Starting a reef tank

Its not that all LFS's are out to screw you, but...

They are (generally) not reefkeepers themselves, and only need to know
enough to keep their livestock until it is sold. It is rare to find
an expert LFS that is a reeftaker, and trusting their advise implicity
may lead to problems. The LFS may give you advice in good faith, but
that still doesn't mean that he is giving you truly knowledgeable or
good advice. Generally these gusy just don't know much and as they
say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 12:59:15 -0000, Big Habeeb
wrote:

Don,
Definitely appreciate the feedback...but I just want to clarify a
couple of things. I HAVE kept sal****er tanks before, just not reef,
so I'm aware of which clowns should and shouldn't be mixed. I also
have a reliable LFS whom I trust IMPLICITLY...no offense to the
posters here, but as I don't know any of you really, I would trust the
LFS over any advice that I receive here (again, I trust this shop and
don't think he'd try and screw me to make a buck...if he did, he'd
lose my freshwater business, the frys of cichs that I am now bringing
to him, and my business of buying supplies for my cats, dog, and
snake). I spoke with him last night when I stopped in to pick up the
r/o di unit, and he also recommended NOT bringing an anemone into the
picture, though his reasoning had more to do with not killing off
other corals, than it did for the sake of the anemone itself.

The truth is, I am in NO rush to get this up and running. This is a
long term project, not a quick 'up and attem' that I've done sometimes
setting up cichlid tanks for others. I know that cichs are far
'tougher' to environmental changes than most of the sal****er
creatures I'll be looking at...and I also know that there are animals
and plants considered "easy, medium, and hard" to keep successfully.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I once kept a moorish idol,
certainly considered by most to be a fairly difficult fish to get to
thrive in captivity.

My plan right now is to start very, VERY slowly. This weekend's goal
is to accomplish a couple of things:
1. Get the tank set up, complete with filtration, skimmer, refugarium,
powerheads, heater, lights etc. Basically everything that I have so
far.
2. Get the substrate in...I plan on using standard non live sand, but
I will be buying from the LFS, not from home depot as recommended in
an earlier post. For the slight difference in price, I'm willing to
take my LFS's word for it that his sand will cause fewer issues than
sandbox type sand.
3. Get the water in, with the proper salt mix.
4. After allowing to run for a bit, use my test kit to see what the
water looks like in its 'stock' state with no livestock. That way
I'll know if my r/o unit is working correctly, and if there's anything
weird about my local water that I need to be aware of. At this point
I'm not fully 'reefed' yet, so if it turns out my water is funky, I
can still change over and just do a fish only tank (which would be
disappointing, but I'm not going to fight a losing battle of forcing
something to try to live in water it simply can't live in).

That's literally ALL I have planned for this weekend. Once I'm
confident that things are running as they're supposed to, I will be
visiting the LFS again (likely NEXT weekend) to pick up a combination
of uncured live rock and dried corals. I'll use the dry corals in the
bank to setup a base (since they won't be seen) and then stack the
live rock appropriately, remembering that I need to make sure the
rocks are touching the bottom of the tank, not sitting on top of my
substrate. Once THAT is done, I'm done for a couple of weeks. I'll
monitor the water quality daily, again using the test kid, and see how
well it starts cycling. I have no intention of rushing in to stocking
the tank with other corals or fish. As far as I'm concerned, it can
sit in this state for months, if needbe (and yes, from all I've read,
I know a couple weeks should be sufficient).

I really do plan on taking my time with this. I know from experience
that first time aquarium keepers biggest error is typically rushing
too much stuff into their tank. I've built small fish-only salt water
environments for other people, and watched them DESTROY hundreds of
dollars worth of livestock by not cycling properly, or by overstocking
a tank. The people who listen, and wait, and are patient typically
have far more success. I myself DID screw up my first freshwater
tank, overstocked, and watched as the fish died one by one. This is
not a mistake I will ever repeat.

As for the question of anemones, I would eventually like to add one,
but this is way, way, WAY down the line once I'm comfortable: with
both the process and my setup, keeping in mind this is my first time
using an overflow and refugium...a large departure from hanging
filtration or even the cannisters I'm used to.

I hope that sets everyone's mind at ease that, while not THE most
educated person on reef keeping, I am fortunately not an idiot
either...and in fact am reading "the new marine aquarium" as we speak.

Mitch

On Sep 27, 7:26 pm, Don Geddis wrote:
"Pszemol" wrote on Wed, 26 Sep 2007:

"Don Geddis" wrote in ...
Fortunately, clowns do just fine in tanks with no sea anemones. So get the
clowns -- but hold off on the sea anemones.

Or... get the books I recomended, educate yourself and then it will be easy
to not only keep clowns in a healthy anemone but with no problems have them
mate and lay eggs every two weeks like mine maroons do.

You're talking to a poster who has never had a sal****er tank before,
certainly never even raised corals.

You take a bunch of random guys off the street. Give them their very first
sal****er tank. For one group, give them only some clownfish in the tank.
For another group, give them clownfish and a host sea anemone.

You wanna have two guesses which group is going to wind up with more
livestock deaths?

Compared to sea anemones, fish (esp. clownfish) are FAR more resilient to
great variations in: temperate, water quality, salinity, lighting, getting
caught in filters/overflows, etc.

Yes, it's POSSIBLE to raise sea anemones (and I've done it too). But it's
irresponsible to recommend that to a brand-new reefkeeper. Especially if you
imply that it's just as "easy" keeping anemones as it is to keep clownfish.

That's just false.

It's possible, but it's not nearly as easy. If things start to go wrong in
your tank, it's the anemone that's going to die first, not the clownfish.

Anemones are just very different animals than these we are used to in our
terrestial lives. So unless you read about their needs, understand how
their body functions - yes, you will kill anemones easily... But this is
not a reason to not keep them - different does not mean they are difficult!

Clownfish live in the ocean too. But are far, far easier to keep alive than
anemones are.

They are different and this is a perfect reason to educate yourself, do
some reading from trusted sources about host anemones and than you will
have all the tools you need to keep a helthy one.

I know how to keep a healthy sea anemone. I still wouldn't recommend it to
a brand new first-time reefkeeper. And you shouldn't either.

Keeping a single clownfish in a tank with other fish is kind of cruel in my
view - these are social fish and are best kept in pairs (Maroons) or small
groups (any other types, including your well known "Nemo").

Recall that we're talking to somebody who knows nothing. Getting "a
clownfish" will work just fine. Getting "a bunch of clownfish" may or may
not. Is he going to mix species, or can he tell them apart? Will he get all
juveniles? Put a pair of female maroons in the same small tank and they'll
kill each other. Put a maroon in with a different species, and the maroon
will probably kill the other clown. Etc.

Yes, all this is possible, if you learn the details. But why make things
difficult for a guy buying his very first fish?

Single clownfish in a tank with other bigger fish will be stressed.

I don't believe you. Proof?

Of course, any small fish will be stressed in a tank with bigger aggressive
fish. But I don't think there's anything special about clowns that requires
them in groups. Any more than any other fish which is usually found in
groups in nature.

-- Don
__________________________________________________ _________________________*____
Don Geddis http://reef.geddis.org/
And so the Russian people made do on whatever ration of rice and suet the
stores were handing out to the people waiting in the interminable lines in
the dark and the snow that week; they went to sleep hungry and malnourished
but much cheered by the certainty that no greedy capitalists were making
obscene profits by actually delivering them any chicken.

On Sep 28, 4:12 pm, gaijin wrote:
Its not that all LFS's are out to screw you, but...

They are (generally) not reefkeepers themselves, and only need to know
enough to keep their livestock until it is sold. It is rare to find
an expert LFS that is a reeftaker, and trusting their advise implicity
may lead to problems. The LFS may give you advice in good faith, but
that still doesn't mean that he is giving you truly knowledgeable or
good advice. Generally these gusy just don't know much and as they
say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 12:59:15 -0000, Big Habeeb



wrote:
Don,
Definitely appreciate the feedback...but I just want to clarify a
couple of things. I HAVE kept sal****er tanks before, just not reef,
so I'm aware of which clowns should and shouldn't be mixed. I also
have a reliable LFS whom I trust IMPLICITLY...no offense to the
posters here, but as I don't know any of you really, I would trust the
LFS over any advice that I receive here (again, I trust this shop and
don't think he'd try and screw me to make a buck...if he did, he'd
lose my freshwater business, the frys of cichs that I am now bringing
to him, and my business of buying supplies for my cats, dog, and
snake). I spoke with him last night when I stopped in to pick up the
r/o di unit, and he also recommended NOT bringing an anemone into the
picture, though his reasoning had more to do with not killing off
other corals, than it did for the sake of the anemone itself.

The truth is, I am in NO rush to get this up and running. This is a
long term project, not a quick 'up and attem' that I've done sometimes
setting up cichlid tanks for others. I know that cichs are far
'tougher' to environmental changes than most of the sal****er
creatures I'll be looking at...and I also know that there are animals
and plants considered "easy, medium, and hard" to keep successfully.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I once kept a moorish idol,
certainly considered by most to be a fairly difficult fish to get to
thrive in captivity.

My plan right now is to start very, VERY slowly. This weekend's goal
is to accomplish a couple of things:
1. Get the tank set up, complete with filtration, skimmer, refugarium,
powerheads, heater, lights etc. Basically everything that I have so
far.
2. Get the substrate in...I plan on using standard non live sand, but
I will be buying from the LFS, not from home depot as recommended in
an earlier post. For the slight difference in price, I'm willing to
take my LFS's word for it that his sand will cause fewer issues than
sandbox type sand.
3. Get the water in, with the proper salt mix.
4. After allowing to run for a bit, use my test kit to see what the
water looks like in its 'stock' state with no livestock. That way
I'll know if my r/o unit is working correctly, and if there's anything
weird about my local water that I need to be aware of. At this point
I'm not fully 'reefed' yet, so if it turns out my water is funky, I
can still change over and just do a fish only tank (which would be
disappointing, but I'm not going to fight a losing battle of forcing
something to try to live in water it simply can't live in).

That's literally ALL I have planned for this weekend. Once I'm
confident that things are running as they're supposed to, I will be
visiting the LFS again (likely NEXT weekend) to pick up a combination
of uncured live rock and dried corals. I'll use the dry corals in the
bank to setup a base (since they won't be seen) and then stack the
live rock appropriately, remembering that I need to make sure the
rocks are touching the bottom of the tank, not sitting on top of my
substrate. Once THAT is done, I'm done for a couple of weeks. I'll
monitor the water quality daily, again using the test kid, and see how
well it starts cycling. I have no intention of rushing in to stocking
the tank with other corals or fish. As far as I'm concerned, it can
sit in this state for months, if needbe (and yes, from all I've read,
I know a couple weeks should be sufficient).

I really do plan on taking my time with this. I know from experience
that first time aquarium keepers biggest error is typically rushing
too much stuff into their tank. I've built small fish-only salt water
environments for other people, and watched them DESTROY hundreds of
dollars worth of livestock by not cycling properly, or by overstocking
a tank. The people who listen, and wait, and are patient typically
have far more success. I myself DID screw up my first freshwater
tank, overstocked, and watched as the fish died one by one. This is
not a mistake I will ever repeat.

As for the question of anemones, I would eventually like to add one,
but this is way, way, WAY down the line once I'm comfortable: with
both the process and my setup, keeping in mind this is my first time
using an overflow and refugium...a large departure from hanging
filtration or even the cannisters I'm used to.

I hope that sets everyone's mind at ease that, while not THE most
educated person on reef keeping, I am fortunately not an idiot
either...and in fact am reading "the new marine aquarium" as we speak.

Mitch

On Sep 27, 7:26 pm, Don Geddis wrote:
"Pszemol" wrote on Wed, 26 Sep 2007:

"Don Geddis" wrote in ...
Fortunately, clowns do just fine in tanks with no sea anemones. So get the
clowns -- but hold off on the sea anemones.

Or... get the books I recomended, educate yourself and then it will be easy
to not only keep clowns in a healthy anemone but with no problems have them
mate and lay eggs every two weeks like mine maroons do.

You're talking to a poster who has never had a sal****er tank before,
certainly never even raised corals.

You take a bunch of random guys off the street. Give them their very first
sal****er tank. For one group, give them only some clownfish in the tank.
For another group, give them clownfish and a host sea anemone.

You wanna have two guesses which group is going to wind up with more
livestock deaths?

Compared to sea anemones, fish (esp. clownfish) are FAR more resilient to
great variations in: temperate, water quality, salinity, lighting, getting
caught in filters/overflows, etc.

Yes, it's POSSIBLE to raise sea anemones (and I've done it too). But it's
irresponsible to recommend that to a brand-new reefkeeper. Especially if you
imply that it's just as "easy" keeping anemones as it is to keep clownfish.

That's just false.

It's possible, but it's not nearly as easy. If things start to go wrong in
your tank, it's the anemone that's going to die first, not the clownfish.

Anemones are just very different animals than these we are used to in our
terrestial lives. So unless you read about their needs, understand how
their body functions - yes, you will kill anemones easily... But this is
not a reason to not keep them - different does not mean they are difficult!

Clownfish live in the ocean too. But are far, far easier to keep alive than
anemones are.

They are different and this is a perfect reason to educate yourself, do
some reading from trusted sources about host anemones and than you will
have all the tools you need to keep a helthy one.

I know how to keep a healthy sea anemone. I still wouldn't recommend it to
a brand new first-time reefkeeper. And you shouldn't either.

Keeping a single clownfish in a tank with other fish is kind of cruel in my
view - these are social fish and are best kept in pairs (Maroons) or small
groups (any other types, including your well known "Nemo").

Recall that we're talking to somebody who knows nothing. Getting "a
clownfish" will work just fine. Getting "a bunch of clownfish" may or may
not. Is he going to mix species, or can he tell them apart? Will he get all
juveniles? Put a pair of female maroons in the same small tank and they'll
kill each other. Put a maroon in with a different species, and the maroon
will probably kill the other clown. Etc.

Yes, all this is possible, if you learn the details. But why make things
difficult for a guy buying his very first fish?

Single clownfish in a tank with other bigger fish will be stressed.

I don't believe you. Proof?

Of course, any small fish will be stressed in a tank with bigger aggressive
fish. But I don't think there's anything special about clowns that requires
them in groups. Any more than any other fish which is usually found in
groups in nature.

-- Don
__________________________________________________ _________________________**____
Don Geddis http://reef.geddis.org/
And so the Russian people made do on whatever ration of rice and suet the
stores were handing out to the people waiting in the interminable lines in
the dark and the snow that week; they went to sleep hungry and malnourished
but much cheered by the certainty that no greedy capitalists were making
obscene profits by actually delivering them any chicken.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Gaijin,
I'm lucky - the LFS I do most of my business with (Pet Shanty in
Scotch Plains, NJ) has not one, but 3 guys who practice what they
preach. They're all knowledgable, and in fact have several tanks that
are of the 'not for sale' variety in the store, to show off their
abilities (they have a TREMENDOUS 30 year old coral named 'steve' in a
tank by the front of the store). There's another one a little ways up
the road who I trust somewhat, but honestly will not be going there
for livestock. I trust them enough to buy equipment, but beyond that
they seem somewhat shady...willing to tell you that just about
anything is OK to make a sale (they're the ones who originally had me
put a moorish idol in my tank). I've used them for most of the
equipment I purchased, owing to better prices, but any live rock,
fish, coral etc will be purchased from the first shop I mentioned.
The fact that they do have 'keeper' tanks helps set my mind at ease
that they do know what they are doing...and while it's unlikely I'll
have all the 'best' equipment as these tanks likely do, I still trust
that they won't send me in the wrong direction completely. As I
mentioned previously, I take care of all of my various pets from this
shop (cats, dog, snake, cichlids), and while they do well with the
other stuff, fish and sal****er in particular is where they really,
really shine.

Mitch

gaijin wrote:
Its not that all LFS's are out to screw you, but...

They are (generally) not reefkeepers themselves, and only need to know
enough to keep their livestock until it is sold. It is rare to find
an expert LFS that is a reeftaker, and trusting their advise implicity
may lead to problems. The LFS may give you advice in good faith, but
that still doesn't mean that he is giving you truly knowledgeable or
good advice. Generally these gusy just don't know much and as they
say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

I find this very sad and every time I read this on the groups it makes
me more and more thankful for the quality of expertise that I get in the
LFS's that I go to.......for example I went into one of them this week
when it was quiet and got the following different questions from 4
members of staff with genuine interest and good advice:

1. How's the reef going?

2. How's the pond developing?

3. How are the community fish doing?

4. How are the Mbunas?

And then when I was taking the RO water out to the car (and yes I'm
buying my own unit in the next couple of months) - OK the person I
coerced to take it to the car for me, started talking about Discus
(another project I'm embarking on) - he breeds them and gave me some
great tips all of which are backed up by my research....

They employ at least 4 staff who have their own reef tanks and all of
their staff keep fish themselves......and are employed for their
specialist knowledge - they are expected to cross train but you quickly
learn to find those that don't have a true passion for the set ups/fish
they are selling......

Gill

How do the LFS's strings feel when he pulls them?
Are they tight around your arms?
Listen LFS's have only one thing in common, THEY WANT YOUR MONEY and they
will do whatever it takes to EARN YOURS BUSINESS...
iy
"Gill Passman" wrote in message
...
gaijin wrote:
Its not that all LFS's are out to screw you, but...

They are (generally) not reefkeepers themselves, and only need to know
enough to keep their livestock until it is sold. It is rare to find
an expert LFS that is a reeftaker, and trusting their advise implicity
may lead to problems. The LFS may give you advice in good faith, but
that still doesn't mean that he is giving you truly knowledgeable or
good advice. Generally these gusy just don't know much and as they
say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

I find this very sad and every time I read this on the groups it makes me
more and more thankful for the quality of expertise that I get in the
LFS's that I go to.......for example I went into one of them this week
when it was quiet and got the following different questions from 4 members
of staff with genuine interest and good advice:

1. How's the reef going?

2. How's the pond developing?

3. How are the community fish doing?

4. How are the Mbunas?

And then when I was taking the RO water out to the car (and yes I'm buying
my own unit in the next couple of months) - OK the person I coerced to
take it to the car for me, started talking about Discus (another project
I'm embarking on) - he breeds them and gave me some great tips all of
which are backed up by my research....

They employ at least 4 staff who have their own reef tanks and all of
their staff keep fish themselves......and are employed for their
specialist knowledge - they are expected to cross train but you quickly
learn to find those that don't have a true passion for the set ups/fish
they are selling......

Gill

Inabón Yunes wrote:
How do the LFS's strings feel when he pulls them?
Are they tight around your arms?
Listen LFS's have only one thing in common, THEY WANT YOUR MONEY and they
will do whatever it takes to EARN YOURS BUSINESS...
iy

Hmmmmm.....well I would personally prefer to spend my money in a place
that shows an interest, gives good advice service and has healthy well
cared for stock looked after by hobbyists that work in the shop rather
than somewhere that might be cheaper but does not have that level of
customer service.....sure they want my money but I have a choice as to
where I can shop so places with bad, uncaring service from
unknowledgable staff won't get my business......not a matter of string
pulling more a matter of good commercial sense from the LFS

Gill

Hey gang, ok so here's where I stand after tshi weekend (unfortunatley
I did not make my goal of having it up and running with water and
substrate).
I have the tank setup in what will be its final
position...unfortunately I realized too late on Saturday that I didn't
have a good surge strip around to setup all the various bits and
pieces, so tonight I'll pick that up so I can actually get started.
The refugium is setup, all connected to the tank correctly (far as I
can tell, at any rate), so I now have 2 questions:
1. Where should I place the heater? The LFS recommended dropping it
either into the refugium or into hte overflow box...any opinions on
that?

2. Protein skimmer. I have one. It's put together and sitting in my
refugium. A couple things I'm unsure of: the 'waste' tube...where
should that be pointing? The guy at the store said just to stick it
into a soda bottle or something...agree on that? Other
question...where should the power pump go for the skimmer? I have the
pump for the overflow in the 'clean' side of the refugium, but was
unsure where to position the pump for the skimmer...Should it be in
the water in the ref.? Does it matter if it's on the dirty or clean
side?

Thanks again all for the wealth of great advice!
Mitch

"Big Habeeb" wrote in message ups.com...
1. Where should I place the heater? The LFS recommended
dropping it either into the refugium or into hte overflow box...
any opinions on that?

Heater should be located in a place where it will be submerged
properly (check the mark on the heater for minimum water level)
in the water. Most heaters tolerate fully sumberged situation.
Second - it should be located in the place where is a good and
constant water flow to make it work efficiently.
Thrid - it is good to have it concealed from the view, an eye sore :-)

I keep mine in the sump, in the horizontal position.
So mine is fully submerged, it is in very high water flow place
and it is concealed from view. The problem of this location is
that if something happens with the circulation pump moving
water up from the sump to the tank, the tank will stop be heated.

2. Protein skimmer. I have one. It's put together and sitting in my
refugium. A couple things I'm unsure of: the 'waste' tube...where
should that be pointing? The guy at the store said just to stick it
into a soda bottle or something...agree on that?

Waste tube should be pointing to any waste container you imagine.
Soda bottle is good idea, I would use a milk bottle during first
phase of the live rock cycling because your skimmer might
produce a lot of waste during this time.

where should the power pump go for the skimmer? I have the
pump for the overflow in the 'clean' side of the refugium, but was
unsure where to position the pump for the skimmer...Should it be in
the water in the ref.? Does it matter if it's on the dirty or clean
side?

I have no idea what you mean by clean side or dirty side of
the refugium. Refugium is a place inside the reef tank or
outside reef tank where there are no planktonic predators,
so planktonic creatures can develop without predation.
Refugium is then a place where plankton grows and then
water from refugium flows to the main tank commensing
steady feeding process of planktonic creatures to your reef.
Refugium is usually filled with macroalgae because algae
is a perfect substrate for organisms like copepods or
amphipods to live in. Refugium is then lit, preferably in the
opposite lighting phase to the main tank to limit pH drifts
between night and day.

You might be talking about some filter/sump having clean
and dirty side... Skimmer removes dissolved proteins
and other dissolved organic chemicals, so it does not
really matter on which side of the sump.filter it is located.
Note, that sometimes outflow from the skimmer will have
some residue air bubbles, which can migrate through the
circulation pump to the main tank and make water look
cloudy due to the microscopic air bubbles in the water.
For that reason alone it is good to put skimmer in the sump
as early to the water flow as possible to let the water de-gass
freely before it hits the return/circulation pump.

On Oct 1, 10:27 am, "Pszemol" wrote:
"Big Habeeb" wrote in oglegroups.com...
1. Where should I place the heater? The LFS recommended
dropping it either into the refugium or into hte overflow box...
any opinions on that?

Heater should be located in a place where it will be submerged
properly (check the mark on the heater for minimum water level)
in the water. Most heaters tolerate fully sumberged situation.
Second - it should be located in the place where is a good and
constant water flow to make it work efficiently.
Thrid - it is good to have it concealed from the view, an eye sore :-)

I keep mine in the sump, in the horizontal position.
So mine is fully submerged, it is in very high water flow place
and it is concealed from view. The problem of this location is
that if something happens with the circulation pump moving
water up from the sump to the tank, the tank will stop be heated.

2. Protein skimmer. I have one. It's put together and sitting in my
refugium. A couple things I'm unsure of: the 'waste' tube...where
should that be pointing? The guy at the store said just to stick it
into a soda bottle or something...agree on that?

Waste tube should be pointing to any waste container you imagine.
Soda bottle is good idea, I would use a milk bottle during first
phase of the live rock cycling because your skimmer might
produce a lot of waste during this time.

where should the power pump go for the skimmer? I have the
pump for the overflow in the 'clean' side of the refugium, but was
unsure where to position the pump for the skimmer...Should it be in
the water in the ref.? Does it matter if it's on the dirty or clean
side?

I have no idea what you mean by clean side or dirty side of
the refugium. Refugium is a place inside the reef tank or
outside reef tank where there are no planktonic predators,
so planktonic creatures can develop without predation.
Refugium is then a place where plankton grows and then
water from refugium flows to the main tank commensing
steady feeding process of planktonic creatures to your reef.
Refugium is usually filled with macroalgae because algae
is a perfect substrate for organisms like copepods or
amphipods to live in. Refugium is then lit, preferably in the
opposite lighting phase to the main tank to limit pH drifts
between night and day.

You might be talking about some filter/sump having clean
and dirty side... Skimmer removes dissolved proteins
and other dissolved organic chemicals, so it does not
really matter on which side of the sump.filter it is located.
Note, that sometimes outflow from the skimmer will have
some residue air bubbles, which can migrate through the
circulation pump to the main tank and make water look
cloudy due to the microscopic air bubbles in the water.
For that reason alone it is good to put skimmer in the sump
as early to the water flow as possible to let the water de-gass
freely before it hits the return/circulation pump.

I think by refugium I was referring to the sump. I still don't have
all my terminology down, obviously

I appreciate the tips. I think I will put the heater down in the
sump. Skimmer is pretty much setup, just a matter of getting the pump
in now. I'm picking up a surge strip with 4 'always on' ports, and 2
sets of 2 'timed' ports (2 separate timers). That should take care of
my lighting needs for the time being, as well as the various other
"plug us ins" that the system requires. I won't be turning any of it
on, however, until I get some water cranked into the tank...which is
going to take awhile, using the R/O unit and whatnot. I'll keep
everyone updated in this thread as to how it's coming along

Mitch

For the skimmer collection container see
http://www.waynesallee.com/skimmer.jpg
There are 2 holes in the top, one for skimate in,
and one for air out. The carbon helps remove oders.

I recomend two power strips. One for lighting, and
the other for pumps and heater. That way you can
turn one or the other off quickly. Make sure that
they are easily accessible so that you can turn one
or the other off in a flash.

Purchase a submersiable heater, not only are they
better, but salt creap is hard on the nonsubmersable
heaters. and yes, place it in the sump at the bottom
horizontally. The heater might say not to, but do it
anyway. Of course you would not dare do this with a
non-submersable heater :-)

Wayne Sallee




Big Habeeb wrote on 10/1/2007 10:11 AM:
Hey gang, ok so here's where I stand after tshi weekend (unfortunatley
I did not make my goal of having it up and running with water and
substrate).
I have the tank setup in what will be its final
position...unfortunately I realized too late on Saturday that I didn't
have a good surge strip around to setup all the various bits and
pieces, so tonight I'll pick that up so I can actually get started.
The refugium is setup, all connected to the tank correctly (far as I
can tell, at any rate), so I now have 2 questions:
1. Where should I place the heater? The LFS recommended dropping it
either into the refugium or into hte overflow box...any opinions on
that?

2. Protein skimmer. I have one. It's put together and sitting in my
refugium. A couple things I'm unsure of: the 'waste' tube...where
should that be pointing? The guy at the store said just to stick it
into a soda bottle or something...agree on that? Other
question...where should the power pump go for the skimmer? I have the
pump for the overflow in the 'clean' side of the refugium, but was
unsure where to position the pump for the skimmer...Should it be in
the water in the ref.? Does it matter if it's on the dirty or clean
side?

Thanks again all for the wealth of great advice!
Mitch

Big Habeeb wrote:

I have the tank setup in what will be its final
position...unfortunately I realized too late on Saturday that I didn't
have a good surge strip around to setup all the various bits and
pieces, so tonight I'll pick that up so I can actually get started.

You might also want to put most of this on a GFCI outlet. Only use this outlet
for things that are actually in the water (like heaters). If the GFCI trips, it
will be a real problem trying to figure out which piece of equipment tripped it,
but leaving that faulty equipment on the tank can kill fish.

1. Where should I place the heater? The LFS recommended dropping it
either into the refugium or into hte overflow box...any opinions on
that?

Given that choice, I would put it in the overflow box.

2. Protein skimmer. I have one. It's put together and sitting in my
refugium. A couple things I'm unsure of: the 'waste' tube...where
should that be pointing? The guy at the store said just to stick it
into a soda bottle or something...agree on that? Other
question...where should the power pump go for the skimmer? I have the
pump for the overflow in the 'clean' side of the refugium, but was
unsure where to position the pump for the skimmer...Should it be in
the water in the ref.? Does it matter if it's on the dirty or clean
side?

The waste tube can go in any sort of collector - mine is routed to an old coffee
jar. Just make sure that the collector is large enough to contain several day's
effluent. The location of the input doesn't matter, since the skimmer will pull
out stuff that the other filters won't touch. It runs just as well on "clean"
water as "dirty."

George Patterson
If you torture the data long enough, eventually it will confess
to anything.