Ich Outbreak!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Larry Blanchard" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 22:54:43 -0600, Reel McKoi wrote:

How the heck can this happen when nothing has been added for awhile??? I
happened today as this morning they were all fine. My poor clown loaches
are covered, the other fish have some..... what's recommended with clown
loaches that's safe? :*(

There was an article in TFH a while back that treated ich by raising
temperatures and moving fish back and forth between two tanks, thus
interrupting the life cycle of the parasite.

Perhaps someone else has the article or remembers more of the details.
============================
That's impossible with a heavily planted 55g tank and a lot of speedy
tetras. What we can't understand is WHERE did the ich come from?!?!?!?!
This isn't supposed to happen. If a oocyte didn't live over for several
weeks somehow, then it came from the frozen food I just bought for them a
few days ago. :-(
--

RM....
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

Reel McKoi wrote:

"Larry Blanchard" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 22:54:43 -0600, Reel McKoi wrote:

How the heck can this happen when nothing has been added for
awhile??? I
happened today as this morning they were all fine. My poor clown
loaches
are covered, the other fish have some..... what's recommended with
clown
loaches that's safe? :*(


There was an article in TFH a while back that treated ich by raising
temperatures and moving fish back and forth between two tanks, thus
interrupting the life cycle of the parasite.

Perhaps someone else has the article or remembers more of the details.

============================
That's impossible with a heavily planted 55g tank and a lot of speedy
tetras. What we can't understand is WHERE did the ich come from?!?!?!?!
This isn't supposed to happen. If a oocyte didn't live over for several
weeks somehow, then it came from the frozen food I just bought for them
a few days ago. :-(

The ich came because it was already present in the water column or
lurking in the gills of the fish but not showing itself......healthy
fish can have ich but not succumb or show any symptoms....there has to
be a trigger.....

Now the most common trigger is stress.....it could be turf wars, water
quality, introduction of new fish (which aren't necessarily the ones
that get the ich)....or any number of factors....but I very much doubt
it would be frozen food if you study the life cycle of ich....

There are a number of ways of treating ich in freshwater
fish....including meds (half dose with loaches), raising the temp and
adding salt (might make your plants suffer but better than losing the
fish) or the bare tank one which involves moving the fish between tanks
to break the cycle of the free floating stuff which reinfects.....

I've tried all apart from the move from tank to tank with varied
success.....until I got ich in my marine tank and then you are talking
£100s in wipe out of fish if you don't control it.....the marine folks
take a different stance although without dotting the i's and crossing
the t's it is one I've tried with a certain degree of success in my
freshwater tanks.....but the result in the sal****er was just amazing....

First, you need to look at what might be stressing the fish.....provide
more cover or resolve the issue by removing the stress factor - try
reducing the lighting to give them more resting....and the key factor
when treating marine fish and I tried this with FW with a lot of success
but not the magic ingredient is to get them to eat well - high protein
diet......add a little garlic to their frozen and feed this
daily.....this not only apparently helps the appetite but also increases
their ability to cope with stress and promotes the slime coat which will
protect them against things such as white spot/ich....

Well.....I'm not 100% convinced but I do have a Regal Tang swimming
around completely cured with no meds and no infection of other
fish.....I know marine is different to freshwater but the theory behind
it all sounds good to me.....

Gill

"Gill Passman" wrote in message
...
Reel McKoi wrote:
That's impossible with a heavily planted 55g tank and a lot of speedy
tetras. What we can't understand is WHERE did the ich come from?!?!?!?!
This isn't supposed to happen. If a oocyte didn't live over for several
weeks somehow, then it came from the frozen food I just bought for them a
few days ago. :-(
==============
The ich came because it was already present in the water column or lurking
in the gills of the fish but not showing itself......healthy fish can have
ich but not succumb or show any symptoms....there has to be a trigger.....

Nothing unusual happened in the tank except the Clown Pleco dying and the
new frozen foods I picked up. There were no ich to be seen on the dead
pleco. I didn't check the gills.

Now the most common trigger is stress.....it could be turf wars, water
quality, introduction of new fish (which aren't necessarily the ones that
get the ich)....or any number of factors....but I very much doubt it would
be frozen food if you study the life cycle of ich...

Which I have done ad nauseum..... that's why I was so shocked to see it
appear as it did. Anything that encysted in the gills would still fall off
and turn into hundreds, in days. At least a few of the others would be
susceptible. Apparently not all websites agree.

There are a number of ways of treating ich in freshwater fish....including
meds (half dose with loaches), raising the temp and adding salt (might
make your plants suffer but better than losing the fish) or the bare tank
one which involves moving the fish between tanks to break the cycle of the
free floating stuff which reinfects.....

How would anyone know using this switching method if the ich isn't *again
hidden* in someone's gills??? And the stress alone of chasing and moving
the fish daily is more stress than anything else.

I've tried all apart from the move from tank to tank with varied
success.....until I got ich in my marine tank and then you are talking
£100s in wipe out of fish if you don't control it.....the marine folks
take a different stance although without dotting the i's and crossing the
t's it is one I've tried with a certain degree of success in my freshwater
tanks.....but the result in the sal****er was just amazing....

First, you need to look at what might be stressing the fish.....provide
more cover or resolve the issue by removing the stress factor - try
reducing the lighting to give them more resting....and the key factor when
treating marine fish and I tried this with FW with a lot of success but
not the magic ingredient is to get them to eat well - high protein
diet......add a little garlic to their frozen and feed this daily.....this
not only apparently helps the appetite but also increases their ability to
cope with stress and promotes the slime coat which will protect them
against things such as white spot/ich....

Good info but they're eating well and are already on a high protein diet.
They're not overcrowded, get their water changes on time and have plenty of
hiding places in the plants. They get a large variety of food, both frozen
and dry. They're not near any source of noise, flashing lights or a high
traffic area. The only thing new or different was the new packages of
frozen food.


Well.....I'm not 100% convinced but I do have a Regal Tang swimming around
completely cured with no meds and no infection of other fish.....I know
marine is different to freshwater but the theory behind it all sounds good
to me.....

Gill

Thanks for the info Gill. They're all tolerating the AquaraSol well, it's
not a harsh treatment, so I'll continue on with that.
--

RM....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

"Reel McKoi" wrote in message
...

Which I have done ad nauseum..... that's why I was so shocked to see it
appear as it did. Anything that encysted in the gills would still fall
off and turn into hundreds, in days. At least a few of the others would be
susceptible. Apparently not all websites agree.

There are a number of ways of treating ich in freshwater
fish....including meds (half dose with loaches), raising the temp and
adding salt (might make your plants suffer but better than losing the
fish) or the bare tank one which involves moving the fish between tanks
to break the cycle of the free floating stuff which reinfects.....

How would anyone know using this switching method if the ich isn't *again
hidden* in someone's gills??? And the stress alone of chasing and moving
the fish daily is more stress than anything else.

I recently had an Ich outbreak too after moving some fish out of quarantine
into two different tanks. There was no sign of the Ich while in quarantine
(3 weeks), but it struck immediately after moving the fish. I lost all the
Clowns I moved to the one tank and one of the Yoyos I moved to another tank.
I attribute the losses more to a crappy quarantine than the Ich outbreak. I
treated with QuickCure at half the dose because of the Tetras/Loaches. The
one tank cleared up right away and the existing residents never did contract
the Ich, I'm still treating the other tank (precaution) as the Ich stayed
with one Barb for almost a week.

I read a lot about Ich too and there is a lot of conflicting info. But I
don't see how you can be sure it's absolutely gone no matter how long you
treat. How can you know that the free swimmers haven't hatched between doses
of medication and attached to a fish based on their sheer numbers. If they
were in the gills you would never know.

I think my next quarantine will get a precautionary dose of QuickCure. The
"fish guy" at the LFS actually recommended it when I asked, but I did not
want to over medicate.

"Bill Stock" wrote in message
...

"Reel McKoi" wrote in message
...

How would anyone know using this switching method if the ich isn't *again
hidden* in someone's gills??? And the stress alone of chasing and moving
the fish daily is more stress than anything else.
============
I recently had an Ich outbreak too after moving some fish out of
quarantine into two different tanks. There was no sign of the Ich while
in quarantine (3 weeks), but it struck immediately after moving the fish.
I lost all the Clowns I moved to the one tank and one of the Yoyos I moved
to another tank.

Oh man,.... that's gotta hurt. :*(

I attribute the losses more to a crappy quarantine than the Ich outbreak.
I treated with QuickCure at half the dose because of the Tetras/Loaches.
The one tank cleared up right away and the existing residents never did
contract the Ich, I'm still treating the other tank (precaution) as the
Ich stayed with one Barb for almost a week.

I read a lot about Ich too and there is a lot of conflicting info. But I
don't see how you can be sure it's absolutely gone no matter how long you
treat.

There you go! I read so much conflicting information on Ich over the years
I'm inclined to dismiss most of it. I remember having a 150g plant pool go
fishless for months out back. MONTHS!!!! As soon as I added some cull
goldfish to keep the mosquitoes under control they came down with ich. I
believe it does have a form that goes dormant or into some kind of state of
suspended animation until it's stimulated to activity by the nearness of
fish. Maybe it picks up their pheromones or something they excrete or give
off.

How can you know that the free swimmers haven't hatched between doses
of medication and attached to a fish based on their sheer numbers. If they
were in the gills you would never know.

This is true. I wound think there would be flashing or scratching though,
wouldn't you? Gills are sensitive. I saw no flashing.


I think my next quarantine will get a precautionary dose of QuickCure. The
"fish guy" at the LFS actually recommended it when I asked, but I did not
want to over medicate.

I agree with him. I almost always treat them for parasites when in
quarantine. It's the safest way to go.

--
RM....
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö