Aiptasia control

Pszemol wrote:
wrote in message ...
also, i fully agree with pszemol, natural biological control is always
better than chemical control, in ANY circumstance, human or fish. but

Agreed, when it works. When it doesn't...

Tell me about your tank... how big is it.

55 gallon.

How many aiptasias?

More than I used to have. At this point, over a hundred.

How many shrimps you get?

Started with 5. Good scavangers, lousey anenomenephages.

Maybe there is an obvious reason why shrimp method did not work for you
but it works great for many other people including me? :-)

Which is nice. Copperbands work for some people, not others. The
nudibranchs are supposed to work as well, but even their purchase
comes with numerous caveats (of a different type than the shrimp
and butterflies, however.) They are supposed to be small, and require
careful acclimimatization.

Mike

Pszemol wrote:
wrote in message ...
However, curiousity compels me to wonder why, if you know nothing
of the treatments involved, and seemingly are unaware of the
consequences and failure rate of (eg) shrimp, you feel compelled
to promote your opinion as somehow more valid...

You will understand when you try to find contents of the chemicals
in the bottle - are they listed on the label?

Nope.

If not - that is a perfect reason to not use it in my tank.

The "perfect reason to not use it" would be "something preferable
worked". This was not the case.

I would have tried the berghia, but they're only available via
mail order.

In any event, so far, no negative effects with the Blue Life, though
it is disconcerting to see the aiptasia turn white and disintegrate
almost before one's eyes.

Mike

wrote in message ...
Pszemol wrote:
wrote in message ...
also, i fully agree with pszemol, natural biological control is always
better than chemical control, in ANY circumstance, human or fish. but

Agreed, when it works. When it doesn't...

Tell me about your tank... how big is it.

55 gallon.

How many aiptasias?

More than I used to have. At this point, over a hundred.

How many shrimps you get?

Started with 5. Good scavangers, lousey anenomenephages.

So how many peppermint shrimps you had top in 55 gallons
and how many aiptasias you got THEN (not now...) ?

Now, with a hundred fully grown anemones this is way too
late for 5 shrimps to make a dent... Aiptasia will grow
much faster than shrimp can keep up consuming them...
You need to get shrimps to work when you see first one or
two large aiptasia polyps and then it is effective method.

"Pszemol" wrote on Tue, 30 Oct 2007:
If you have 2 small peppermints and 200 fully grown aiptasias in a 200
gallon reef tank than do not expect that shrimps will make a bid dent on
the population - you never allow aiptasia to take over the tank

Hey! That sounds like my tank!

-- Don
__________________________________________________ _____________________________
Don Geddis http://reef.geddis.org/
I drink to make other people interesting.

wrote on Tue, 30 Oct 2007:
The MarineDepot newsletter had 3 similar products listed; Joe's Juice,
Chem-Marin, and the Blue Life. Joe's Juice actually had a higher
rating, but my local LFS don't carry them.

I usually use Joe's Juice. It rarely kills them the first time, but a good
dose on a large one will make it much smaller and clear, and sometimes kill
them. I mostly use it to target-attack aiptasias that are threatening my
show corals.

Not from San Francisco, are you?

Nearby. On the peninsula. The hills above San Mateo.

-- Don
__________________________________________________ _____________________________
Don Geddis http://reef.geddis.org/
Misfortune: While good fortune often eludes you, this kind never misses.
-- Despair.com

On Oct 30, 9:58 pm, "Pszemol" wrote:
wrote in ...
I put a few drops on a few of the buggers, and looks like it kills
them. Any long-term effects? Any other products recommended?

The best product I can recommend is buing some peppermint shrimps.

Tried them; they don't work. Neither did copper-bands.
I had one actually eat flake food instead.

Of course shrimp will eat flake food - why are you surprised?

The copper-band is a butterfly fish. One could look it up.

I know what is fish and what is shrimp.
We were talking about shrimps originally and it was not clear
which was eating flakes causing your surprise...
In both cases they will prefer flake food as easy food source.

If you have a copper-band which eats flake food, you have
an unusual fish, as is noted in most of the literature.

So make your mind - was yours eating flake food or was not? :-)





Note,Aiptasiawill also eat flake food, so if you feed too much
and flakes float in the water you are feeding the pests, too...

In any event, I'd still like some feedback on the Blue Life, if
anyone's tried it.

Mike, are you the manufacturer rep? ;-)

I must have mistaken this group for one which discusses issues
surrounding reef tanks. I seem to have wandered into one where
people change questions to ones they can answer. My apologies.

You asked us for opinion - you got it:

No, I did not get it.

I got an opinion on shrimp, which is available in all the standard
books.

So you decided throw away proven and safe method
and go with unknown chemical in a pretty bottle instead... :-)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Saltyunderground.com has been helping people solve their aiptasia
problems for years. The following summary of aiptasia control options
are based upon 5 years of conversations with hundreds of people and
our own experiences. It's no secret that there are not many hard and
fast rules in this hobby. The following is a general review of these
options. Each hobbyist experiences may vary. We hope you can use this
information as you consider what method is best for your aiptasia
problem.

Berghia Nudibranchs
Strengths: Berghia eat only aiptasia anemones, nothing else. They can
crawl all over your tank to eat the aiptasia you see and the ones you
do not see. If acclimated and added to a well maintained tank, they
are hardy invertebrates. They may reproduce to help speed up aiptasia
eradication.
Weaknesses: It may take time for the berghia to solve heavy aiptasia
infestations especially if you do not get the correct number of
berghia for your situation. If the berghia are not at least ½", they
should be maintained in a small tank or a container of at least 1
gallon of water until they grow larger before they are placed in a
display tank.
Predators: Primary predators are peppermint shrimp and nocturnal
scavenging fish including coris wrasses that hunt at night.

Peppermint Shrimp
Strengths: When they work, they work fairly well. They typically eat
aiptasia fairly quickly.
Weaknesses: Some stores do not know what type of peppermint shrimp
they are selling. So the shrimp you get may or may not be the kind
that will eat aiptasia. Peppermints would rather eat fish food and may
not eat large aiptasia. They can be destructive to corals, desirable
anemones and clams. Smaller peppermints may not acclimate well.
Predators: Fish which eat ornamental invertebrates such as hawkfish,
various dottybacks, various wrasses, some puffers, some triggers,
eels, ect.

Copperbanded Butterflyfish
Strengths: When they eat aiptasia, they are usually fairly quick about
it.
Weaknesses: Difficult fish to acclimate to a home tank. It may take
several fish to find one that will live. When they live, they are hit
or miss on eating aiptasia. Some are easily bullied by other fish and
it can be difficult to get them to eat foods added to the tank. Some
may nip at corals and clams. Not an appropriate fish for tanks under
50 gallons.

Injected Chemicals and Potions
(includes Kalkwasser preparations such as homemade mixes and store
bought preparations; lemon juice; boiling water, ect.)
Strengths: Inexpensive (when used on a small number of aiptasia) and
fairly easy.
Weaknesses: Risky since this technique often makes the aiptasia
problem worse by spreading small pieces of the dying aiptasia around
the tank. Those pieces grow into a lot of small aiptasia. May cause
injury if you accidentally apply to corals. Can only apply them to the
aiptasia you can reach. Can alter tank pH when used in large doses in
smaller tanks.

Manual Pulling and Scraping
Strengths: Free and fairly easy.
Weaknesses: This is a waste of time. Pulling and scraping may make the
aiptasia problem much worse by spreading small pieces of the aiptasia
around the tank. Those pieces grow into a lot of small aiptasia. It
may be * to get at all of the aiptasia using this method.

Soaking Rock in Fresh Water
Strengths: Free
Weakness: Don't bother. It will kill all life on the rock except the
aiptasia. Aiptasia can live through fresh water soaking, even for
days.

On Oct 30, 9:58 pm, "Pszemol" wrote:
wrote in ...
I put a few drops on a few of the buggers, and looks like it kills
them. Any long-term effects? Any other products recommended?

The best product I can recommend is buing some peppermint shrimps.

Tried them; they don't work. Neither did copper-bands.
I had one actually eat flake food instead.

Of course shrimp will eat flake food - why are you surprised?

The copper-band is a butterfly fish. One could look it up.

I know what is fish and what is shrimp.
We were talking about shrimps originally and it was not clear
which was eating flakes causing your surprise...
In both cases they will prefer flake food as easy food source.

If you have a copper-band which eats flake food, you have
an unusual fish, as is noted in most of the literature.

So make your mind - was yours eating flake food or was not? :-)





Note,Aiptasiawill also eat flake food, so if you feed too much
and flakes float in the water you are feeding the pests, too...

In any event, I'd still like some feedback on the Blue Life, if
anyone's tried it.

Mike, are you the manufacturer rep? ;-)

I must have mistaken this group for one which discusses issues
surrounding reef tanks. I seem to have wandered into one where
people change questions to ones they can answer. My apologies.

You asked us for opinion - you got it:

No, I did not get it.

I got an opinion on shrimp, which is available in all the standard
books.

So you decided throw away proven and safe method
and go with unknown chemical in a pretty bottle instead... :-)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Saltyunderground.com has been helping people solve their aiptasia
problems for years. The following summary of aiptasia control options
are based upon 5 years of conversations with hundreds of people and
our own experiences. It's no secret that there are not many hard and
fast rules in this hobby. The following is a general review of these
options. Each hobbyist experiences may vary. We hope you can use this
information as you consider what method is best for your aiptasia
problem.

Berghia Nudibranchs
Strengths: Berghia eat only aiptasia anemones, nothing else. They can
crawl all over your tank to eat the aiptasia you see and the ones you
do not see. If acclimated and added to a well maintained tank, they
are hardy invertebrates. They may reproduce to help speed up aiptasia
eradication.
Weaknesses: It may take time for the berghia to solve heavy aiptasia
infestations especially if you do not get the correct number of
berghia for your situation. If the berghia are not at least ½", they
should be maintained in a small tank or a container of at least 1
gallon of water until they grow larger before they are placed in a
display tank.
Predators: Primary predators are peppermint shrimp and nocturnal
scavenging fish including coris wrasses that hunt at night.

Peppermint Shrimp
Strengths: When they work, they work fairly well. They typically eat
aiptasia fairly quickly.
Weaknesses: Some stores do not know what type of peppermint shrimp
they are selling. So the shrimp you get may or may not be the kind
that will eat aiptasia. Peppermints would rather eat fish food and may
not eat large aiptasia. They can be destructive to corals, desirable
anemones and clams. Smaller peppermints may not acclimate well.
Predators: Fish which eat ornamental invertebrates such as hawkfish,
various dottybacks, various wrasses, some puffers, some triggers,
eels, ect.

Copperbanded Butterflyfish
Strengths: When they eat aiptasia, they are usually fairly quick about
it.
Weaknesses: Difficult fish to acclimate to a home tank. It may take
several fish to find one that will live. When they live, they are hit
or miss on eating aiptasia. Some are easily bullied by other fish and
it can be difficult to get them to eat foods added to the tank. Some
may nip at corals and clams. Not an appropriate fish for tanks under
50 gallons.

Injected Chemicals and Potions
(includes Kalkwasser preparations such as homemade mixes and store
bought preparations; lemon juice; boiling water, ect.)
Strengths: Inexpensive (when used on a small number of aiptasia) and
fairly easy.
Weaknesses: Risky since this technique often makes the aiptasia
problem worse by spreading small pieces of the dying aiptasia around
the tank. Those pieces grow into a lot of small aiptasia. May cause
injury if you accidentally apply to corals. Can only apply them to the
aiptasia you can reach. Can alter tank pH when used in large doses in
smaller tanks.

Manual Pulling and Scraping
Strengths: Free and fairly easy.
Weaknesses: This is a waste of time. Pulling and scraping may make the
aiptasia problem much worse by spreading small pieces of the aiptasia
around the tank. Those pieces grow into a lot of small aiptasia. It
may be * to get at all of the aiptasia using this method.

Soaking Rock in Fresh Water
Strengths: Free
Weakness: Don't bother. It will kill all life on the rock except the
aiptasia. Aiptasia can live through fresh water soaking, even for
days.

"Don Geddis" wrote in message ...
"Pszemol" wrote on Tue, 30 Oct 2007:
If you have 2 small peppermints and 200 fully grown aiptasias in a 200
gallon reef tank than do not expect that shrimps will make a bid dent on
the population - you never allow aiptasia to take over the tank

Hey! That sounds like my tank!

Than we know now why shrimps did not work for you :-)

wrote in message ups.com...
Manual Pulling and Scraping
Strengths: Free and fairly easy.
Weaknesses: This is a waste of time. Pulling and scraping may make the
aiptasia problem much worse by spreading small pieces of the aiptasia
around the tank. Those pieces grow into a lot of small aiptasia. It
may be * to get at all of the aiptasia using this method.

I was using this method on heavy infested system but I also used
in this tank a dozen of peppermint shrimps. They are very cheep
to get online on the sites like www.reeftopia.com - just checked their
current prices: $4.00 Each - 4 @ $3.00 Each or 10 @ $2.50 Each.
What is more important - they have the RIGHT kind eating aiptasia.

When you take out the rocks and destroy as many aiptasias as
you can reach and then such bare rocks with aiptasia pieces
leftovers put in the tank with shrimps you will have guarantied effects.

You need to make sure you buy peppermint shrimp, Lysmata
wurdermanni, not the camel back shrimp or any other similar...

So the plan of action for your 55 gallons would be:

- order shrimps, 10 should do it
- before order arrives pull as many rocks as possible
- clean the rocks with the toothbrush and rinse with clean sal****er
- put them cleaned to the tank JUST before releasing shrimps
- limit feedings to bare minimum
- feed only pellet foods targeting fish, couple pellets at the time
- do not let any pellets reach the bottom of the tank and become food for shrimps.
- keep this regime for next weeks, maybe two months

You should have tank aiptasia free until you bring in more liverock :-)

Also the nudibranches have been known to be killed
by clown fish protecting thiere anemone, even though
the burgia nudibranches won't hurt the clownfish's
anemone.

Wayne Sallee