Using a linear air pump in a wet dry sump system for return...

This project keeps getting bigger and bigger! Now my Dad and I are
thinking about walling and insulating about 8' of the garage.. This
way I can move the majority of my tanks out there (that brings it to
16).. This will make water changes alot easier, and I can eliminate
alot of the extra air pumps that are running around the house, and
free up some living space...

In this case we will only wall in the portion of the garage that falls
upder the room upstairs, so we know the ceiling will be insulated. My
biggest concern w/ regards to insulation would be the floor... Would
rubber matting help?

This is in the shoot the **** stage, so please shoot it to **** if it
looks unfeasible, cuz I only like seeing frozen fish at the grocery
store...

hang in there Jim, recovery is a painful process, but we're all here
for you if you need us...



On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:46:40 -0400, "Jim Brown"
wrote:


Mid posted......


I had a feeling it would be... On the other hand, I would have been
running the smaller piston pump + a water pump of atleast 900GPH to
1000gph (the top tanks are pretty high so I have to compensate for the
head)... I'm hoping this will be cheaper then that combination, but I
might be mistaken since I've no idea how much power the water pump
would require... This pump is rated at around 54 Watts I think...

I am a fan of the MagDrive pumps. They push the water well and are low
watt. But at 54 watts, your pump is not too bad.


There may be a lot of splash at the return, so consider an elbow or 'U'
fitting to minimize.

I plan to have an elbow at the top leading to a horizontal pipe w/
ball valves or check valves over each of the three top tanks to
facilitate return..

To get full benefit of the air volumes, you might want to consider larger
tubing. Even then, I would consider rigid piping to better handle the
pressure.

The output on the pump is pretty wide... (i think its 1/4" or more but
i'm too lazy to go to the garage to check)... The guy I bought it from
have an identical one w/ the appropriate sized flex tube leading
directly to a wall mounted pvc conduit pipe approx. 6 to 7' long... He
had it drilled at regular intervals w/ air valves inserted. From this
point he had regular airlines from the LFS leading to his various
UGF's and sponge filters. ( I think he had like 15-18 things running
and he still had to bleed it off)... Even he admitted that he did a
fairly sloppy job w/ a lot of the connections, but despite enough
leaks to qualify as a Ford, it was pushing his 180 GAL and atleast 5
other tanks quite well... Should I use wider airlines all the way in,
or can I use the regular stuff after the pvc?


You might also want a side pipe higher than the tank's surface to
eliminate any overflow problems if a power outage or pipe separation
occurs.

I can't picture that... Could you elaborate please :-)

I was thinking that instead of drilling the airline attachment to the uplift
tube, make the riser a 'U' shape. Attach the air to a nipple on the cap,
and the capped air pipe will provide some buffer if the air hose pops off.
Just a quick thought on my part. As I said, think it out and consider
problems before they happen.


What you are doing is just a very large version of the old HOT air driven
filters that were fairly popular a number of years ago.

I'll look them up... I'm, a fairly recent addict.... er.... I meant
HOBBYIST!!!!

Just think it out, maximize the air supply tubing, and consider damage
control.

I'm puttin it all in the garage!!! (Next project is to insulate around
the whole system!

In the garage?? You will need a lot of insulation to run it any length into
the house. It's not that warm in Mississauga.


Thanx Jim! As always, you are a veritable font of wisdom! How are you
faring these days? Have you got your systems up to snuff again?
Cheers!

Thanks. Still struggling to get back at it. Still doing guppy shows, and
have a speaking engagement in Kitchener in September. Would be nice if they
could get my medications sorted out. Not easy coming back.

Jim

"The Madd Hatter" wrote in message
...
This project keeps getting bigger and bigger! Now my Dad and I are
thinking about walling and insulating about 8' of the garage.. This
way I can move the majority of my tanks out there (that brings it to
16).. This will make water changes alot easier, and I can eliminate
alot of the extra air pumps that are running around the house, and
free up some living space...

In this case we will only wall in the portion of the garage that falls
upder the room upstairs, so we know the ceiling will be insulated. My
biggest concern w/ regards to insulation would be the floor... Would
rubber matting help?

This is in the shoot the **** stage, so please shoot it to **** if it
looks unfeasible, cuz I only like seeing frozen fish at the grocery
store...

hang in there Jim, recovery is a painful process, but we're all here
for you if you need us...



On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:46:40 -0400, "Jim Brown"
wrote:


Mid posted......


I had a feeling it would be... On the other hand, I would have been
running the smaller piston pump + a water pump of atleast 900GPH to
1000gph (the top tanks are pretty high so I have to compensate for
the
head)... I'm hoping this will be cheaper then that combination, but
I
might be mistaken since I've no idea how much power the water pump
would require... This pump is rated at around 54 Watts I think...

I am a fan of the MagDrive pumps. They push the water well and are
low
watt. But at 54 watts, your pump is not too bad.


There may be a lot of splash at the return, so consider an elbow
or 'U'
fitting to minimize.

I plan to have an elbow at the top leading to a horizontal pipe w/
ball valves or check valves over each of the three top tanks to
facilitate return..

To get full benefit of the air volumes, you might want to consider
larger
tubing. Even then, I would consider rigid piping to better handle
the
pressure.

The output on the pump is pretty wide... (i think its 1/4" or more
but
i'm too lazy to go to the garage to check)... The guy I bought it
from
have an identical one w/ the appropriate sized flex tube leading
directly to a wall mounted pvc conduit pipe approx. 6 to 7' long...
He
had it drilled at regular intervals w/ air valves inserted. From
this
point he had regular airlines from the LFS leading to his various
UGF's and sponge filters. ( I think he had like 15-18 things
running
and he still had to bleed it off)... Even he admitted that he did a
fairly sloppy job w/ a lot of the connections, but despite enough
leaks to qualify as a Ford, it was pushing his 180 GAL and atleast
5
other tanks quite well... Should I use wider airlines all the way
in,
or can I use the regular stuff after the pvc?


You might also want a side pipe higher than the tank's surface to
eliminate any overflow problems if a power outage or pipe
separation
occurs.

I can't picture that... Could you elaborate please :-)

I was thinking that instead of drilling the airline attachment to the
uplift
tube, make the riser a 'U' shape. Attach the air to a nipple on the
cap,
and the capped air pipe will provide some buffer if the air hose pops
off.
Just a quick thought on my part. As I said, think it out and
consider
problems before they happen.


What you are doing is just a very large version of the old HOT air
driven
filters that were fairly popular a number of years ago.

I'll look them up... I'm, a fairly recent addict.... er.... I meant
HOBBYIST!!!!

Just think it out, maximize the air supply tubing, and consider
damage
control.

I'm puttin it all in the garage!!! (Next project is to insulate
around
the whole system!

In the garage?? You will need a lot of insulation to run it any
length into
the house. It's not that warm in Mississauga.


Thanx Jim! As always, you are a veritable font of wisdom! How are
you
faring these days? Have you got your systems up to snuff again?
Cheers!

Thanks. Still struggling to get back at it. Still doing guppy shows,
and
have a speaking engagement in Kitchener in September. Would be nice
if they
could get my medications sorted out. Not easy coming back.

Jim



I suggest leaving the floor as is.....perhaps adding a mat to the
walkway to avoid slipping. When you do build your racks make sure the
posts are not sitting on the concrete. Some put hockey pucks under
them. This action keeps water (which will spill) from wicking up the
structure. For heating and air conditioning....try and find an old unit
like they use in cheap hotels that does both functions and mounts in a
hole cut in the wall. This will cool, heat, and also provide plain fan
air. Paint with a paint containing a anti-fungal/mildew agent since
that will naturally want to grow in a moist environment. You may want
to invest in some type of aux power. Either a generator or battery
backup for the main pump. If you invest a lot of money in fish, an
automatic start generator and fail over circuits may be in the cards....

If your tanks are drilled already......common filtration could make a
lot of sense....with auto water changes being easier to do.

good luck... If only money was no object..

Mid Posted

On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 23:47:25 -0500, "Racf"
wrote:




I suggest leaving the floor as is.....perhaps adding a mat to the
walkway to avoid slipping.

Thats what I'd pretty much have to do... I don't have the skill
required to buld a subfloor. The rack itself was my first attempt at
carpentry. It came out well, mainly because I took 3 months to do it,
one piece at a time...


When you do build your racks make sure the
posts are not sitting on the concrete. Some put hockey pucks under
them. This action keeps water (which will spill) from wicking up the
structure.

Thats what I was thinking about too.. I was thinking about those
rubber shock mats you see in industrial applications... 1/2" thick
usually, and they have big holes in them.. .I figure the water won't
collect, and I can just cover the whole area in it, including the
walkways.. it might even help w/ minute leveling adjustments.

For heating and air conditioning....try and find an old unit
like they use in cheap hotels that does both functions and mounts in a
hole cut in the wall. This will cool, heat, and also provide plain fan
air.

I can't cut any holes in the wall there because it would lead into my
front foyer. I know the ones you mean though..

Paint with a paint containing a anti-fungal/mildew agent since
that will naturally want to grow in a moist environment.

I stained the rack w/ a hardwood floor stain (red cedar).. Looks very
nice, but I think I should have gone w/ something designed for decks
and fences.

You may want
to invest in some type of aux power. Either a generator or battery
backup for the main pump. If you invest a lot of money in fish, an
automatic start generator and fail over circuits may be in the cards....

I will look at some sort of APC battery backup, but we've never had
anby power outages here. A back up generator is way out of my budget.


If your tanks are drilled already......common filtration could make a
lot of sense....with auto water changes being easier to do.

The 6 tanks that will go on the rack are drilled w/ bulkheads and over
flow guards. These are from an aquarium store that went out of
business I think. I plan to have a sump system to filter them
eventually. I actually have a 35 gal sump running on my 100 gallon
right now w/ like 10 gallons of bioballs. I might bring that out to
the rack and just use a fluval and aquaclear on the 100 gal..

I will have quite a bit of filtration from the linear air pump.. I'm
going to put 2 sponges in each tank.


good luck... If only money was no object..

I wish... there would be human living tanks in my underwater home...

Last but not least, you should plan for adequate ventilation. A wall or
ceiling mounted exhaust fan of suitable size, and also, corresponding
vents to allow in fresh air. In a tight room the humidity will be high
and everything will be wet....and spills would never dissipate. I
forgot this on the earlier post... For vents I like the little cheap
plastic ones intended for the end of a central air duct, that allow you
to adjust how open or closed it is...
Perhaps a bathroom type vent could suck enough air, some of those have
heaters in them...but I wonder if there is a thermostat. Of course then
the question of where it would be vented to arises. I have two
bathrooms in my house. One is vented out a duct and out through the
roof, while the other is simply vented to the attic.

I guess your local weather pattern will help decide what if anything you
will need to do.

The ventilation is important. I run a small window size exhaust fan spring,
summer and fall in my basement fish room and a dehumidifier the rest of the
year. I have considered a heat exchanger, but I haven't purchased one at
this point.


"Racf" wrote in message
...
Last but not least, you should plan for adequate ventilation. A wall or
ceiling mounted exhaust fan of suitable size, and also, corresponding
vents to allow in fresh air. In a tight room the humidity will be high
and everything will be wet....and spills would never dissipate. I
forgot this on the earlier post... For vents I like the little cheap
plastic ones intended for the end of a central air duct, that allow you
to adjust how open or closed it is...
Perhaps a bathroom type vent could suck enough air, some of those have
heaters in them...but I wonder if there is a thermostat. Of course then
the question of where it would be vented to arises. I have two
bathrooms in my house. One is vented out a duct and out through the
roof, while the other is simply vented to the attic.

I guess your local weather pattern will help decide what if anything you
will need to do.

I've got one of those industrial window exhaust unit. I could build it
into the wall i'm putting in to separate the room from the rest ofthe
garage. I can use a hose to route the intake for the linear air pump
from outside the room, to ensure that the air supply into the tanks is
always fresh and dry.. I'm in Brampton Ontario, just north west of
Toronto.. Winters are pretty cold...

On Mon, 4 Aug 2003 13:42:00 -0500, "Racf"
wrote:

Last but not least, you should plan for adequate ventilation. A wall or
ceiling mounted exhaust fan of suitable size, and also, corresponding
vents to allow in fresh air. In a tight room the humidity will be high
and everything will be wet....and spills would never dissipate. I
forgot this on the earlier post... For vents I like the little cheap
plastic ones intended for the end of a central air duct, that allow you
to adjust how open or closed it is...
Perhaps a bathroom type vent could suck enough air, some of those have
heaters in them...but I wonder if there is a thermostat. Of course then
the question of where it would be vented to arises. I have two
bathrooms in my house. One is vented out a duct and out through the
roof, while the other is simply vented to the attic.

I guess your local weather pattern will help decide what if anything you
will need to do.

"The Madd Hatter" wrote in message
...
I've got one of those industrial window exhaust unit. I could build it
into the wall i'm putting in to separate the room from the rest ofthe
garage. I can use a hose to route the intake for the linear air pump
from outside the room, to ensure that the air supply into the tanks is
always fresh and dry.. I'm in Brampton Ontario, just north west of
Toronto.. Winters are pretty cold...


I didn't even guess you were in that part of the hemisphere, especially
when you said there was a cold water faucet in the garage. I guess cold
water faucet is a good description. Well, the good news is the slab
floor will keep the room nice and cool year round....

I'm down in Champlin MN near Minneapolis, where the winters are a bit
more tropical... I guess your garage faucet stem is also a foot long
like ours here...

I use a space heater in a well insulated room built in the basement only the aquarium. Some tanks have heaters to meet the warm love of fish, Like a discus, zebra plecos, and paradise fish spawning. A wall-mounted gas gas water heater if you are not cheap, but better long-term goal. I would like to once is not enough space for the vent.