Porcelain Tiles in a tank?

"Charles Spitzer" charlie.spitzer@nospam. .com wrote in message
news:c51m8e$6bc$1@transfer. .com...

"Harry Muscle" wrote in message
...
"Charles Spitzer" charlie.spitzer@nospam. .com wrote in message
news:c51lec$677$1@transfer. .com...

"james" wrote in message
news:qlYcc.410$es.107@fed1read02...
In article c51hrb$5rf$1@transfer. .com,
Charles Spitzer charlie.spitzer@nospam. .com wrote:

neither the glaze nor the tile may be safe. there's a lot of glazes
that
aren't food safe (contain lead, cadmium, etc) and could leach
metals
from
either a basic or acid solution in contact with it. you'd have to
find
out
what is in them from the manufacturer, and they probably don't know
since
tiles typically don't have a msds.

Anybody selling a kitchen tile laced with toxic heavy metals is just
asking for litigation...

not really. also, OP didn't state that they were kitchen tiles. could
be
floor, bathroom, , etc. incidental contact with lead bearing
glazes
for
kitchen tiles wouldn't be ither. the OP is talking about leaving
them
inside the tank, which is full contact forever.

they allow lead crystal to be used for decanters as long as you don't
store
wine in them. long term contact with lead crystal leaches out the lead
into
the wine. it's all a matter of how long the contact is.



But what if the tile doesn't have a glaze on it? What if it's solid
porcelain, with the color pattern embedded throughout the whole tile?

Thanks,
Harry


then it depends upon what is in the clay, which comes from the ground and
has LOTS of different metals in it, or could even be a blend of different
clays from different regions of the world. for sure, the tile manufacturer
won't know that, or at least, they won't tell. i've never seen an msds on
tile.



So in other words, unless I stick it in the tank and wait for my fish to
die, there is no way for me to find out if it's going to cause any problems.
Bummer. Maybe I should stick with using slate tiles.

Thanks for the info,
Harry

P.S. Are porcelain sinks, toilets, etc. glazed? Or are they smooth and
water repellent naturally?

"Harry Muscle" wrote in message
...

So in other words, unless I stick it in the tank and wait for my fish to
die, there is no way for me to find out if it's going to cause any
problems.
Bummer. Maybe I should stick with using slate tiles.

Thanks for the info,
Harry

P.S. Are porcelain sinks, toilets, etc. glazed? Or are they smooth and
water repellent naturally?



You may be talking two different products here. A porcelain sink (kit.) or
tub etc., is cast iron or metal with a glaze baked on. Pedestal Lavatories
(bath) or toilets are usually vitreous china with a glaze. Tile OTOH can be
made from just about anything these days - concrete impregnated fiber to
recycled glass. Most manufacturers will tell you what they use but
contacting them can be interesting.

"Harry Muscle" wrote in message
...
"Charles Spitzer" charlie.spitzer@nospam. .com wrote in message
news:c51m8e$6bc$1@transfer. .com...

"Harry Muscle" wrote in message
...
"Charles Spitzer" charlie.spitzer@nospam. .com wrote in message
news:c51lec$677$1@transfer. .com...

"james" wrote in message
news:qlYcc.410$es.107@fed1read02...
In article c51hrb$5rf$1@transfer. .com,
Charles Spitzer charlie.spitzer@nospam. .com wrote:

neither the glaze nor the tile may be safe. there's a lot of
glazes
that
aren't food safe (contain lead, cadmium, etc) and could leach
metals
from
either a basic or acid solution in contact with it. you'd have to
find
out
what is in them from the manufacturer, and they probably don't
know
since
tiles typically don't have a msds.

Anybody selling a kitchen tile laced with toxic heavy metals is
just
asking for litigation...

not really. also, OP didn't state that they were kitchen tiles.
could
be
floor, bathroom, , etc. incidental contact with lead bearing
glazes
for
kitchen tiles wouldn't be ither. the OP is talking about
leaving
them
inside the tank, which is full contact forever.

they allow lead crystal to be used for decanters as long as you
don't
store
wine in them. long term contact with lead crystal leaches out the
lead
into
the wine. it's all a matter of how long the contact is.



But what if the tile doesn't have a glaze on it? What if it's solid
porcelain, with the color pattern embedded throughout the whole tile?

Thanks,
Harry


then it depends upon what is in the clay, which comes from the ground
and
has LOTS of different metals in it, or could even be a blend of
different
clays from different regions of the world. for sure, the tile
manufacturer
won't know that, or at least, they won't tell. i've never seen an msds
on
tile.



So in other words, unless I stick it in the tank and wait for my fish to
die, there is no way for me to find out if it's going to cause any
problems.

chances are it's safe. however, how much of a betting person are you? you
might try a piece of tile in a test tank with 1 fish and some inverts for 6
months. if there's no affect, it's probably safe. also water changes would
decrease the amount of toxins, if any.

Bummer. Maybe I should stick with using slate tiles.

isn't slate shale? a lot of shale comes from oil bearing rocks.

Thanks for the info,
Harry

P.S. Are porcelain sinks, toilets, etc. glazed? Or are they smooth and
water repellent naturally?

yes. if you turn your toilet upside down, you'd see unglazed places. maybe
the inside of the tank lid too. the item is made in a mold, fired and
cooled, the glaze is sprayed on, then fired again at a higher temp.

"Wm Hopkins" wrote in message
news

"Harry Muscle" wrote in message
...

So in other words, unless I stick it in the tank and wait for my fish to
die, there is no way for me to find out if it's going to cause any
problems.
Bummer. Maybe I should stick with using slate tiles.

Thanks for the info,
Harry

P.S. Are porcelain sinks, toilets, etc. glazed? Or are they smooth and
water repellent naturally?



You may be talking two different products here. A porcelain sink (kit.) or
tub etc., is cast iron or metal with a glaze baked on. Pedestal Lavatories
(bath) or toilets are usually vitreous china with a glaze. Tile OTOH can
be
made from just about anything these days - concrete impregnated fiber to
recycled glass. Most manufacturers will tell you what they use but
contacting them can be interesting.


tubs and some kitchen sinks are usually porcelain on metal. toilets and
bathroom sinks are usually porcelain on some clay body that's been fired to
porcelain temps. the clay body could be a porcelain or not. if you go into a
pottery supply place, they might have 25 different clay bodies in 25 lb
blocks, some of which are classified as a porcelain.

"Harry Muscle" wrote in message
...
Anybody know if porcelain tiles (like the ones that go on the floor) are
safe in an aquarium. Sinks and such are made of porcelain, so the
porcelain
itself is fine, but the tiles are colored porcelain. Anyone know what
kind
of chemicals they use to color porcelain, and if this stuff would be
pretty
well encased inside the porcelain so none of it leaches out? I'm hoping
to
use these tiles for a background.

Thanks,
Harry



Totally inexperienced suggestion here, but could you secure the tiles
together with a piece of backing like fabric or thin wood and hang that on
the back of the tank on the outside? Maybe that doesn't give the desired
effect.

Just a thought.

"Harry Muscle" wrote in message
...
Anybody know if porcelain tiles (like the ones that go on the floor)
are
safe in an aquarium. Sinks and such are made of porcelain, so the
porcelain
itself is fine, but the tiles are colored porcelain. Anyone know what
kind
of chemicals they use to color porcelain, and if this stuff would be
pretty
well encased inside the porcelain so none of it leaches out? I'm
hoping to
use these tiles for a background.

Thanks,
Harry

How about brushing a thin layer of a marine epoxy over them, to seal
whatever is or isn't there to leech.

Case closed ? ;~)
NetMax

Harry Muscle wrote:

Anybody know if porcelain tiles (like the ones that go on the floor) are
safe in an aquarium. Sinks and such are made of porcelain, so the porcelain
itself is fine, but the tiles are colored porcelain. Anyone know what kind
of chemicals they use to color porcelain, and if this stuff would be pretty
well encased inside the porcelain so none of it leaches out? I'm hoping to
use these tiles for a background.

Check with some of the major pool manufacturers. Pools have been lined
using tiles for decades. Hell, if it's good enough for the YMCA pool...

"NetMax" wrote in message
. ..

"Harry Muscle" wrote in message
...
Anybody know if porcelain tiles (like the ones that go on the floor)
are
safe in an aquarium. Sinks and such are made of porcelain, so the
porcelain
itself is fine, but the tiles are colored porcelain. Anyone know what
kind
of chemicals they use to color porcelain, and if this stuff would be
pretty
well encased inside the porcelain so none of it leaches out? I'm
hoping to
use these tiles for a background.

Thanks,
Harry

How about brushing a thin layer of a marine epoxy over them, to seal
whatever is or isn't there to leech.

Case closed ? ;~)
NetMax



I actually thought of that idea last night. I'm just debating whether
that's going to be too much work, and if I should just go for slate tiles
instead.

Thanks,
Harry

"Polarhound" wrote in message
...
Harry Muscle wrote:

Anybody know if porcelain tiles (like the ones that go on the floor) are
safe in an aquarium. Sinks and such are made of porcelain, so the
porcelain
itself is fine, but the tiles are colored porcelain. Anyone know what
kind
of chemicals they use to color porcelain, and if this stuff would be
pretty
well encased inside the porcelain so none of it leaches out? I'm hoping
to
use these tiles for a background.

Check with some of the major pool manufacturers. Pools have been lined
using tiles for decades. Hell, if it's good enough for the YMCA pool...

i don't think they keep fish/inverts in the pool (although that would be
cool), nor do i want to advocate that one start drinking the pool water
there.... ewww.

the epoxy idea actually is pretty reasonable if you ensured that you had
really good coverage on all 6 sides. west marine has some good products, and
they have a sampler set that is pretty cheap.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

"Charles Spitzer" charlie.spitzer@nospam. .com wrote in message
news:c53q82$cp6$1@transfer. .com...

"Polarhound" wrote in message
...
Harry Muscle wrote:

Anybody know if porcelain tiles (like the ones that go on the floor)
are
safe in an aquarium. Sinks and such are made of porcelain, so the
porcelain
itself is fine, but the tiles are colored porcelain. Anyone know what
kind
of chemicals they use to color porcelain, and if this stuff would be
pretty
well encased inside the porcelain so none of it leaches out? I'm
hoping
to
use these tiles for a background.

Check with some of the major manufacturers. s have been lined
using tiles for decades. Hell, if it's good enough for the YMCA ...

i don't think they keep fish/inverts in the (although that would be
cool), nor do i want to advocate that one start drinking the water
there.... ewww.

the epoxy idea actually is pretty reasonable if you ensured that you had
really good coverage on all 6 sides. west marine has some good products,
and
they have a sampler set that is pretty cheap.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az



OK, I finally got a hold of someone at the company who makes this tile, and
they admitted that there is actually a glaze on the tile (even though it
looks to me like there isn't), and it does in fact contain lead. They
though it would pose no danger, mentioning that it could even come in
contact with food, etc. and be safe. However, just to be safe, I think I'm
either gonna go the epoxy route, or choose slate tiles instead.

Thanks for everyone's input, greatly appreciated,
Harry