RM...........here are some links to some good sites that have the proper bulbs

"Randy Webb" wrote in message
...

Now, you have to figure out how to attach a filter to it. The solution I
came up with was to take a rock that I had (I saw some similar in Petco).
It has holes in the rock. I put a filter inside that hole.

What are you using for a filter? A sponge on the end of the intake?

Then,
you sit the power head on top of the filter, so that the intake for the
power head is inside the filter. Any water that goes into the power head
has to go through that filter.

Then, you have to figure out how to secure the power head to the filter.
What I used are the ties that you can buy in Walmart. Cable ties. They
sell them in the Automotive section. They also sell them at Lowes and Home
Depot. They come in packs anywhere from a few to hundreds.

What kind of sponge are you using for a filter? You can just cut a hole in
the sponge and stick the intake in it.

The purpose of the rock was to give it a stable base so that the filter
wouldn't get crushed onto the pumps. Put the pump on the filter, then
Cable Tie it all together. It is that simple. You are going to have to be
innovative or change power heads.

So every week or so you have to clean the sponge filter and replace the
ties?

Are you talking about a sponge filter on it's intake screen? Not all of
these powerhead-like water pumps come with screens you can pull a sponge
over.

I can't even find that type of filter here. I hunted one and had to come
up with a solution of my own. None of it would have happened if my wife
hadn't decided that since she could feed dog food to the fish at the dock
that mine would eat it too and dumped a hand full of dog food into the
tank. I was stubborn enough to want to figure out how to clear it up
without having to change all the water.

If you can't find these "filters" I probably wont either. Is it a sponge? I
have no idea what you're talking about.


Right now, my digital camera battery is in the charger being recharged. I
have to do some work on the tank and will try to take some pictures and
post them online so you can see how I made it.

Yes, I would love to see what they look like. :-)
--

RM....
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

"g_i_n_k_o" wrote in message
...
In rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants Reel McKoi
wrote:
: OK, now were getting somewhere. Regular old shop lights with a with
: reflector. That is most likely the main problem. First off, the
: reflectors on those lights are made to reflect light from a height so
: yuo get decent light dispersion.

The typical shop light reflector isn't that good, but it's not
really much worse than the polished box reflector found in the
vast majority of commercial aquarium fixtures.

Ideally, something of a parabolic reflector for each tube works
best at sending light straight down into the tank where one gets
maximum penetration in deeper tanks. A commercial (and very
expensive) fixture that does an excellent job at this is the
T5 HO TekLight.

The typical polished rectangular box doesn't send light down into
the tank, but tends to bounce it around until it hits one of the
fluorescent tubes. (The exercise of comparing a pseudo-parabolic
reflector against a rectangular box via a geometry diagram is left
to the reader.) Manufacturers compensate for the bad reflector
by adding more tubes to the unit. These fixtures do work OK and
the extra tubes aren't really much of an issue unless you have
more than a few tanks which makes one much more interested in
conserving electricity to reduce a very high electricity bill.

I grow plants with highly efficient Tek Lights, and less effective
polished box reflector fixtures. Both do OK. Medium light tanks
are more forgiving, so those tanks get my old less efficient
reflector light fixtures.

As for algae and light, it gets tricker the more light you add
to the aquarium. So for beginners, I recommend starting out with
medium light level plants with a medium light level fixture.
A cheap shop light with a simple reflector will do the job for
this. It's not as effective as one with a parabolic reflector,
but for medium light, it will be good enough.

Bulbs are _not_ the primary cause algae, it's the water conditions.
Adding more light just speeds up the growth of everything (desirable
plants and algae). Poor water conditions under medium light will
require you to monthly scrape off ugly algae. Poor water conditions
under very high light will require you to daily scrape off ugly algae.

My philosophy is that for the first year, it's better to take the
cheap route and get some successes with easy-to-grow medium light
plants than to take the expensive high risk route where it takes
some real skill and experience to keep algae at bay.
===============================================
I'm starting to think it's the nitrates and phosphates that come right from
my tap! And the rain water I'm using is catching dust and providing more
algae nutrients........ a losing battle unless I go for some expensive pads
to remove these nutrients.
--

RM....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

"ginko" wrote in message
...
In rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants Reel McKoi
wrote:
:
: "TSJ of course" wrote in message
:
...
: By the way, unlike like lamps
: specialy made for aquariums, ordinary house lamps would not light up
: the whole aquarium the same way.

There is considerable hype on aquaurium bulbs. The T8 (8/8ths of an inch
wide) fluorescent lamps do pretty good job. At some big bog hardware
stores,
you can get a 6500K spectrum bulb at $5.00 per 4 foot tube.

Where I live the 6500K's are $10 and that's at Wal*Mart.

It grows plants
really well for the money. Pick up one of the new-style shop lights with
an electronic ballast and a half-decent gull-wing reflector for about
$40.00. This low budget system will do a pretty good job at raising
plants. You might do better by using one 6500K tube and one plant
grow tube (Vitalight, GrowLux, ...) But this is still really cheap.

OK, we're talking two tanks = 4 reflectors and 8 bulbs. Ouch!

You could get better results with fancy $30.00 aquarium tubes, but they
won't be twice as good than the cheap $5.00 6500K and $15.00 plant
tubes.

I've had no luck with plant tubes. The tanks looked dark and the plants
stretched.

I have a better luck with algae by using a 6500K bulb instead of 4100K
"cool white" or the not-very-good 3500K "warm white" tubes.

I think I'll pick up a few 6500Ks.........

: I was assured over and over that algae turns white and falls
: off when FE is used. Although I found that almost impossible to believe,
: like a fool I bought the stuff. I bought a lot of it, and it's totally
: useless. Then the same man from the plant group tried to get me to
purchase
: some other expensive crap from his friend who sells fertilizers.

: spend well over $100 on bulbs and still have the algae problem. So you
can
: see why I hesitate to start buying expensive bulbs when the FE did
nothing.


I have had really good luck with Seachem Flourish Excel. It helps keep
my tank that tends to have a moderate algae problems to barely noticable
algae here and there. Please note that it does kill certain kinds of
plants (Vallisneria, Elodia (Anacharis), and Saggiteria. The product
is way too expensive unless you buy it in bulk by the gallon jug.

It is indeed expensive and we saw zero difference in either plant growth or
algae.

However, this product is not a cure-all. It's optimal for planted tank
that grows plants pretty well that also has pesky algae. It won't
transform an unsuccessful planted tank where the plants usually die into
an Amano-style masterpiece.

Actually my plants do very well under the cool and warm bulbs, unless
there's a serious algae bloom as I have now.
--

RM....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

In rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants Reel McKoi wrote:
:
: I'm starting to think it's the nitrates and phosphates that come right from
: my tap! And the rain water I'm using is catching dust and providing more
: algae nutrients........ a losing battle unless I go for some expensive pads
: to remove these nutrients.

As a rule to conserve money, I try to avoid all things that have expensive
replacement pads, cartridges and other such items. I don't believe in most
of them as to actually working as advertised.

One exception is a good Reverse Osmosis unit. It needs replacement cartridges
about once a year. The RO water is pretty pure and I add back the desired
hardness with baking soda and something called GH Booster that I get really
cheap from aquariumfertilizer.com. The waste water comes after the carbon
block filter, so I use this for hard water tanks (i.e. goldfish and most
live bearers). So the money I would have spent on de-chlor chemicals instead
goes into replacement RO system filter cartridges.

Another exception is a CO2 tank with regulator. This really helps and once
you have the system, it only costs around $20.00 for a refill that lasts more
than 6 months. I wouldn't even try growing plants in a high light setup without
adding CO2.

Then you need to follow a fertilizer dosing schedule. I use something called
the "Estimative Index". Do a google search on "Tom Barr" "Estimative Index"
to get the details. I get raw chemicals for nutrients at aquariumfertilizer.com
and follow the plan with the 50 percent weekly water change. There are other
plans out there, but EI works well for me.

Most of my hight light tank problems went away when I started doing the above
three things. There are other ways to do this, but it works for me and is
relatively inexpensive (long-term) compared to other ways.

For medium light tanks with fish, you don' need to do much of this. I have
good success by using hard or RO softened water and just adding trace elements
once a week or so. The fish poop provides enough macro nutrients for a
medium light tank. It's much simpler, so that's why I suggest people start
out with something easier before doing the high light, high maintenance tank.

Hope this is helpful. There are many ways to do this. I think this is one
of the easiest and least expensive ways.

In rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants Reel McKoi wrote:
:
: Where I live the 6500K's are $10 and that's at Wal*Mart.

I try to stay away from WalMart since they don't always treat their
workforce very well.

There is a place called Menards in the upper midwest. They sell
32 watt T8 Phillips Octron tubes for dirt cheap.

: I've had no luck with plant tubes. The tanks looked dark and the plants
: stretched.

I never use just plant tubes. I mix a plant bulb with a bulb that
provides light for a human eye.

: I have had really good luck with Seachem Flourish Excel. It helps keep
: my tank that tends to have a moderate algae problems to barely noticable
: algae here and there. Please note that it does kill certain kinds of
: plants (Vallisneria, Elodia (Anacharis), and Saggiteria. The product
: is way too expensive unless you buy it in bulk by the gallon jug.
:
: It is indeed expensive and we saw zero difference in either plant growth or
: algae.

This stuff completely cleared up a big mess in a very high light tank.
It also helps in some containers and tanks that don't have CO2 added
to them. But, this was used with an Estimative Index fertilizer
schedule. I haven't tried it with other growing methods.

: Actually my plants do very well under the cool and warm bulbs, unless
: there's a serious algae bloom as I have now.

That mix will work. It's been used for decades by people growing indoor
plants. However, many warm white bulbs don't have all that great of a
spectrum. You want red and blues for plants. In some 4100K tubes, the
red spikes were the same that were in the 3500K tube (The 3500K tube
was pretty much a 4100K tube, minus the blues...) So, sometimes two
good 4100K tubes will do better than a 4100K and a not-so-good 3500K.

From a personal aesthics point of view, a 6500K tube looks better to my
eye and is better at balancing up an ugly growLux tube. Of course,
others will prefer the look of another tube!

"g_i_n_k_o" wrote in message
...
In rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants Reel McKoi
wrote:
:
: I'm starting to think it's the nitrates and phosphates that come right
from
: my tap! And the rain water I'm using is catching dust and providing
more
: algae nutrients........ a losing battle unless I go for some expensive
pads
: to remove these nutrients.

As a rule to conserve money, I try to avoid all things that have expensive
replacement pads, cartridges and other such items. I don't believe in
most
of them as to actually working as advertised.

Actually I agree. There are loads of gimmick items out there that are
useless.

One exception is a good Reverse Osmosis unit. It needs replacement
cartridges
about once a year. The RO water is pretty pure and I add back the desired
hardness with baking soda and something called GH Booster that I get
really
cheap from aquariumfertilizer.com. The waste water comes after the
carbon
block filter, so I use this for hard water tanks (i.e. goldfish and most
live bearers). So the money I would have spent on de-chlor chemicals
instead
goes into replacement RO system filter cartridges.

I've been buying my dechlor (have ponds and tanks) by the 10lb bucket as
crystals.

Another exception is a CO2 tank with regulator. This really helps and
once
you have the system, it only costs around $20.00 for a refill that lasts
more
than 6 months. I wouldn't even try growing plants in a high light setup
without
adding CO2.

Where does the water in nature get the CO2 from?

Then you need to follow a fertilizer dosing schedule. I use something
called
the "Estimative Index". Do a google search on "Tom Barr" "Estimative
Index"
to get the details. I get raw chemicals for nutrients at
aquariumfertilizer.com
and follow the plan with the 50 percent weekly water change. There are
other
plans out there, but EI works well for me.

I'll Google that. I can't afford the Tom Barr stuff or CO2 injectors. These
things are not cheap. The shipping on Barr's fertilizers cost as much as the
products he sells.

Most of my hight light tank problems went away when I started doing the
above
three things. There are other ways to do this, but it works for me and is
relatively inexpensive (long-term) compared to other ways.

How much are you spending yearly for the fertilizers, the RO unit, the
electricity to run it etc?

For medium light tanks with fish, you don' need to do much of this. I
have
good success by using hard or RO softened water and just adding trace
elements
once a week or so. The fish poop provides enough macro nutrients for a
medium light tank. It's much simpler, so that's why I suggest people
start
out with something easier before doing the high light, high maintenance
tank.

I'm sure not into high-light, high-maintenance tanks. ;-)

Hope this is helpful. There are many ways to do this. I think this is
one
of the easiest and least expensive ways.

Give me a ballpark frigure on what you spent for the RO unit, CO2 injector
etc. And are you in the USA?

--

RM....

Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

"g_i_n_k_o" wrote in message
...
In rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants Reel McKoi
wrote:
:
: Where I live the 6500K's are $10 and that's at Wal*Mart.

I try to stay away from WalMart since they don't always treat their
workforce very well.

They treat them like crap but they have the best prices around. When you're
retired that matters. :-)

There is a place called Menards in the upper midwest. They sell
32 watt T8 Phillips Octron tubes for dirt cheap.

They wont fit in the 4' reflectors on 55g tanks. I Googled the name and
came up with loads of hits. I didn't find tubes. None of these stores are in
my state.

: I've had no luck with plant tubes. The tanks looked dark and the plants
: stretched.

I never use just plant tubes. I mix a plant bulb with a bulb that
provides light for a human eye.

: I have had really good luck with Seachem Flourish Excel. It helps
keep
: my tank that tends to have a moderate algae problems to barely
noticable
: algae here and there. Please note that it does kill certain kinds of
: plants (Vallisneria, Elodia (Anacharis), and Saggiteria. The product
: is way too expensive unless you buy it in bulk by the gallon jug.
:
: It is indeed expensive and we saw zero difference in either plant growth
or
: algae.

This stuff completely cleared up a big mess in a very high light tank.
It also helps in some containers and tanks that don't have CO2 added
to them. But, this was used with an Estimative Index fertilizer
schedule. I haven't tried it with other growing methods.

He knew I didn't have a high-light tank and couldn't afford the high cost of
Barr's products and shipping. I should have been told the truth right from
the start. I think it was a come-on to sell Barr's products.

: Actually my plants do very well under the cool and warm bulbs, unless
: there's a serious algae bloom as I have now.

That mix will work. It's been used for decades by people growing indoor
plants. However, many warm white bulbs don't have all that great of a
spectrum. You want red and blues for plants. In some 4100K tubes, the
red spikes were the same that were in the 3500K tube (The 3500K tube
was pretty much a 4100K tube, minus the blues...) So, sometimes two
good 4100K tubes will do better than a 4100K and a not-so-good 3500K.

From a personal aesthics point of view, a 6500K tube looks better to my
eye and is better at balancing up an ugly growLux tube. Of course,
others will prefer the look of another tube!

--

RM....
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

In rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants Reel McKoi wrote:
:
: Where does the water in nature get the CO2 from?
:

High tech, high light planted aquariums are not at all natural, they only
appear to be so :-)

In nature, a relatively small amount of CO2 dissolves into water. If you
super-saturate the water with CO2, plants that can barely survive at best
under water become showcase specimens. This is because CO2 is a primary
limiting factor in underwater plants.

Even in medium light, supplementing with CO2 doubles the growth of plants.
This tends to help the plants more than the algae, so it gives more
return for your effort than other costly things to try.

You can bubble your own CO2 with yeast, sugar and water in a 2 liter soda
bottle. It's a pain to keep feeding the yeast, but it's pretty cheap and
does a good job for many plants. Google "DIY CO2" should get some info to you.

: How much are you spending yearly for the fertilizers, the RO unit, the
: electricity to run it etc?

Dry fertilizers are cheap, shipping is not. Order several years worth
with a few people and your annual cost will probably drop to less than
$20 a year.

RO and CO2 units cost several hundred dollars up front, but annual
maintenance after that is pretty low.

All my costs get dwarfed by the electricity bill. Lights with efficient
reflectors lets you run the fixture for fewer hours and use less tubes.
Still I have more than a dozen fixtures, only a few have optimal reflectors:

4 tube * 54 watt T5 HO tek Light, 8 hours/day
4 tube * 24 watt T5 HO tek Light, 8 hours/day
2 tube * 32 watt T8, 12 hours/day
2 tube * 32 watt T8 overdriven, 12 hours/day
2 tube * 28 watt T5 strip light * 4 strips, 12 hours/day
2 tube * 14 watt T5 strip light * 4 strips, 12 hours/day
1 tube * 32 watt T8 modified strip light with good reflector
1 120 watt PC hydroponic fixture over large cube tank 8 hours/day
1 96 watt PC "quad tube", 12 hours/day, to be replaced.

Add up the kilowatt hours and plug into your local rate :-)

Reel McKoi said the following on 12/28/2007 12:12 PM:

"Randy Webb" wrote in message
...

Now, you have to figure out how to attach a filter to it. The solution
I came up with was to take a rock that I had (I saw some similar in
Petco). It has holes in the rock. I put a filter inside that hole.

What are you using for a filter? A sponge on the end of the intake?

Sorry for the delay in replying. I have been chasing plant tank
equipment the last two days.

The filter I use is actually a filter that is made for a wet/dry filter
in a sal****er tank. It is about as "coarse" as most sponge filters you
see for power heads.

Then,
you sit the power head on top of the filter, so that the intake for
the power head is inside the filter. Any water that goes into the
power head has to go through that filter.

Then, you have to figure out how to secure the power head to the
filter. What I used are the ties that you can buy in Walmart. Cable
ties. They sell them in the Automotive section. They also sell them at
Lowes and Home Depot. They come in packs anywhere from a few to hundreds.

What kind of sponge are you using for a filter? You can just cut a hole
in the sponge and stick the intake in it.

I didn't have a way to mount it in the tank unless I attached it to
something. I simply decided to put my rock to multiple uses. And, the
filter I have actually floats my power head if it is not attached to
anything.

The purpose of the rock was to give it a stable base so that the
filter wouldn't get crushed onto the pumps. Put the pump on the
filter, then Cable Tie it all together. It is that simple. You are
going to have to be innovative or change power heads.

So every week or so you have to clean the sponge filter and replace the
ties?

No. The way they are attached it allows access to the bottom. And, most
of the time, simply turning the pump off allows the plant matter to
simply fall off the bottom to be vacuumed out.

Are you talking about a sponge filter on it's intake screen? Not all
of these powerhead-like water pumps come with screens you can pull a
sponge over.

I can't even find that type of filter here. I hunted one and had to
come up with a solution of my own. None of it would have happened if
my wife hadn't decided that since she could feed dog food to the fish
at the dock that mine would eat it too and dumped a hand full of dog
food into the tank. I was stubborn enough to want to figure out how to
clear it up without having to change all the water.

If you can't find these "filters" I probably wont either. Is it a
sponge? I have no idea what you're talking about.

There is a picture of it on the page I linked to at the end of this post.


Right now, my digital camera battery is in the charger being
recharged. I have to do some work on the tank and will try to take
some pictures and post them online so you can see how I made it.

Yes, I would love to see what they look like. :-)

URL: http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/hikksnotathome/fishtank/index.html

If, for some reason, the pictures don't load, let me know and I can
email them directly to you. The very last picture the power head is not
attached with tie strips because I bought a kit to mount the power head
on the back of the tank with suction cups and found the filters for
power heads. They were simply put on in an X pattern so that they didn't
lock the filter into the rock.

For yours, if it doesn't have an intake tube, and only has an inlet
area, you can use a piece of air conditioner filter for a window unit,
wrap your pump in it, and use rubber bands to hold it on.
--
Randy
Chance Favors The Prepared Mind
comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq/index.html
Javascript Best Practices - http://www.JavascriptToolbox.com/bestpractices/

On Dec 31, 7:40*pm, Randy Webb wrote:
Reel McKoi said the following on 12/28/2007 12:12 PM:



"Randy Webb" wrote in message
...

Now, you have to figure out how to attach a filter to it. The solution
I came up with was to take a rock that I had (I saw some similar in
Petco). It has holes in the rock. I put a filter inside that hole.

What are you using for a filter? *A sponge on the end of the intake?

Sorry for the delay in replying. I have been chasing plant tank
equipment the last two days.

The filter I use is actually a filter that is made for a wet/dry filter
in a sal****er tank. It is about as "coarse" as most sponge filters you
see for power heads.

Then,
you sit the power head on top of the filter, so that the intake for
the power head is inside the filter. Any water that goes into the
power head has to go through that filter.

Then, you have to figure out how to secure the power head to the
filter. What I used are the ties that you can buy in Walmart. Cable
ties. They sell them in the Automotive section. They also sell them at
Lowes and Home Depot. They come in packs anywhere from a few to hundreds.

What kind of sponge are you using for a filter? You can just cut a hole
in the sponge and stick the intake in it.

I didn't have a way to mount it in the tank unless I attached it to
something. I simply decided to put my rock to multiple uses. And, the
filter I have actually floats my power head if it is not attached to
anything.

The purpose of the rock was to give it a stable base so that the
filter wouldn't get crushed onto the pumps. Put the pump on the
filter, then Cable Tie it all together. It is that simple. You are
going to have to be innovative or change power heads.

So every week or so you have to clean the sponge filter and replace the
ties?

No. The way they are attached it allows access to the bottom. And, most
of the time, simply turning the pump off allows the plant matter to
simply fall off the bottom to be vacuumed out.

Are you talking about a sponge filter on it's intake screen? *Not all
of these powerhead-like water pumps come with screens you can pull a
sponge over.

I can't even find that type of filter here. I hunted one and had to
come up with a solution of my own. None of it would have happened if
my wife hadn't decided that since she could feed dog food to the fish
at the dock that mine would eat it too and dumped a hand full of dog
food into the tank. I was stubborn enough to want to figure out how to
clear it up without having to change all the water.

If you can't find these "filters" I probably wont either. Is it a
sponge? *I have no idea what you're talking about.

There is a picture of it on the page I linked to at the end of this post.



Right now, my digital camera battery is in the charger being
recharged. I have to do some work on the tank and will try to take
some pictures and post them online so you can see how I made it.

Yes, I would love to see what they look like. *:-)

URL:http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/hikksnotathome/fishtank/index.html

If, for some reason, the pictures don't load, let me know and I can
email them directly to you. The very last picture the power head is not
attached with tie strips because I bought a kit to mount the power head
on the back of the tank with suction cups and found the filters for
power heads. They were simply put on in an X pattern so that they didn't
lock the filter into the rock.

For yours, if it doesn't have an intake tube, and only has an inlet
area, you can use a piece of air conditioner filter for a window unit,
wrap your pump in it, and use rubber bands to hold it on.
--
Randy
Chance Favors The Prepared Mind
comp.lang.javascript FAQ -http://jibbering.com/faq/index.html
Javascript Best Practices -http://www.JavascriptToolbox.com/bestpractices/

I am not knocking youir filter, but to be h onest I sure wuld not
want all that in the tank. IMHO its just as easy to stick a strainer
piece into the powerheads inlet tube and if needed then slip on a
foam / sponge filter sleeve that tyupically comes with a Pondmaster or
Danner Mag 3 or 5 sized piump or use the foam sponge filters that are
made for the Maxi Jet like of pumps.............The "rock" appears to
be a portion of concrete that was evidenlty poured around a 4 x 4 post
or so and it appears to be almost as big around as the bottom of that
bucket............just way too much "material" for a little 4 x 4
area of foam to be exposed and do the work. A typical foam filter
sleeve has approx the same square inches of fitler surface and needs
no "rock"