nitrogen in your tank is to harvest algae
manually not to have the vegetarians turn them back into the cycle."

It's too bad that you have not realized that the algae grazers' poop
helps encourage denitrification in the sand bed. And helps to feed the
fauna in the sand bed.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


Inabón Yunes wrote on 6/26/2007 8:20 PM:
You misunderstood my post, as usual...
Read again his question and my answer.
I know, I know, you are slow but, what can we do?
Actually, read the subject of this post, poor Wayne.
iy
"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message
...
Having algae eaters in the aquarium is good. The more you can make the
aquarium work for you, the better. The idea of not putting algae
eaters in an aquarium so that you can remove the algae yourself is
absurd. If one wants to set up a refugium set that up for the purpose
of algae extract, that's find and dandy, but not putting algae eaters
in the reef tank so that you can manually remove the algae is absurd.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


Inabón Yunes wrote on 6/25/2007 9:29 PM:
In following replies to your post the Lawnmower Blenny was suggested
but after a few years experimenting with controling nitrates naturaly
in my tank, I found that vegetarians contribute more to increase
levels of nitrates in your tank.
You see, the nitrogen cycle changes ammonnia to nitrites, both toxic,
then the nitrites get transformed to nitrates. On this stage is when
nitrogen is less toxic and easily absorbed by algae. If a Blenny is
to eat the algae, it gets transformed again to Ammonnia and the cycle
starts again. The best way to get rid of unwanted nitrogen in your
tank is to harvest algae manually not to have the vegetarians turn
them back into the cycle.
Blennies are great fish and will eat almost any flake food. I have
to keep a refugium where I extract the algae myself.
Another sturdy species is the Clarks Clownfish.

iy
"Aroon" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi,

I was wondering whether anyone has a suggestion for a cool first
fish
to add to my sal****er tank.

This is my first SW tank, having kept small and big fw tanks all my
life. Tank cycled for a month, and i started added critters last
week.

The current inhabitats are hermit crabs (10 red legged), snails (1
turbo and 5 bumble bee), and an Emerald crab.
I had a surge of algae a week after my tank finished cycling, and am
trying to get this under control with these cleaners. I would like
to
add fish soon.

My near-term goal (next 6-months) is to add 1 clown fish, 1 goby,
and
1 six line wrasse.

I thought it would be a good idea to start with a reasonably priced,
hardy fish to start.

I have 50 lbs of live rock in a 58g. all my nitrogen params are
stable, and where they should be.

Temp is 82, ph 8.4, alk 2.6, calcium 450.

If you have any suggestions, I would be interested in hearing friom
you.

Thanks, Aroon

Subject says it all

yep he is.
That sed though
the suggestion of chromis was a good one.
I like the blues myself
lose the odd one to other fish eating them
But they are nice and subtle and compared to damsels they are gents!


"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message
...
You'r an idiot.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


Inabón Yunes wrote on 6/27/2007 10:40 PM:
Your lack of knowledge on how the Nitrogen cycle works is legendary in
this forum.
I am not going to argue with such a person. I felt tempted to give you
the necessary information to answer your ignorance but, heck, I charge
people for that. Read more and get out of Wayne's World for a change.
iy
"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message
...
I understood your post perfectly. You said

"The best
way to get rid of unwanted nitrogen in your tank is to harvest algae
manually not to have the vegetarians turn them back into the cycle."

It's too bad that you have not realized that the algae grazers' poop
helps encourage denitrification in the sand bed. And helps to feed the
fauna in the sand bed.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


Inabón Yunes wrote on 6/26/2007 8:20 PM:
You misunderstood my post, as usual...
Read again his question and my answer.
I know, I know, you are slow but, what can we do?
Actually, read the subject of this post, poor Wayne.
iy
"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message
...
Having algae eaters in the aquarium is good. The more you can make the
aquarium work for you, the better. The idea of not putting algae
eaters in an aquarium so that you can remove the algae yourself is
absurd. If one wants to set up a refugium set that up for the purpose
of algae extract, that's find and dandy, but not putting algae eaters
in the reef tank so that you can manually remove the algae is absurd.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


Inabón Yunes wrote on 6/25/2007 9:29 PM:
In following replies to your post the Lawnmower Blenny was suggested
but after a few years experimenting with controling nitrates naturaly
in my tank, I found that vegetarians contribute more to increase
levels of nitrates in your tank.
You see, the nitrogen cycle changes ammonnia to nitrites, both toxic,
then the nitrites get transformed to nitrates. On this stage is when
nitrogen is less toxic and easily absorbed by algae. If a Blenny is
to eat the algae, it gets transformed again to Ammonnia and the cycle
starts again. The best way to get rid of unwanted nitrogen in your
tank is to harvest algae manually not to have the vegetarians turn
them back into the cycle.
Blennies are great fish and will eat almost any flake food. I have
to keep a refugium where I extract the algae myself.
Another sturdy species is the Clarks Clownfish.

iy
"Aroon" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi,

I was wondering whether anyone has a suggestion for a cool first
fish
to add to my sal****er tank.

This is my first SW tank, having kept small and big fw tanks all my
life. Tank cycled for a month, and i started added critters last
week.

The current inhabitats are hermit crabs (10 red legged), snails (1
turbo and 5 bumble bee), and an Emerald crab.
I had a surge of algae a week after my tank finished cycling, and am
trying to get this under control with these cleaners. I would like
to
add fish soon.

My near-term goal (next 6-months) is to add 1 clown fish, 1 goby,
and
1 six line wrasse.

I thought it would be a good idea to start with a reasonably priced,
hardy fish to start.

I have 50 lbs of live rock in a 58g. all my nitrogen params are
stable, and where they should be.

Temp is 82, ph 8.4, alk 2.6, calcium 450.

If you have any suggestions, I would be interested in hearing friom
you.

Thanks, Aroon

Yea, I like the chromis too. They are a lower
aggressive damsel.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


swarvegorilla wrote on 7/2/2007 11:37 AM:
yep he is.
That sed though
the suggestion of chromis was a good one.
I like the blues myself
lose the odd one to other fish eating them
But they are nice and subtle and compared to damsels they are gents!


"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message
...
You'r an idiot.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


Inabón Yunes wrote on 6/27/2007 10:40 PM:
Your lack of knowledge on how the Nitrogen cycle works is legendary in
this forum.
I am not going to argue with such a person. I felt tempted to give you
the necessary information to answer your ignorance but, heck, I charge
people for that. Read more and get out of Wayne's World for a change.
iy
"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message
...
I understood your post perfectly. You said

"The best
way to get rid of unwanted nitrogen in your tank is to harvest algae
manually not to have the vegetarians turn them back into the cycle."

It's too bad that you have not realized that the algae grazers' poop
helps encourage denitrification in the sand bed. And helps to feed the
fauna in the sand bed.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


Inabón Yunes wrote on 6/26/2007 8:20 PM:
You misunderstood my post, as usual...
Read again his question and my answer.
I know, I know, you are slow but, what can we do?
Actually, read the subject of this post, poor Wayne.
iy
"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message
...
Having algae eaters in the aquarium is good. The more you can make the
aquarium work for you, the better. The idea of not putting algae
eaters in an aquarium so that you can remove the algae yourself is
absurd. If one wants to set up a refugium set that up for the purpose
of algae extract, that's find and dandy, but not putting algae eaters
in the reef tank so that you can manually remove the algae is absurd.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


Inabón Yunes wrote on 6/25/2007 9:29 PM:
In following replies to your post the Lawnmower Blenny was suggested
but after a few years experimenting with controling nitrates naturaly
in my tank, I found that vegetarians contribute more to increase
levels of nitrates in your tank.
You see, the nitrogen cycle changes ammonnia to nitrites, both toxic,
then the nitrites get transformed to nitrates. On this stage is when
nitrogen is less toxic and easily absorbed by algae. If a Blenny is
to eat the algae, it gets transformed again to Ammonnia and the cycle
starts again. The best way to get rid of unwanted nitrogen in your
tank is to harvest algae manually not to have the vegetarians turn
them back into the cycle.
Blennies are great fish and will eat almost any flake food. I have
to keep a refugium where I extract the algae myself.
Another sturdy species is the Clarks Clownfish.

iy
"Aroon" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi,

I was wondering whether anyone has a suggestion for a cool first
fish
to add to my sal****er tank.

This is my first SW tank, having kept small and big fw tanks all my
life. Tank cycled for a month, and i started added critters last
week.

The current inhabitats are hermit crabs (10 red legged), snails (1
turbo and 5 bumble bee), and an Emerald crab.
I had a surge of algae a week after my tank finished cycling, and am
trying to get this under control with these cleaners. I would like
to
add fish soon.

My near-term goal (next 6-months) is to add 1 clown fish, 1 goby,
and
1 six line wrasse.

I thought it would be a good idea to start with a reasonably priced,
hardy fish to start.

I have 50 lbs of live rock in a 58g. all my nitrogen params are
stable, and where they should be.

Temp is 82, ph 8.4, alk 2.6, calcium 450.

If you have any suggestions, I would be interested in hearing friom
you.

Thanks, Aroon