Live rock in sump -yay or nay?

Yes I know I can read up on it, and I have, but I want some real life
opinions here.

Brief background, since most of the regular posters seem to be
following my adventures with some regularity:
72 gallon bow, about 100lbs of live rock, 4 inches of argonite sand
(give or take) over most of the bottom, 15 gallon sump, protein
skimmer etc, 10000k flour bulbs...basic newbie setup...

Now what I've read alot of is that it is absolutely crucial to get
some live rock down in the sump, along with a separate lamp so that it
can grow algae, caulerpa etc. I've also read several tales of people
having no problem WITHOUT adding those things to the sump....so my
question is this:
How do I know if it is necessary to get some live rock and light down
there as opposed to leaving it be? It seems that I already have
plenty of rock in the tank to allow for adequate filtration (at least
at this point...my bio load is EXTREMELY low with only one teeny
clownfish and one PJ cardinal)...aside from that, a small chunk of
zoanthid and some large, unidentified, brown mushrooms.

So, am I a candidate for needing the extra hardware? I don't mind
adding it, but I'll tell you the basic reason for asking rather than
just doing...the base for my tank has a glass door, and adding a lamp
will, obviously, cause that glass door to be quite see through. While
I can add a pad or osmething to the door to block that, I'd rather not
have to start futzing if I can avoid it...

Suggestions? Comments?
Thanks,
Mitch

Sounds like you are confused between a refugium and a sump.


On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 17:34:13 -0000, Big Habeeb
wrote:

Yes I know I can read up on it, and I have, but I want some real life
opinions here.

Brief background, since most of the regular posters seem to be
following my adventures with some regularity:
72 gallon bow, about 100lbs of live rock, 4 inches of argonite sand
(give or take) over most of the bottom, 15 gallon sump, protein
skimmer etc, 10000k flour bulbs...basic newbie setup...

Now what I've read alot of is that it is absolutely crucial to get
some live rock down in the sump, along with a separate lamp so that it
can grow algae, caulerpa etc. I've also read several tales of people
having no problem WITHOUT adding those things to the sump....so my
question is this:
How do I know if it is necessary to get some live rock and light down
there as opposed to leaving it be? It seems that I already have
plenty of rock in the tank to allow for adequate filtration (at least
at this point...my bio load is EXTREMELY low with only one teeny
clownfish and one PJ cardinal)...aside from that, a small chunk of
zoanthid and some large, unidentified, brown mushrooms.

So, am I a candidate for needing the extra hardware? I don't mind
adding it, but I'll tell you the basic reason for asking rather than
just doing...the base for my tank has a glass door, and adding a lamp
will, obviously, cause that glass door to be quite see through. While
I can add a pad or osmething to the door to block that, I'd rather not
have to start futzing if I can avoid it...

Suggestions? Comments?
Thanks,
Mitch

On Nov 14, 2:27 pm, gaijin wrote:
Sounds like you are confused between a refugium and a sump.

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 17:34:13 -0000, Big Habeeb



wrote:
Yes I know I can read up on it, and I have, but I want some real life
opinions here.

Brief background, since most of the regular posters seem to be
following my adventures with some regularity:
72 gallon bow, about 100lbs of live rock, 4 inches of argonite sand
(give or take) over most of the bottom, 15 gallon sump, protein
skimmer etc, 10000k flour bulbs...basic newbie setup...

Now what I've read alot of is that it is absolutely crucial to get
some live rock down in the sump, along with a separate lamp so that it
can grow algae, caulerpa etc. I've also read several tales of people
having no problem WITHOUT adding those things to the sump....so my
question is this:
How do I know if it is necessary to get some live rock and light down
there as opposed to leaving it be? It seems that I already have
plenty of rock in the tank to allow for adequate filtration (at least
at this point...my bio load is EXTREMELY low with only one teeny
clownfish and one PJ cardinal)...aside from that, a small chunk of
zoanthid and some large, unidentified, brown mushrooms.

So, am I a candidate for needing the extra hardware? I don't mind
adding it, but I'll tell you the basic reason for asking rather than
just doing...the base for my tank has a glass door, and adding a lamp
will, obviously, cause that glass door to be quite see through. While
I can add a pad or osmething to the door to block that, I'd rather not
have to start futzing if I can avoid it...

Suggestions? Comments?
Thanks,
Mitch- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That is quite possible, since I've never gotten a definition of the
difference. The LFS tells me I have a refugium, but it looks the same
as a sump to me. I mean, isnt the sump the big glass box under the
tank?

Mitch

Sump is usually a high flow rate enclosure. A Refugium is a very slow
rate enclosure. This is where you put rock, sand and plants and a
light. They can be beneficial, but are not absolutely necessary.
Certainly can't hurt.

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 19:39:41 -0000, Big Habeeb
wrote:

On Nov 14, 2:27 pm, gaijin wrote:
Sounds like you are confused between a refugium and a sump.

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 17:34:13 -0000, Big Habeeb



wrote:
Yes I know I can read up on it, and I have, but I want some real life
opinions here.

Brief background, since most of the regular posters seem to be
following my adventures with some regularity:
72 gallon bow, about 100lbs of live rock, 4 inches of argonite sand
(give or take) over most of the bottom, 15 gallon sump, protein
skimmer etc, 10000k flour bulbs...basic newbie setup...

Now what I've read alot of is that it is absolutely crucial to get
some live rock down in the sump, along with a separate lamp so that it
can grow algae, caulerpa etc. I've also read several tales of people
having no problem WITHOUT adding those things to the sump....so my
question is this:
How do I know if it is necessary to get some live rock and light down
there as opposed to leaving it be? It seems that I already have
plenty of rock in the tank to allow for adequate filtration (at least
at this point...my bio load is EXTREMELY low with only one teeny
clownfish and one PJ cardinal)...aside from that, a small chunk of
zoanthid and some large, unidentified, brown mushrooms.

So, am I a candidate for needing the extra hardware? I don't mind
adding it, but I'll tell you the basic reason for asking rather than
just doing...the base for my tank has a glass door, and adding a lamp
will, obviously, cause that glass door to be quite see through. While
I can add a pad or osmething to the door to block that, I'd rather not
have to start futzing if I can avoid it...

Suggestions? Comments?
Thanks,
Mitch- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That is quite possible, since I've never gotten a definition of the
difference. The LFS tells me I have a refugium, but it looks the same
as a sump to me. I mean, isnt the sump the big glass box under the
tank?

Mitch

A sump, is simply a container that holds water that
drains into it. Then a pump, pumps the water from
the sump.

A refugium is simply a place for things to take
refuge. This gives seaweed, and critters the ability
to reproduce without being eaten. There are a
variety of benefits to doing this.

A sump can double as a refugium. But if you have a
refugium that is above the tank, as some people do,
then it's definitely not a sump. :-)

No it's not absolutely critical to get live rock in
the sump. By the way, live rock can be very
beneficial without any light. The only reason to
have light, is to grow algae.

Wayne Sallee



gaijin wrote on 11/14/2007 3:00 PM:
Sump is usually a high flow rate enclosure. A Refugium is a very slow
rate enclosure. This is where you put rock, sand and plants and a
light. They can be beneficial, but are not absolutely necessary.
Certainly can't hurt.

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 19:39:41 -0000, Big Habeeb
wrote:

On Nov 14, 2:27 pm, gaijin wrote:
Sounds like you are confused between a refugium and a sump.

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 17:34:13 -0000, Big Habeeb



wrote:
Yes I know I can read up on it, and I have, but I want some real life
opinions here.
Brief background, since most of the regular posters seem to be
following my adventures with some regularity:
72 gallon bow, about 100lbs of live rock, 4 inches of argonite sand
(give or take) over most of the bottom, 15 gallon sump, protein
skimmer etc, 10000k flour bulbs...basic newbie setup...
Now what I've read alot of is that it is absolutely crucial to get
some live rock down in the sump, along with a separate lamp so that it
can grow algae, caulerpa etc. I've also read several tales of people
having no problem WITHOUT adding those things to the sump....so my
question is this:
How do I know if it is necessary to get some live rock and light down
there as opposed to leaving it be? It seems that I already have
plenty of rock in the tank to allow for adequate filtration (at least
at this point...my bio load is EXTREMELY low with only one teeny
clownfish and one PJ cardinal)...aside from that, a small chunk of
zoanthid and some large, unidentified, brown mushrooms.
So, am I a candidate for needing the extra hardware? I don't mind
adding it, but I'll tell you the basic reason for asking rather than
just doing...the base for my tank has a glass door, and adding a lamp
will, obviously, cause that glass door to be quite see through. While
I can add a pad or osmething to the door to block that, I'd rather not
have to start futzing if I can avoid it...
Suggestions? Comments?
Thanks,
Mitch- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
That is quite possible, since I've never gotten a definition of the
difference. The LFS tells me I have a refugium, but it looks the same
as a sump to me. I mean, isnt the sump the big glass box under the
tank?

Mitch

On Nov 15, 1:26 pm, Wayne Sallee wrote:
A sump, is simply a container that holds water that
drains into it. Then a pump, pumps the water from
the sump.

A refugium is simply a place for things to take
refuge. This gives seaweed, and critters the ability
to reproduce without being eaten. There are a
variety of benefits to doing this.

A sump can double as a refugium. But if you have a
refugium that is above the tank, as some people do,
then it's definitely not a sump. :-)

No it's not absolutely critical to get live rock in
the sump. By the way, live rock can be very
beneficial without any light. The only reason to
have light, is to grow algae.

Wayne Sallee


gaijin wrote on 11/14/2007 3:00 PM:



Sump is usually a high flow rate enclosure. A Refugium is a very slow
rate enclosure. This is where you put rock, sand and plants and a
light. They can be beneficial, but are not absolutely necessary.
Certainly can't hurt.

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 19:39:41 -0000, Big Habeeb
wrote:

On Nov 14, 2:27 pm, gaijin wrote:
Sounds like you are confused between a refugium and a sump.

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 17:34:13 -0000, Big Habeeb

wrote:
Yes I know I can read up on it, and I have, but I want some real life
opinions here.
Brief background, since most of the regular posters seem to be
following my adventures with some regularity:
72 gallon bow, about 100lbs of live rock, 4 inches of argonite sand
(give or take) over most of the bottom, 15 gallon sump, protein
skimmer etc, 10000k flour bulbs...basic newbie setup...
Now what I've read alot of is that it is absolutely crucial to get
some live rock down in the sump, along with a separate lamp so that it
can grow algae, caulerpa etc. I've also read several tales of people
having no problem WITHOUT adding those things to the sump....so my
question is this:
How do I know if it is necessary to get some live rock and light down
there as opposed to leaving it be? It seems that I already have
plenty of rock in the tank to allow for adequate filtration (at least
at this point...my bio load is EXTREMELY low with only one teeny
clownfish and one PJ cardinal)...aside from that, a small chunk of
zoanthid and some large, unidentified, brown mushrooms.
So, am I a candidate for needing the extra hardware? I don't mind
adding it, but I'll tell you the basic reason for asking rather than
just doing...the base for my tank has a glass door, and adding a lamp
will, obviously, cause that glass door to be quite see through. While
I can add a pad or osmething to the door to block that, I'd rather not
have to start futzing if I can avoid it...
Suggestions? Comments?
Thanks,
Mitch- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
That is quite possible, since I've never gotten a definition of the
difference. The LFS tells me I have a refugium, but it looks the same
as a sump to me. I mean, isnt the sump the big glass box under the
tank?

Mitch- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Wayne,
Thank you - that is exactly the answer I needed. So my sump could be
a refugium, simply by putting critters in there essentially...and for
the moment I'll hold off on the live rock : growing algae is not a
problem at this point (green gone, incoming red..oh joy)
Mitch

"gaijin" wrote in message
...
Sounds like you are confused between a refugium and a sump.


The LFS puts LR in some of their sumps and not in others. I always guessed
it's because they don't have enough LR to go around. I'll ask the next time
I'm there.

I looked at refugium, in the dictionary, and an aquarium along with it's
sump, could be considered a reugium. But you aquarium guys may have a more
esoteric meaning for the word.

In a false back Bio Cube, the LFS uses only LR as a filter. But that
aquarium is full of LR.

Jim

Big Habeeb wrote:
Yes I know I can read up on it, and I have, but I want some real life
opinions here.


The guy I bought my tank from had a bunch of rock in the sump. It's not
a bad idea if you think about buying dead rock at a bargain and then
allowing it to seed over time. It's not unheard of, but I think most
people prefer the water volume in the refugium.

Usually a sump doesn't have any light, so I wouldn't recommend putting
live rock there unless you want to cook it (ie, kill algae). Refugium
is good because the copepods prefer rock to sand.

--Kurt

Big Habeeb wrote in
ups.com:

Yes I know I can read up on it, and I have, but I want some real life
opinions here.

Brief background, since most of the regular posters seem to be
following my adventures with some regularity:
72 gallon bow, about 100lbs of live rock, 4 inches of argonite sand
(give or take) over most of the bottom, 15 gallon sump, protein
skimmer etc, 10000k flour bulbs...basic newbie setup...

Now what I've read alot of is that it is absolutely crucial to get
some live rock down in the sump, along with a separate lamp so that it
can grow algae, caulerpa etc. I've also read several tales of people
having no problem WITHOUT adding those things to the sump....so my
question is this:
How do I know if it is necessary to get some live rock and light down
there as opposed to leaving it be? It seems that I already have
plenty of rock in the tank to allow for adequate filtration (at least
at this point...my bio load is EXTREMELY low with only one teeny
clownfish and one PJ cardinal)...aside from that, a small chunk of
zoanthid and some large, unidentified, brown mushrooms.

So, am I a candidate for needing the extra hardware? I don't mind
adding it, but I'll tell you the basic reason for asking rather than
just doing...the base for my tank has a glass door, and adding a lamp
will, obviously, cause that glass door to be quite see through. While
I can add a pad or osmething to the door to block that, I'd rather not
have to start futzing if I can avoid it...

Suggestions? Comments?
Thanks,
Mitch



I would not put LR in the sump. I tried this and found it very quickly
accumulated detritus. It can be done, but I am happier with just
macroalgae in the sump. If you don't have macro in the sump, you don't
need light, although having a refugium with some algae growing helps with
nitrates.


Mark

A pile of live rock rubble that the water is forced
through works better than large pieces of live rock.

Wayne Sallee



Mark Cooper wrote on 11/17/2007 2:19 PM:
Big Habeeb wrote in
ups.com:

Yes I know I can read up on it, and I have, but I want some real life
opinions here.

Brief background, since most of the regular posters seem to be
following my adventures with some regularity:
72 gallon bow, about 100lbs of live rock, 4 inches of argonite sand
(give or take) over most of the bottom, 15 gallon sump, protein
skimmer etc, 10000k flour bulbs...basic newbie setup...

Now what I've read alot of is that it is absolutely crucial to get
some live rock down in the sump, along with a separate lamp so that it
can grow algae, caulerpa etc. I've also read several tales of people
having no problem WITHOUT adding those things to the sump....so my
question is this:
How do I know if it is necessary to get some live rock and light down
there as opposed to leaving it be? It seems that I already have
plenty of rock in the tank to allow for adequate filtration (at least
at this point...my bio load is EXTREMELY low with only one teeny
clownfish and one PJ cardinal)...aside from that, a small chunk of
zoanthid and some large, unidentified, brown mushrooms.

So, am I a candidate for needing the extra hardware? I don't mind
adding it, but I'll tell you the basic reason for asking rather than
just doing...the base for my tank has a glass door, and adding a lamp
will, obviously, cause that glass door to be quite see through. While
I can add a pad or osmething to the door to block that, I'd rather not
have to start futzing if I can avoid it...

Suggestions? Comments?
Thanks,
Mitch



I would not put LR in the sump. I tried this and found it very quickly
accumulated detritus. It can be done, but I am happier with just
macroalgae in the sump. If you don't have macro in the sump, you don't
need light, although having a refugium with some algae growing helps with
nitrates.


Mark