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![]() "AquariumFatasies" wrote in message ... On Dec 24, 7:55 pm, "Reel McKoi" wrote: I did add another rubberlip pleco to that tank today. Massive water changes and serious gravel vacuuming has made no difference either. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ OK, now were getting somewhere. Regular old shop lights with a with reflector. That is most likely the main problem. First off, the reflectors on those lights are made to reflect light from a height so yuo get decent light dispersion. * No. They have the shade thing on the sides to direct the light downward. They come that way. The tanks are very bright. The light reflected is made to disperse out and cover a wide area (cone of dispersion) and that they are that close to a tank and only have a short distance to travel until the light hits the substrate and is reflected out or back,. odds are the majority of your light is being reflected "OUTSIDE" the tank itself, * The light is reflected down due to the side things on the reflectors. and not as much inside the tank as you really think is there. White reflectors is sufficient in most cases for a shop light however it does little to nothing for good results in a fish tank, but its still better than black. I'll bet you a coffee that proper bulbs (no more than 2x40Wattaers of the correct kelvin temps and "PROPER" reflectors will be more than enough light for "ANY" Freshwater palnts you can possibly grow in a 55 gal tank. * These provide enough LIGHT to grow plants successfully - until the algae starts growing on them. Once the algae attacks them, either the red (I call black) or green algae, their growth stops. I was told that Flourish Excel would kill off the algae by an old timer on these groups. That wasn't true. It seems to stimulate the algae. ..............People underestimate the reflectors on a fish tank and next to the proper lamp itself they are very important. If yu have the right light bulb, and can not get it to disperse properly you may as well use any old lamp as your not getting the full benefit out of them. * Which is the right bulb in preventing red and green algae? And are they guaranteed to work? If one doesn't work do I have to keep buying and throwing out one bulb after another? I honestly never heard of a bulb that allowed aquarium plants to thrive but not algae. I am sure you or your better half can nail and cut a few boards.Why not get some 1 x 6 pine and fashion up a quick and dirty wooden hood for a fish tank (do one tank to start) nothuing needs to b e fancey, and just look at how some hoods are made in places like Petco er ah make that Deathco. A simple wooden frame box, with a few slats of 1 x 2 spaced apart on top to allow heat and ventilation to escape, and also provides a place to mount lights under. If yu want some pics I can post URL of a few sites that has simple yet effective aquarium hoods that are easy enough to make. Then pay Big Als or another online vendor a call, and purchase proper reflectors and attach them to the metal white reflectors all ready on yuor shop lights......or retro fit ballast and sockets etc from shop lights into the wooden hood..and install proper bulbs. * I'm not at all handy with tools and making things out of wood. And how will that get rid of the algae? Also, I really don't want to have to lift a heavy wood hood every time I feed the fish or want to remove algae from the front glass. I never heard of any reflectors or bulbs that caused plants to thrive but not algae. I can't afford to try one bulb after the other..... ......................done..............a quick stain is all thats needed to finish it off..............and maybe a top coat of clear sealer like polyurethane or varnish............I can just about guarantee, your black algae problems will be over and you can grow virtually any freshwater plant around then in these aquariums. * Why would the algae problems be over? The Flourish Excel was supposed to do that and it does nothing. It doesn't even help the plants grow. It's a rip-off like so many products these days. I don't follow your logic here with the wood reflector. The units come with shade type reflectors that direct the light downwards. The lights would be a much different inmprovement that will be benefical and work. Flourish Excel may work but its not going to take the palce of having a proper lighting setup. * What bulbs are the proper bulbs that allow plant but not algae growth? I found no such bulbs online. Which are you using? The lights you have now are fine and dandy for a fish only tank or with a few low light requirement plants, but still leave a lot to b e desired overall as the color specturm and kelvin is totally wrong. * Then what is the correct spectrum and Kelvin to allow plant but not algae growth and do they guarantee them or will I go broke replacing bulbs? Your plants as well as your fish will all look and grow better, well the plants will anyhow, because fish for thr most part are not reliant on linghts like a plant is, but I bet the colors in the fish will be much more vibrant. I believe lighting is about the most important item that can be done to a fish tank that is going to have live plants or corals in p lace and the person with the tank is totally committed to having nice plants and corals growing, than almost any other thing that can be done to a tank. Heck even the cheapest filters around will do a decent job of what they are designed for, but a light is not that way.............a cheap light setup will not do a thing for a fish tank other than provide illumination for the tanks owner to see whats inside.................. Once proper lights are in place * Which are the proper lights and do they guarantee no algae? The Flourish Excel was supposed to take care of algae. it may take a few weeks to a month or two to get lighting schedule worked out, but odds are in that time frame your plants are gonna start to kick ass and things will look better every day........... * Yep! That's what they said on the plant NG (RAFP) about the Flourish Excel. ...Like I said propper bulbs and reflectors in a home brew hood is not even in the same league as adding supplements to a tank.......... Eveyone tells me something different. The FE was supposed to do magic along with water changes and gravel vacuuming. They swore that was the answer. A homemade hood is out of the question. I don't know anyone who could make it for me and I don't want to have to lift down a heavy wood hood every time I want to feed my fish. I see no connection between a homemade hood and alge. So which bulbs are guaranteed to get rid of the algae and did you have the same conditions I have? If they're not guaranteed to work I wont keep throwing money away on bulb after bulb. -- RM.... Zone 6. Middle TN USA ~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö |
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On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 11:28:59 -0600, Reel McKoi wrote:
* Which is the right bulb in preventing red and green algae? And are they guaranteed to work? If one doesn't work do I have to keep buying and throwing out one bulb after another? I honestly never heard of a bulb that allowed aquarium plants to thrive but not algae. There is no easy solution to algae. If it's the flat type that grows on the glass, I just scrape it off the front and leave it on the sides and back. If it's the hairy type that grows on the plants and the gravel, the only solution I've found is manual removal. As soon as you see algae on a leaf, cut off that leaf. I've sometimes removed as much as half of a plant at one time. They always grow back :-). |
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![]() "Larry Blanchard" wrote in message news ![]() On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 11:28:59 -0600, Reel McKoi wrote: * Which is the right bulb in preventing red and green algae? And are they guaranteed to work? If one doesn't work do I have to keep buying and throwing out one bulb after another? I honestly never heard of a bulb that allowed aquarium plants to thrive but not algae. There is no easy solution to algae. If it's the flat type that grows on the glass, I just scrape it off the front and leave it on the sides and back. If it's the hairy type that grows on the plants and the gravel, the only solution I've found is manual removal. As soon as you see algae on a leaf, cut off that leaf. I've sometimes removed as much as half of a plant at one time. They always grow back :-). =============================== It's the velvety red (black) algae that covers and smothers the plants. It doesn't grow on one leaf or a few leaves but covers everything including the glass and gravel. I scrape it off the glass but can't get it off plants. They'd be leafless. Then there's the short soft green algae. But there's not too much of the green stuff. It hit like gangbusters when I changed the old cool and warm bulbs a few weeks back. They were over a year old. It could have been a coincidence though. I had something like this happen about 2 years ago and it disappeared, on it's own, as quickly as it appeared. -- RM.... Zone 6. Middle TN USA ~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö |
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On Dec 25, 5:26*pm, "Reel McKoi" wrote:
"Larry Blanchard" wrote in message news ![]() * Which is the right bulb in preventing red and green algae? *And are they guaranteed to work? *If one doesn't work do I have to keep buying and throwing out one bulb after another? *I honestly never heard of a bulb that allowed aquarium plants to thrive but not algae. There is no easy solution to algae. *If it's the flat type that grows on the glass, I just scrape it off the front and leave it on the sides and back. *If it's the hairy type that grows on the plants and the gravel, the only solution I've found is manual removal. *As soon as you see algae on a leaf, cut off that leaf. *I've sometimes removed as much as half of a plant at one time. *They always grow back :-). =============================== It's the velvety red (black) algae that covers and smothers the plants. *It doesn't grow on one leaf or a few leaves but covers everything including the glass and gravel. *I scrape it off the glass but can't get it off plants.. They'd be leafless. *Then there's the short soft green algae. *But there's not too much of the green stuff. *It hit like gangbusters when I changed the old cool and warm bulbs a few weeks back. They were over a year old. *It could have been a coincidence though. *I had something like this happen about 2 years ago and it disappeared, on it's own, as quickly as it appeared. -- RM.... Zone 6. *Middle TN USA ~~~~ *}((((* *~~~ * }{{{{(ö The so called devils algae or black algae normally only covers plant leaves or filter media..........it is usually a very dark green or black in color algae. HP method I described in other pst wil kill this stuff but the key is keeping it gone and thats gonna take good water parameters, proper lights and sufficieint current flow. If its a cyano type algae often called red slime or black slime then an anti-biotic dose will knock this stuff out as its just like ther blue green algae that is often seen with a new tank when it gets cloudy looking. Maracin (sp?) will work as will Red Slime Remover, which is normally sold for sal****er tanks but works well in freshwater tanks too.............but the process of using an antibiotic to knock it out will also affect yur bio filtration as well so pull your media and place in another tank until your treatment is over with........ Hair algae can be good up to a point anyhow, but control how much and what you feed and that usually handles HA pretty well.........along with proper lightin g scheduels etc. You may not be able to Eliminate" algae, but its certainly possible to keep it under control and managed so its not a problem, even if a bit of it is there. Not much overall that can be done for the light algae that will grow on the glass except routine clenaing of glass with a MAG float etc, as just room lights can kick that stuff into growing........ |
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![]() "AquariumFatasies" wrote in message ... The so called devils algae or black algae normally only covers plant leaves or filter media..........it is usually a very dark green or black in color algae. HP method I described in other pst wil kill this stuff but the key is keeping it gone and thats gonna take good water parameters, proper lights and sufficieint current flow. * This is another issue. I have to add more current. I thought of that also. All I have are the Aquaclears at one end of these 55g tanks. I need to replace the air-pump and stones. I also have powerheads but they always get clogged with plant debris in these tanks so I removed them. They're not made to go on tubes so I can't hook sponges on them. If its a cyano type algae often called red slime or black slime then an anti-biotic dose will knock this stuff out as its just like ther blue green algae that is often seen with a new tank when it gets cloudy looking. Maracin (sp?) will work as will Red Slime Remover, which is normally sold for sal****er tanks but works well in freshwater tanks too.............but the process of using an antibiotic to knock it out will also affect yur bio filtration as well so pull your media and place in another tank until your treatment is over with........ * No, it's not cyano. I haven't had that problem in years. Hair algae can be good up to a point anyhow, but control how much and what you feed and that usually handles HA pretty well.........along with proper lightin g scheduels etc. You may not be able to Eliminate" algae, but its certainly possible to keep it under control and managed so its not a problem, even if a bit of it is there. Not much overall that can be done for the light algae that will grow on the glass except routine clenaing of glass with a MAG float etc, as just room lights can kick that stuff into growing........ * That green algae doen't kill the plants like this black-red stuff does. This stuff is also very ugly making the tank look filthy. I'm going to pick up the HP in town this week. -- RM.... Zone 6. Middle TN USA ~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö |
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Reel McKoi said the following on 12/25/2007 11:17 PM:
"AquariumFatasies" wrote in message ... The so called devils algae or black algae normally only covers plant leaves or filter media..........it is usually a very dark green or black in color algae. HP method I described in other pst wil kill this stuff but the key is keeping it gone and thats gonna take good water parameters, proper lights and sufficieint current flow. * This is another issue. I have to add more current. I thought of that also. All I have are the Aquaclears at one end of these 55g tanks. I need to replace the air-pump and stones. I also have powerheads but they always get clogged with plant debris in these tanks so I removed them. They're not made to go on tubes so I can't hook sponges on them. One thing you can do for filters is what I did in my tank. I had 2 power heads that didn't have the pieces on the bottom for the "tube" (for an undergravel filter) on them. I found two rocks that had holes in them (you can find them at the Pet Stores), made the holes large enough for the filters I wanted to use, put the filter in the rock, then used zip ties to fasten the powerhead to the rock. Then I put four small rocks under the corners to "raise" it off the gravel. To date, I have not had any problems with them. Having the large rock up off the bottom allows the water flow from the bottom instead of creating a "dead zone" around the base of the rock. Then I put the rocks where I couldn't see them (behind plants). The biggest problem I had was fooling with them to get the situated to get the flow pattern that I wanted. -- Randy Chance Favors The Prepared Mind |
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![]() "Randy Webb" wrote in message ... Brevity snips The biggest problem I had was fooling with them to get the situated to get the flow pattern that I wanted. ======================= Mine will stay in place. The problem is the intake slots clog quickly with plant debris. Or bits of plant debris get pulled through the intake slots and clog up the impeller. ![]() -- RM.... Zone 6. Middle TN USA ~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö |
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In rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants Reel McKoi wrote:
: : "AquariumFatasies" wrote in message : ... : On Dec 24, 7:55 pm, "Reel McKoi" wrote: : I did add another rubberlip pleco to that tank today. Massive water : changes : and serious gravel vacuuming has made no difference either. : ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : OK, now were getting somewhere. Regular old shop lights with a with : reflector. That is most likely the main problem. First off, the : reflectors on those lights are made to reflect light from a height so : yuo get decent light dispersion. The typical shop light reflector isn't that good, but it's not really much worse than the polished box reflector found in the vast majority of commercial aquarium fixtures. Ideally, something of a parabolic reflector for each tube works best at sending light straight down into the tank where one gets maximum penetration in deeper tanks. A commercial (and very expensive) fixture that does an excellent job at this is the T5 HO TekLight. The typical polished rectangular box doesn't send light down into the tank, but tends to bounce it around until it hits one of the fluorescent tubes. (The exercise of comparing a pseudo-parabolic reflector against a rectangular box via a geometry diagram is left to the reader.) Manufacturers compensate for the bad reflector by adding more tubes to the unit. These fixtures do work OK and the extra tubes aren't really much of an issue unless you have more than a few tanks which makes one much more interested in conserving electricity to reduce a very high electricity bill. I grow plants with highly efficient Tek Lights, and less effective polished box reflector fixtures. Both do OK. Medium light tanks are more forgiving, so those tanks get my old less efficient reflector light fixtures. As for algae and light, it gets tricker the more light you add to the aquarium. So for beginners, I recommend starting out with medium light level plants with a medium light level fixture. A cheap shop light with a simple reflector will do the job for this. It's not as effective as one with a parabolic reflector, but for medium light, it will be good enough. Bulbs are _not_ the primary cause algae, it's the water conditions. Adding more light just speeds up the growth of everything (desirable plants and algae). Poor water conditions under medium light will require you to monthly scrape off ugly algae. Poor water conditions under very high light will require you to daily scrape off ugly algae. My philosophy is that for the first year, it's better to take the cheap route and get some successes with easy-to-grow medium light plants than to take the expensive high risk route where it takes some real skill and experience to keep algae at bay. : * No. They have the shade thing on the sides to direct the light downward. : They come that way. The tanks are very bright. : : The light reflected is made to : disperse out and cover a wide area (cone of dispersion) and that they : are that close to a tank and only have a short distance to travel : until the light hits the substrate and is reflected out or back,. odds : are the majority of your light is being reflected "OUTSIDE" the tank : itself, : : * The light is reflected down due to the side things on the reflectors. : : and not as much inside the tank as you really think is there. : White reflectors is sufficient in most cases for a shop light however : it does little to nothing for good results in a fish tank, but its : still better than black. I'll bet you a coffee that proper bulbs (no : more than 2x40Wattaers of the correct kelvin temps and "PROPER" : reflectors will be more than enough light for "ANY" Freshwater palnts : you can possibly grow in a 55 gal tank. : : * These provide enough LIGHT to grow plants successfully - until the algae : starts growing on them. Once the algae attacks them, either the red (I call : black) or green algae, their growth stops. I was told that Flourish Excel : would kill off the algae by an old timer on these groups. That wasn't true. : It seems to stimulate the algae. : : .............People : underestimate the reflectors on a fish tank and next to the proper : lamp itself they are very important. If yu have the right light bulb, : and can not get it to disperse properly you may as well use any old : lamp as your not getting the full benefit out of them. : : * Which is the right bulb in preventing red and green algae? And are they : guaranteed to work? If one doesn't work do I have to keep buying and : throwing out one bulb after another? I honestly never heard of a bulb that : allowed aquarium plants to thrive but not algae. : : I am sure you or your better half can nail and cut a few boards.Why : not get some 1 x 6 pine and fashion up a quick and dirty wooden hood : for a fish tank (do one tank to start) nothuing needs to b e fancey, : and just look at how some hoods are made in places like Petco er ah : make that Deathco. A simple wooden frame box, with a few slats of 1 x : 2 spaced apart on top to allow heat and ventilation to escape, and : also provides a place to mount lights under. If yu want some pics I : can post URL of a few sites that has simple yet effective aquarium : hoods that are easy enough to make. Then pay Big Als or another online : vendor a call, and purchase proper reflectors and attach them to the : metal white reflectors all ready on yuor shop lights......or retro fit : ballast and sockets etc from shop lights into the wooden hood..and : install proper bulbs. : : * I'm not at all handy with tools and making things out of wood. And how : will that get rid of the algae? Also, I really don't want to have to lift a : heavy wood hood every time I feed the fish or want to remove algae from the : front glass. I never heard of any reflectors or bulbs that caused plants to : thrive but not algae. I can't afford to try one bulb after the other..... : : .....................done..............a quick : stain is all thats needed to finish it off..............and maybe a : top coat of clear sealer like polyurethane or varnish............I can : just about guarantee, your black algae problems will be over and you : can grow virtually any freshwater plant around then in these : aquariums. : : * Why would the algae problems be over? The Flourish Excel was supposed to : do that and it does nothing. It doesn't even help the plants grow. It's a : rip-off like so many products these days. I don't follow your logic here : with the wood reflector. The units come with shade type reflectors that : direct the light downwards. : : The lights would be a much different inmprovement that : will be benefical and work. Flourish Excel may work but its not going : to take the palce of having a proper lighting setup. : : * What bulbs are the proper bulbs that allow plant but not algae growth? I : found no such bulbs online. Which are you using? : : The lights you : have now are fine and dandy for a fish only tank or with a few low : light requirement plants, but still leave a lot to b e desired overall : as the color specturm and kelvin is totally wrong. : : * Then what is the correct spectrum and Kelvin to allow plant but not algae : growth and do they guarantee them or will I go broke replacing bulbs? : : Your plants as well : as your fish will all look and grow better, well the plants will : anyhow, because fish for thr most part are not reliant on linghts like : a plant is, but I bet the colors in the fish will be much more : vibrant. I believe lighting is about the most important item that can : be done to a fish tank that is going to have live plants or corals in : p lace and the person with the tank is totally committed to having : nice plants and corals growing, than almost any other thing that can : be done to a tank. Heck even the cheapest filters around will do a : decent job of what they are designed for, but a light is not that : way.............a cheap light setup will not do a thing for a fish : tank other than provide illumination for the tanks owner to see whats : inside.................. : : Once proper lights are in place : : * Which are the proper lights and do they guarantee no algae? The Flourish : Excel was supposed to take care of algae. : : it may take a : few weeks to a month or two to get lighting schedule worked out, but : odds are in that time frame your plants are gonna start to kick ass : and things will look better every day........... : : * Yep! That's what they said on the plant NG (RAFP) about the Flourish : Excel. : : ..Like I said propper : bulbs and reflectors in a home brew hood is not even in the same : league as adding supplements to a tank.......... : : Eveyone tells me something different. The FE was supposed to do magic along : with water changes and gravel vacuuming. They swore that was the answer. A : homemade hood is out of the question. I don't know anyone who could make it : for me and I don't want to have to lift down a heavy wood hood every time I : want to feed my fish. I see no connection between a homemade hood and alge. : : So which bulbs are guaranteed to get rid of the algae and did you have the : same conditions I have? If they're not guaranteed to work I wont keep : throwing money away on bulb after bulb. |
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![]() "g_i_n_k_o" wrote in message ... In rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants Reel McKoi wrote: : OK, now were getting somewhere. Regular old shop lights with a with : reflector. That is most likely the main problem. First off, the : reflectors on those lights are made to reflect light from a height so : yuo get decent light dispersion. The typical shop light reflector isn't that good, but it's not really much worse than the polished box reflector found in the vast majority of commercial aquarium fixtures. Ideally, something of a parabolic reflector for each tube works best at sending light straight down into the tank where one gets maximum penetration in deeper tanks. A commercial (and very expensive) fixture that does an excellent job at this is the T5 HO TekLight. The typical polished rectangular box doesn't send light down into the tank, but tends to bounce it around until it hits one of the fluorescent tubes. (The exercise of comparing a pseudo-parabolic reflector against a rectangular box via a geometry diagram is left to the reader.) Manufacturers compensate for the bad reflector by adding more tubes to the unit. These fixtures do work OK and the extra tubes aren't really much of an issue unless you have more than a few tanks which makes one much more interested in conserving electricity to reduce a very high electricity bill. I grow plants with highly efficient Tek Lights, and less effective polished box reflector fixtures. Both do OK. Medium light tanks are more forgiving, so those tanks get my old less efficient reflector light fixtures. As for algae and light, it gets tricker the more light you add to the aquarium. So for beginners, I recommend starting out with medium light level plants with a medium light level fixture. A cheap shop light with a simple reflector will do the job for this. It's not as effective as one with a parabolic reflector, but for medium light, it will be good enough. Bulbs are _not_ the primary cause algae, it's the water conditions. Adding more light just speeds up the growth of everything (desirable plants and algae). Poor water conditions under medium light will require you to monthly scrape off ugly algae. Poor water conditions under very high light will require you to daily scrape off ugly algae. My philosophy is that for the first year, it's better to take the cheap route and get some successes with easy-to-grow medium light plants than to take the expensive high risk route where it takes some real skill and experience to keep algae at bay. =============================================== I'm starting to think it's the nitrates and phosphates that come right from my tap! And the rain water I'm using is catching dust and providing more algae nutrients........ a losing battle unless I go for some expensive pads to remove these nutrients. -- RM.... Frugal ponding since 1995. rec.ponder since late 1996. Zone 6. Middle TN USA ~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö |
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In rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants Reel McKoi wrote:
: : I'm starting to think it's the nitrates and phosphates that come right from : my tap! And the rain water I'm using is catching dust and providing more : algae nutrients........ a losing battle unless I go for some expensive pads : to remove these nutrients. As a rule to conserve money, I try to avoid all things that have expensive replacement pads, cartridges and other such items. I don't believe in most of them as to actually working as advertised. ![]() One exception is a good Reverse Osmosis unit. It needs replacement cartridges about once a year. The RO water is pretty pure and I add back the desired hardness with baking soda and something called GH Booster that I get really cheap from aquariumfertilizer.com. The waste water comes after the carbon block filter, so I use this for hard water tanks (i.e. goldfish and most live bearers). So the money I would have spent on de-chlor chemicals instead goes into replacement RO system filter cartridges. Another exception is a CO2 tank with regulator. This really helps and once you have the system, it only costs around $20.00 for a refill that lasts more than 6 months. I wouldn't even try growing plants in a high light setup without adding CO2. Then you need to follow a fertilizer dosing schedule. I use something called the "Estimative Index". Do a google search on "Tom Barr" "Estimative Index" to get the details. I get raw chemicals for nutrients at aquariumfertilizer.com and follow the plan with the 50 percent weekly water change. There are other plans out there, but EI works well for me. Most of my hight light tank problems went away when I started doing the above three things. There are other ways to do this, but it works for me and is relatively inexpensive (long-term) compared to other ways. For medium light tanks with fish, you don' need to do much of this. I have good success by using hard or RO softened water and just adding trace elements once a week or so. The fish poop provides enough macro nutrients for a medium light tank. It's much simpler, so that's why I suggest people start out with something easier before doing the high light, high maintenance tank. Hope this is helpful. There are many ways to do this. I think this is one of the easiest and least expensive ways. |
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