Trying Java fern

"Tynk" wrote in message
...
I would not be afraid to bet, with proper kelvin ratings on the bulbs
you could get by with two or even one bulb @ 40Watts each on a 55 gal
tank without a problem..provided they are not too far off the surface
of the water. For proper light dispersal, the reflectors really need
to be polished metal (alum or stainless).......If I was a gambling
individual, I would bet your lights are your main problem in regards
to plant growth.
==============================
What do you recommend then? I know nothing about lighting. I've always just
used the regular bulbs from Lowe's, WW ect. They're usually a few bucks
each and I replace them maybe every 18 months to 2 years. I really should
write the dates on them. Light Output ranges from 2000 to 6500.
--

RM....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:24:14 -0600, Reel McKoi wrote:

I found if I change mine about every 18 to 24 months or so, I
do not get black algae and I do not add any FE to my tanks.......I add
very little of any kind of fertilizer and everything does just
great..........

* I have to use a fertilizer or the plants lose color (go chlorotic) and
start to fail. Even with aquarium plant fertilizer the vals are starting to
fail.

Are you using fertilizer tablets or a liquid? I bury one of the tablets
under each plant as I plant it. Seems to last at least a year and by then
I'm ready to re-landscape :-).

The reason I ask is that I read somewhere that the buried tablets don't
encourage algae as much as the liquid fertilizers do.

On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 21:23:39 -0600, Reel McKoi wrote:

What does Kelvin mean? Where would I find that information?

Most of the better bulbs will have it listed on them as, for example,
"6500K" where the K stands for Kelvin. BTW, 6500K seems to work for me.

On Dec 20, 11:04*pm, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:24:14 -0600, Reel McKoi wrote:
I found if I change mine about every 18 to 24 months or so, I
do not get black algae and I do not add any FE to my tanks.......I add
very little of any kind of fertilizer and everything does just
great..........

* I have to use a fertilizer or the plants lose color (go chlorotic) and
start to fail. Even with aquarium plant fertilizer the vals are starting to
fail.

Are you using fertilizer tablets or a liquid? *I bury one of the tablets
under each plant as I plant it. *Seems to last at least a year and by then
I'm ready to re-landscape :-).

The reason I ask is that I read somewhere that the buried tablets don't
encourage algae as much as the liquid fertilizers do.

Exactly.............bury or push the tablet in under the plants as you
plant them and the feertilizer lasts a lot long and does not lead to
algae growth.......I use pieces of regular ppond plant tablets on
occassion but most times I go without any additional fertilizer.
Pushing the fertilizer in under the substrate and plant puts more of
it for use by the plant instead of free floating around the tank in
liquid or dissolved form for algae to use.

On Dec 20, 9:29*pm, "Reel McKoi" wrote:
"Tynk" wrote in message

...I would not be afraid to bet, with proper kelvin ratings on the bulbs
you could get by with two or even one bulb *@ 40Watts each on a 55 gal
tank without a problem..provided they are not too far off the surface
of the water. For proper light dispersal, the reflectors really need
to be polished metal (alum or stainless).......If I was a gambling
individual, I would bet your lights are your main problem in regards
to plant growth.

==============================
What do you recommend then? *I know nothing about lighting. I've always just
used the regular bulbs from Lowe's, WW ect. *They're usually a few bucks
each and I replace them maybe every 18 months to 2 years. *I really should
write the dates on them. *Light Output ranges from 2000 to 6500.
--

RM....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
Zone 6. *Middle TN USA
~~~~ *}((((* *~~~ * }{{{{(ö

If those are the bulbs your using its no wonder your having black
alage troubles..............YOu can expect to pay much more for a
proper bulb than the general run of the mill florescent bulbs form WW
or Lowes etc. Things is those bulbs may be sufficient most times to
provide light for plants that are not submerged, but aquarium plants
are submerged. NOw to us in viewing the tank the water may appear
clean and clear, but its not really..........and it does not take much
distance under the water to eat up what specturm of light is available
and produce poor results. Those big box store bulbs just do not have
the proper spectrum to provide plants with what they need.........(gro
lux included) The vast majority of bulbs that come with aquariums and
hoods etc are geared at being trhe cheapest available and only suited
for minimal plant at most growth but mainly aimed at enabling the
person to see their fish, and fish do not really require any specific
light specturm to grow and thrive.its for human benefit that the tanks
are illuminated........

Lighting can get confusing in lots of cases and just using a piece of
egg crate over the top of a fish tank to prevent fish from jumping out
can also distort and cause light to spill "outside" the tank and not
inside where its needed, but the human eye does not really see it that
way as were looking at general illumination and brightness we actually
see.........even though its light outside the tank where it does not
do any good at all. Believe it or not, egg crate grill which is
commonly used for aquarium tank tops has a proper side to put down and
as much as 65% of the light can be wasted if its not placed properly.
Take a bucket, a plain white clean plastic bucket or other container.
(has to be white) and fill it with water out of the
tap.....................and then take a container of whater from the
fish tank............notice how the tanks water is discolored or a
pale yellow or off color, but its not clear like fresh tap water is?
Well thats caused by dissolved organics and proteins. That
discoloration alone can influenece how much light actually penetrates
to the plants deeper down in the tank, and were looking at an average
of 16+ inches on an average 29 gal or greater sized
tank............................so by traveling down that distance in
discolored water your getting very very little of any benefits of the
light, but what light your getting is ample and of the correct wave
length to grow black alage and other things...........such as dark
green plants...........So on top of dissolved junk discoloring the
water your water is tea colored from leaves etc it only compounds gthe
problems. The plants need to utilize light waves inthe red and yuellow
catagory and these colors are lost early on in the water column.
Plants use yellow and red spectrums for photosynthesis.and common shop
light bulbs just do not have the proper phosphors needed to generate
those colors especially at depths......I know you have heard the watts
per gal rule.but thats really a crock of crap............and not
worth playing with............it really has no merit. Using that rule
you would have sufficeint wattage, but its not wattage alone that is
needed, besides your actual color spectrums are not reaching the
plants for them to benefit.

Be prepared to pay much more than a few bucks a bulb for a 40 watt
bulb thats correct for underwater plants.

On Dec 20, 11:06*pm, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 21:23:39 -0600, Reel McKoi wrote:
What does Kelvin mean? Where would I find that information?

Most of the better bulbs will have it listed on them as, for example,
"6500K" where the K stands for Kelvin. *BTW, 6500K seems to work for me.

65ooK may work in lots of appications especially if none of the
p[lants are light demanding, and water depth is not
excessive.......but its all together possible that one may have to
also include higher kelvin rating as well...7500K or even a 10K as its
all dependant on water clarity, depth, amount of plants, water
parameters in so myuch as nutrients available, and quanity of lights
and how high lights are off the top of the tanks..............Usually
one can get by without 10K in most FW tanks, as 10K washes out a loot
of colors and may also cause plants to be just as poor as too little
of light. In a SW tank critters placed under too bright of light will
actually melt or bleach out.........and FW is no different except they
usually bleach out or fail to grow and thrive......and algae is kick
started............Only real method is use a PAR meter, but since PAR
meters are not cheap, about all one can do is experiment.........and
let the shop bulbs for household use not in an aquarium unless its a
fish only tank with plastic plants.

RM.......go to Big ALs and read about the various light bulbs in the
discriptions...........or go to Drs Foster and Smith as they also have
a few articles on what bulbs to use for what..........its just minor
info they give but may give you more ideas overall. The sal****er
world gets more into lighting than FW folks seem to, but the same
principals apply..........

On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 21:23:39 -0600, Reel McKoi wrote:
What does Kelvin mean? Where would I find that information?

Kelvin "K" is the term used to describe what "color" temperature a
bulb radiates.............nothing to do with farenheit or celsius
temperatures. .................Odds are your monitor has a temperature
adjustment on its controls...........or it may be called color
correctness control.............your TV also has it..............and
to make things right with lots of plants and halt headaches from algae
its necessary to have the correct color temps from the
lights...........the descriptions "Warm Sun, Cool", etc may work ok
for shop lights and womens makeup colors in general but are too varied
and loose to be applied to aquarium lighting in general if one is
intent to properly keep live plants of various species without algae
and other hassles........but like I said be prepared to spend much
more than a couple of bucks per bulb.........and your gonna have to
spend it every 18 or so months since the wave length or color
specturms shift...........after use.

"Tynk" wrote in message
...

Brevity snip of good information

Be prepared to pay much more than a few bucks a bulb for a 40 watt
bulb thats correct for underwater plants.
==================================
What bulbs do you recommend? These are 55g tanks about 20" high, about 18"
from the gravel to water surface. The plants are the usual mix of vals,
crypts, water wisteria, ruby hygrophila, Java moss and fern, ludwigia etc.
I'll see if I can find them locally if you give me a brand name etc. And how
many bulbs per tank do you recommend? It seems the tanks are too dark with
only two 40w bulbs per tank.
--

RM....

Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

"Larry Blanchard" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 21:23:39 -0600, Reel McKoi wrote:

What does Kelvin mean? Where would I find that information?

Most of the better bulbs will have it listed on them as, for example,
"6500K" where the K stands for Kelvin. BTW, 6500K seems to work for me.
======================================
All I see is the wattage, length and "output." Is the output and Kelvin the
same thing? I can get bulbs with an output from 2000 to 6500. As I recall
the packages said Output 2200 etc.
--

RM....
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

"Tynk" wrote in message
...
RM.......go to Big ALs and read about the various light bulbs in the
discriptions...........or go to Drs Foster and Smith as they also have
a few articles on what bulbs to use for what..........its just minor
info they give but may give you more ideas overall. The sal****er
world gets more into lighting than FW folks seem to, but the same
principals apply..........
===========================
Will do. The last time I tried to find the best bulbs I ended up more
confused than when I started.
--

RM....
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö