Water Change Fish Loss?

On Nov 19, 3:49 pm, Wayne Sallee wrote:
What ?????

what what? lol. you didnt understand my method? you quoted 3 users
comments, not sure what you mean by "What"

im thinking fishnut is obviously right, the blenny prob died and got
eaten.

I could not comprehend what you were trying to say.

Wayne Sallee



wolfdogg wrote on 11/20/2007 1:29 PM:
On Nov 19, 3:49 pm, Wayne Sallee wrote:
What ?????

what what? lol. you didnt understand my method? you quoted 3 users
comments, not sure what you mean by "What"

im thinking fishnut is obviously right, the blenny prob died and got
eaten.

i call it the stress free method,

you siphon your tank into your water change container that has fresh
mixed salt water, and simultaneously you take second siphon hose and
siphon the water change container into the sump(assuming the sumps on
the bottom), you need to adjust the hoses with a Kink, or Knot in
them, or simply raise or lower the water change container until the
flow reaches an equilibrium. Then the sump receives water at the same
rate as the tank loses it. its the way i learned from Marc. this way
your tank water level doesn't drop at all, and anything sucked up
will end up in the bucket consequentially.
this way is better than siphoning out water, having your Weir stop or
your water level drop, then pouring water back in which slightly
stresses the creatures, then having to restart the flow again.
some setups wont have the weir (u tube) problem, others will, but
overall its a stress free way to do a water change.

wolfdogg wrote:
i call it the stress free method,

I take advantage of the water changes to siphon/pump crud out of the
system. I've been dumping out 5 gal buckets of sludge lately.

I admit, it would be more stressful on the critters. You're method
would allow a gentle mixing of the water. I'd use a float valve in the
sump to give you the right flow rates.

I also use the waste water to scrub the pumps, etc so I don't kill the
coraline on the outside. I kind of like the coated look.

--Kurt

KurtG wrote:
wolfdogg wrote:

i call it the stress free method,

I take advantage of the water changes to siphon/pump crud out of the
system. I've been dumping out 5 gal buckets of sludge lately.

Maybe you could set up the syphon from the collecting container into the sump in
such a way that most of the crud stays in the collecting container? Perhaps a
strainer on that syphon hose and set it up to pull water from the top of the
container.

I also use the syphon process to remove crud, and I don't have a sump, but
Wolfdogg's procedure sounds very practical. I would try to work out a way to
make it work for you.

George Patterson
Worry doesn't improve the future; it just ruins the present.

It also takes longer, and waist salt.

The way I do water changes, is I make the new salt
water slightly saltier than the aquarium water, then
pump the new water into the aquarium into a sock at
the bottom of the tank. The new water stays at the
bottom, and the old water goes over the overflow. I
also hook a hose to the side output valve of the
return pump plumbing, so I can at the same time,
pump old water from the sump down the drain in the
bath tub. Salt water works great for the septic
tank. So the water in the aquarium does not drop,
except for a tiny bit because there is less water
flowing in the tank to keep the water higher than
the overflow. I can do a 50% water change very
easily this way.

Wayne Sallee



wolfdogg wrote on 11/27/2007 2:47 PM:
i call it the stress free method,

you siphon your tank into your water change container that has fresh
mixed salt water, and simultaneously you take second siphon hose and
siphon the water change container into the sump(assuming the sumps on
the bottom), you need to adjust the hoses with a Kink, or Knot in
them, or simply raise or lower the water change container until the
flow reaches an equilibrium. Then the sump receives water at the same
rate as the tank loses it. its the way i learned from Marc. this way
your tank water level doesn't drop at all, and anything sucked up
will end up in the bucket consequentially.
this way is better than siphoning out water, having your Weir stop or
your water level drop, then pouring water back in which slightly
stresses the creatures, then having to restart the flow again.
some setups wont have the weir (u tube) problem, others will, but
overall its a stress free way to do a water change.

George Patterson wrote on 11/27/2007 10:58 PM:
Perhaps a strainer on that syphon hose and set it up to pull
water from the top of the container.

A blue jean leg sewed together at one end works
great for this.

Wayne Sallee

"wolfdogg" wrote in message ...
i call it the stress free method,

you siphon your tank into your water change container that has fresh
mixed salt water, and simultaneously you take second siphon hose and
siphon the water change container into the sump(assuming the sumps on
the bottom), you need to adjust the hoses with a Kink, or Knot in
them, or simply raise or lower the water change container until the
flow reaches an equilibrium. Then the sump receives water at the same
rate as the tank loses it. its the way i learned from Marc. this way
your tank water level doesn't drop at all, and anything sucked up
will end up in the bucket consequentially.
this way is better than siphoning out water, having your Weir stop or
your water level drop, then pouring water back in which slightly
stresses the creatures, then having to restart the flow again.
some setups wont have the weir (u tube) problem, others will, but
overall its a stress free way to do a water change.

I call it wasteful method :-)
Anybody having anything to do with chemistry will tell you,
that you are wasting a lot of your fresh sal****er - you mix it with
dirty water so effectively you are replacing less water than
the full bucket in the traditional method using two buckets:
one for collecting dirty water and one full with fresh saltmix....

I cannot see how this method lower any stress...
Here is why:

If you have a problems with overflow/weir than you HAVE TO FIX
them immediatelly or the next temporary power outage will cause
your weir to stop and after restarting power your circulation pump
will dump all the content of the sump on your living room floor...
My overflow/weir/sump system is designed that it can take ANY
power outage in any moment and the smp will never run dry
and never overflow... It can be done and should be done :-)
If I knew that my overflow will pour water over my floor with the next
power outage I am not home I would be very stressed man :-)

Second - corals will not suffer temporary exposure to air...
It happens on the reef crest every day with the tidal action...
If you are worried that some coraline exposed to air will
white out you can get it wet during the water change with
a small plastic cup... But for the most cases it is unnecesairy.

"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message
...
It also takes longer, and waist salt.

The way I do water changes, is I make the new salt water slightly saltier
than the aquarium water, then pump the new water into the aquarium into a
sock at the bottom of the tank. The new water stays at the bottom, and the
old water goes over the overflow. I also hook a hose to the side output
valve of the return pump plumbing, so I can at the same time, pump old
water from the sump down the drain in the bath tub. Salt water works great
for the septic tank.

salt isn't particularly good for a septic tank. figure if you're using a
bucket of salt in a year, and it all goes into the tank, where does it go
from there? a lot of time it's still in there, or in your field, and it
doesn't do any good for the bacteria that should be in the tank.

i use mine for killing weeds in the driveway. however, you have to watch
where the salt will migrate to during rains. in az, that doesn't happen
frequently.

So the water in the aquarium does not drop, except for a tiny bit because
there is less water flowing in the tank to keep the water higher than the
overflow. I can do a 50% water change very easily this way.

Wayne Sallee


regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

On Nov 27, 10:07 pm, "Pszemol" wrote:
I call it wasteful method :-)
Anybody having anything to do with chemistry will tell you,
that you are wasting a lot of your fresh sal****er

I cannot see how this method lower any stress...
Here is why:

If you have a problems with overflow/weir than you HAVE TO FIX
them immediately
Second - corals will not suffer temporary exposure to air...

the waste is pretty much minimal, its not much, as you leave the
apparatus running about 15-20 mins, until the salt levels are the
same, and the waste depends on the size of the container vs the size
of the tank. you will notice i did mention it has a bit of waste of
fresh sal****er, i know this, but if your using a 5 gal bucket, and a
60 gallon tank, the waste is only about 2.5% i suspect.

If you were to use one bucket in, and one bucket out, it no longer
becomes a 15-20 stress free change, instead it becomes a bulk of fresh
sea water pouring in with no immediate mixing in the bucket. the
method with 2 buckets as you mention just simply keeps the tank full,
but doesn't allow for the brilliant mixing in the container. it only
wastes minimal. the creatures are the concern.

i do have a problem with the overflow, which you recognized, this
problem is the front 3 sides of my inside overflow box is separating
from the back side, and has been stable like tis for about 12 years
now with a slight separation, i siliconed it once, but its not really
a problem. the power outage feature always works fine, and the weir
always stays full, just when more than 5 gallons are removed the gap
int eh back causes it to drop below the 2inch pvc weir unfortunately.
However, this isnt the reason i use this method, i use it so that the
water can mix first in the change container instead of on top of my
species.

corals wont suffer from temp exposure to air yes, i guess, but i
wouldn't want to do it as my house is pretty cold and it just seems
counter productive. Also, i don't imagine anybody likes to see their
tank drop this unnecessarily if theres another way :-) , and also
sometimes when we do this, we stir up the water when the flow bashes
back into the lower-watered tank once we start the flow again as some
of us use our sump to pump it back in which stirs up the water from
new heavy currents and further stresses corals with cloudy water and
causes them to retract. I guess if you water doesn't stir up at all,
and none of your corals retract when one does their changes then thats
ok, in the best of setups, but the tank lowering isn't always
necessary when doing water changes. i think marc levenson swears by
this method (melevsreef.com) and the waste if minimal if your only
doing a 15% change or less OR using a container thats small compared
to your tank size. If your doing a 50% change then yes, this would be
wasteful, but usually we should be doing a small 10-20% change and to
some the trade-off of 5% salt loss is worth the trade-off of keeping
the stress down. since changes can be hard on the creatures.

This is just the way i do it when doing regular maintenance, but not
when doing mass emergency changes. HTH