Is 29g too small for reef and fish?

Hi this is my first post and I must say that I am new to fish-keeping. I read
books and crawl the web before I made the commitment to go with a marine
tank. After this research I finally bought the biggest setup I could afford.
I know it's not much, but I hope to upgrade in a year if all goes well. Here
is what I have...
29-gallon Eclipse Show Glass aquarium, Eclipse 3 Hood, submersible aquarium
heater, digital thermometer (link to the tank setup below)
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...=6&pCatId=9018
Even though this is small, the LFS (learned the acronym for this group) said
that I could put together a very nice setup. I got 2 bags of live sand and
10lbs ornamental rock and 30lbs of live rock. I dropped 2 snails and 10
hermit crabs in to work the rock while the tank cycled. I opted to not put
any fish in to cycle and let the live rock drive the show. Well, just 10
days later salility held at 1.023, ph at 8.2, ammonia was at 0, nitrites
were under .2 (test kit has that as lowest color), and nitrates were 10. I
added 2 perculas and waited for my inexperience to catch up with me and for
ammonia and nitrites to go to 900,000ppm. 3 days later the stats are the
same with the exception of my nitrates which are now at 15. I went back to
the LFS and picked up an orange star and a sand sifting star and 2 turbo
snails. Everything seems to be on track, just taking so much less time that
i thought.
My goal (which was blessed by the LFS) is as follows...
2 percula clowns (which are in there and doing great)
some kind of anemone to love them
regal tang
reef safe wrasse
shrimp
flame scallop
corals
several more inverts.
Now the question part.
After continued reading in the last few weeks as well as posts from this
group I wonder if my goals are too lofty for the cheaper equipment that I
was forced to start off with. Does this seem like too many fish for a reef
tank of this size? is the eclipse floresent light powerfull enought for
this? Do I need a protein skimmer? It is suggested but not required and my
LFS says no. He is suggesting that I put phoshorus strips over the
mechanical filter. Is this OK? Do I need to punt and do a FOWLR (another
acronym I learned for you all)? Even If I do that, I wouldn't be able to put
that many more fish in such a small tank. I want to enjoy this new hobby and
upgrade to a 200g as soon as the wallet allows. I desire grandure but want
to be prudent and not over do it. Please share some experiences. I'll give
up the 2 stars if I have to abandon the reef tank plan.

Doug Wright wrote:



Hi this is my first post and I must say that I am new to fish-keeping.
I read books and crawl the web before I made the commitment to go with
a marine tank. After this research I finally bought the biggest setup
I could afford. I know it's not much, but I hope to upgrade in a year
if all goes well. Here is what I have...
29-gallon Eclipse Show Glass aquarium, Eclipse 3 Hood, submersible
aquarium heater, digital thermometer (link to the tank setup below)
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...y.cfm?siteid=6
&pCatId=
9018 Even though this is small, the LFS (learned the acronym for this
group) said that I could put together a very nice setup. I got 2 bags
of live sand and 10lbs ornamental rock and 30lbs of live rock. I
dropped 2 snails and 10 hermit crabs in to work the rock while the
tank cycled. I opted to not put any fish in to cycle and let the live
rock drive the show. Well, just 10 days later salility held at 1.023,
ph at 8.2, ammonia was at 0, nitrites were under .2 (test kit has that
as lowest color), and nitrates were 10. I added 2 perculas and waited
for my inexperience to catch up with me and for ammonia and nitrites
to go to 900,000ppm. 3 days later the stats are the same with the
exception of my nitrates which are now at 15. I went back to the LFS
and picked up an orange star and a sand sifting star and 2 turbo
snails. Everything seems to be on track, just taking so much less time
that i thought.
My goal (which was blessed by the LFS) is as follows...
2 percula clowns (which are in there and doing great)
some kind of anemone to love them
regal tang
reef safe wrasse
shrimp
flame scallop
corals
several more inverts.
Now the question part.
After continued reading in the last few weeks as well as posts from
this group I wonder if my goals are too lofty for the cheaper
equipment that I was forced to start off with. Does this seem like too
many fish for a reef tank of this size? is the eclipse floresent light
powerfull enought for this? Do I need a protein skimmer? It is
suggested but not required and my LFS says no. He is suggesting that I
put phoshorus strips over the mechanical filter. Is this OK? Do I need
to punt and do a FOWLR (another acronym I learned for you all)? Even
If I do that, I wouldn't be able to put that many more fish in such a
small tank. I want to enjoy this new hobby and upgrade to a 200g as
soon as the wallet allows. I desire grandure but want to be prudent
and not over do it. Please share some experiences. I'll give up the 2
stars if I have to abandon the reef tank plan.




That tank is way too small for a tang. I have a 29 gallon with 40 lbs
live rock and a seaclone protein skimmer and 2 power heads. I have 4
large red stripe hermits, 8 turbo snails, a yellow-tailed blue damsel,
and a false lemon peel angel. I have a wooden canopy with a double
fixture 65 watt power compact light one 1000K and one actinic. I have a
few red mushroom corals as well. The live rock was given to me
already cured. However for the first month I only had the damsel,
hermits and turbo snails then added the angel. I have no problems so
far, and plan to add a royal gramma in a week or two.
The only issue I think you might have is lighting for the inverts.

--
Remember, wherever you go, there you are.

sounds like you need a low range nitrate tester, mine testes(lol) from
10-100 in high range, and 1-10 in low range, if you get a 10 in the high
range, you NEED to test in lower range to see actual.
now are you sure that is 15 and not 150ppm? im assuming your tester reads
between 10 and 20? if so, thats kinda high, but not for a new tank.
wolfhedd

"Doug Wright" wrote in message
...


Hi this is my first post and I must say that I am new to fish-keeping. I
read
books and crawl the web before I made the commitment to go with a marine
tank. After this research I finally bought the biggest setup I could
afford.
I know it's not much, but I hope to upgrade in a year if all goes well.
Here
is what I have...
29-gallon Eclipse Show Glass aquarium, Eclipse 3 Hood, submersible
aquarium
heater, digital thermometer (link to the tank setup below)

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...=6&pCatId=9018
Even though this is small, the LFS (learned the acronym for this group)
said
that I could put together a very nice setup. I got 2 bags of live sand and
10lbs ornamental rock and 30lbs of live rock. I dropped 2 snails and 10
hermit crabs in to work the rock while the tank cycled. I opted to not put
any fish in to cycle and let the live rock drive the show. Well, just 10
days later salility held at 1.023, ph at 8.2, ammonia was at 0, nitrites
were under .2 (test kit has that as lowest color), and nitrates were 10. I
added 2 perculas and waited for my inexperience to catch up with me and
for
ammonia and nitrites to go to 900,000ppm. 3 days later the stats are the
same with the exception of my nitrates which are now at 15. I went back to
the LFS and picked up an orange star and a sand sifting star and 2 turbo
snails. Everything seems to be on track, just taking so much less time
that
i thought.
My goal (which was blessed by the LFS) is as follows...
2 percula clowns (which are in there and doing great)
some kind of anemone to love them
regal tang
reef safe wrasse
shrimp
flame scallop
corals
several more inverts.
Now the question part.
After continued reading in the last few weeks as well as posts from this
group I wonder if my goals are too lofty for the cheaper equipment that I
was forced to start off with. Does this seem like too many fish for a reef
tank of this size? is the eclipse floresent light powerfull enought for
this? Do I need a protein skimmer? It is suggested but not required and my
LFS says no. He is suggesting that I put phoshorus strips over the
mechanical filter. Is this OK? Do I need to punt and do a FOWLR (another
acronym I learned for you all)? Even If I do that, I wouldn't be able to
put
that many more fish in such a small tank. I want to enjoy this new hobby
and
upgrade to a 200g as soon as the wallet allows. I desire grandure but want
to be prudent and not over do it. Please share some experiences. I'll give
up the 2 stars if I have to abandon the reef tank plan.

NO, not to small for reef, but i hope you get experience about good water
conditions quick, and would not add any fish that needed feeding yet or if
at all(ok i guess 2 perculas would set it jsut right). for now i would add
only stuff like scooter blenny and whatever you can get that doesnt eat much
brine shrimp and stuff. try just a blenny, and hermit. in my tank, i added
no snails, when i cycled they appeared, by the hundreds and hundreds, now
its down to about 500-1000 pre-eraserhead sized snails that are invisible
for the most part because of their camouflage.


sounds like you need a low range nitrate tester, mine testes(lol) from
10-100 in high range, and 1-10 in low range, if you get a 10 in the high
range, you NEED to test in lower range to see actual.
now are you sure that is 15 and not 150ppm? im assuming your tester reads
between 10 and 20? if so, thats kinda high, but not for a new tank.
wolfhedd

"Doug Wright" wrote in message
...


Hi this is my first post and I must say that I am new to fish-keeping. I
read
books and crawl the web before I made the commitment to go with a marine
tank. After this research I finally bought the biggest setup I could
afford.
I know it's not much, but I hope to upgrade in a year if all goes well.
Here
is what I have...
29-gallon Eclipse Show Glass aquarium, Eclipse 3 Hood, submersible
aquarium
heater, digital thermometer (link to the tank setup below)

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...=6&pCatId=9018
Even though this is small, the LFS (learned the acronym for this group)
said
that I could put together a very nice setup. I got 2 bags of live sand and
10lbs ornamental rock and 30lbs of live rock. I dropped 2 snails and 10
hermit crabs in to work the rock while the tank cycled. I opted to not put
any fish in to cycle and let the live rock drive the show. Well, just 10
days later salility held at 1.023, ph at 8.2, ammonia was at 0, nitrites
were under .2 (test kit has that as lowest color), and nitrates were 10. I
added 2 perculas and waited for my inexperience to catch up with me and
for
ammonia and nitrites to go to 900,000ppm. 3 days later the stats are the
same with the exception of my nitrates which are now at 15. I went back to
the LFS and picked up an orange star and a sand sifting star and 2 turbo
snails. Everything seems to be on track, just taking so much less time
that
i thought.
My goal (which was blessed by the LFS) is as follows...
2 percula clowns (which are in there and doing great)
some kind of anemone to love them
regal tang
reef safe wrasse
shrimp
flame scallop
corals
several more inverts.
Now the question part.
After continued reading in the last few weeks as well as posts from this
group I wonder if my goals are too lofty for the cheaper equipment that I
was forced to start off with. Does this seem like too many fish for a reef
tank of this size? is the eclipse floresent light powerfull enought for
this? Do I need a protein skimmer? It is suggested but not required and my
LFS says no. He is suggesting that I put phoshorus strips over the
mechanical filter. Is this OK? Do I need to punt and do a FOWLR (another
acronym I learned for you all)? Even If I do that, I wouldn't be able to
put
that many more fish in such a small tank. I want to enjoy this new hobby
and
upgrade to a 200g as soon as the wallet allows. I desire grandure but want
to be prudent and not over do it. Please share some experiences. I'll give
up the 2 stars if I have to abandon the reef tank plan.

In article et,
says...
NO, not to small for reef, but i hope you get experience about good water
conditions quick, and would not add any fish that needed feeding yet or if
at all(ok i guess 2 perculas would set it jsut right). for now i would add
only stuff like scooter blenny and whatever you can get that doesnt eat much
brine shrimp and stuff. try just a blenny, and hermit. in my tank, i added
no snails, when i cycled they appeared, by the hundreds and hundreds, now
its down to about 500-1000 pre-eraserhead sized snails that are invisible
for the most part because of their camouflage.


sounds like you need a low range nitrate tester, mine testes(lol) from
10-100 in high range, and 1-10 in low range, if you get a 10 in the high
range, you NEED to test in lower range to see actual.
now are you sure that is 15 and not 150ppm? im assuming your tester reads
between 10 and 20? if so, thats kinda high, but not for a new tank.
wolfhedd

"Doug Wright" wrote in message
...


Hi this is my first post and I must say that I am new to fish-keeping. I
read
books and crawl the web before I made the commitment to go with a marine
tank. After this research I finally bought the biggest setup I could
afford.
I know it's not much, but I hope to upgrade in a year if all goes well.
Here
is what I have...
29-gallon Eclipse Show Glass aquarium, Eclipse 3 Hood, submersible
aquarium
heater, digital thermometer (link to the tank setup below)

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...=6&pCatId=9018
Even though this is small, the LFS (learned the acronym for this group)
said
that I could put together a very nice setup. I got 2 bags of live sand and
10lbs ornamental rock and 30lbs of live rock. I dropped 2 snails and 10
hermit crabs in to work the rock while the tank cycled. I opted to not put
any fish in to cycle and let the live rock drive the show. Well, just 10
days later salility held at 1.023, ph at 8.2, ammonia was at 0, nitrites
were under .2 (test kit has that as lowest color), and nitrates were 10. I
added 2 perculas and waited for my inexperience to catch up with me and
for
ammonia and nitrites to go to 900,000ppm. 3 days later the stats are the
same with the exception of my nitrates which are now at 15. I went back to
the LFS and picked up an orange star and a sand sifting star and 2 turbo
snails. Everything seems to be on track, just taking so much less time
that
i thought.
Yep, a 29gal reef is possible. Way too small for a tang, but there are
plenty of reef safe small fish you could add (though with two clowns,
you've probably only got room for 1 more) I've got a 29 w/ about 40lbs
of live rock, HOB refugium with macro algae, CPR bakpak skimmer, 6 line
wrasse (would probably work well in your tank), flame hawk, algae
blenny, misc. snails & crabs, serpent star, asst. soft corals and
130watts of 50/50 PC light. Circulation is driven by a Mag3 running in
a closed loop with a SCWD (though I think this is underpowered). If I
had it to do over, I'd probably set up in a place that would let me put
a proper sized sump/refugium beneath the tank and perhaps use a 175watt
MH pendant.
The bigest pain I've found in working with a reef this small is that you
have to be religious about monitoring water chemistry and making
adjustments promptly. That and algae takes hold SO quickly....

willis stanley wrote:

In article et,
says...
NO, not to small for reef, but i hope you get experience about good
water conditions quick, and would not add any fish that needed
feeding yet or if at all(ok i guess 2 perculas would set it jsut
right). for now i would add only stuff like scooter blenny and
whatever you can get that doesnt eat much brine shrimp and stuff.
try just a blenny, and hermit. in my tank, i added no snails, when i
cycled they appeared, by the hundreds and hundreds, now its down to
about 500-1000 pre-eraserhead sized snails that are invisible for the
most part because of their camouflage.


sounds like you need a low range nitrate tester, mine testes(lol)
from 10-100 in high range, and 1-10 in low range, if you get a 10 in
the high range, you NEED to test in lower range to see actual.
now are you sure that is 15 and not 150ppm? im assuming your tester
reads between 10 and 20? if so, thats kinda high, but not for a new
tank. wolfhedd

"Doug Wright" wrote in message
...


Hi this is my first post and I must say that I am new to
fish-keeping. I
read
books and crawl the web before I made the commitment to go with a
marine tank. After this research I finally bought the biggest setup
I could
afford.
I know it's not much, but I hope to upgrade in a year if all goes
well.
Here
is what I have...
29-gallon Eclipse Show Glass aquarium, Eclipse 3 Hood, submersible
aquarium
heater, digital thermometer (link to the tank setup below)

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...y.cfm?siteid=6
&pCatId
=9018
Even though this is small, the LFS (learned the acronym for this
group)
said
that I could put together a very nice setup. I got 2 bags of live
sand and 10lbs ornamental rock and 30lbs of live rock. I dropped 2
snails and 10 hermit crabs in to work the rock while the tank
cycled. I opted to not put any fish in to cycle and let the live
rock drive the show. Well, just 10 days later salility held at
1.023, ph at 8.2, ammonia was at 0, nitrites were under .2 (test
kit has that as lowest color), and nitrates were 10. I added 2
perculas and waited for my inexperience to catch up with me and
for
ammonia and nitrites to go to 900,000ppm. 3 days later the stats
are the same with the exception of my nitrates which are now at 15.
I went back to the LFS and picked up an orange star and a sand
sifting star and 2 turbo snails. Everything seems to be on track,
just taking so much less time
that
i thought.
Yep, a 29gal reef is possible. Way too small for a tang, but there
are plenty of reef safe small fish you could add (though with two
clowns, you've probably only got room for 1 more) I've got a 29 w/
about 40lbs of live rock, HOB refugium with macro algae, CPR bakpak
skimmer, 6 line wrasse (would probably work well in your tank), flame
hawk, algae blenny, misc. snails & crabs, serpent star, asst. soft
corals and 130watts of 50/50 PC light. Circulation is driven by a
Mag3 running in a closed loop with a SCWD (though I think this is
underpowered). If I had it to do over, I'd probably set up in a place
that would let me put a proper sized sump/refugium beneath the tank
and perhaps use a 175watt MH pendant.
The bigest pain I've found in working with a reef this small is that
you have to be religious about monitoring water chemistry and making
adjustments promptly. That and algae takes hold SO quickly....


I have almost the same setup in my 29 gallon, but I am only using the
live rock and a seaclone (modified to work better) protein skimmer, but
I don't have corals. I have a false lemon peel angel, 4 red stripe
hermits, a yellow-tailed blue damsel, and 2 neon gobies. and 7 turbo
snails. I plan to eventually add a royal gramma, and a midas blenny.

--
Remember, wherever you go, there you are.

that is an awful lot of fish in a 29 gallon setup.

kc

In article , Dragon Slayer wrote:
that is an awful lot of fish in a 29 gallon setup.

Agreed. I think that tank is full already.

You probably could double the number of snails and hermits though.
1 hermit per gallon, 1 snail per 2 gallon is not unheard of.

NanoReef wrote:

In article , Dragon Slayer wrote:
that is an awful lot of fish in a 29 gallon setup.

Agreed. I think that tank is full already.

You probably could double the number of snails and hermits though.
1 hermit per gallon, 1 snail per 2 gallon is not unheard of.


The hermits are very large, about the size of a quarter. If I can catch
the damsel he will go into another tank I have...........but he's mighty
quick.

--
Remember, wherever you go, there you are.

Here's what I've done in my 29 gallons:
http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/...Stuff/SW5.html

I kinda went overboard with snails and crabs. Now I worry about their
not getting enough algae to eat. The glass is completely clean, which I
was not hoping for. I only have four fish and that is one more than I
intended. My will power failed when I saw a mandarin.

Ruth Kazez

Adira wrote:

NanoReef wrote:


In article , Dragon Slayer wrote:

that is an awful lot of fish in a 29 gallon setup.

Agreed. I think that tank is full already.

You probably could double the number of snails and hermits though.
1 hermit per gallon, 1 snail per 2 gallon is not unheard of.



The hermits are very large, about the size of a quarter. If I can catch
the damsel he will go into another tank I have...........but he's mighty
quick.