I think I just killed all my fish

Jeff Dantzler wrote:
Dan J. S. wrote:

Use Amquel next time. It's the best friend to a Python system. Works
quick, and eliminates Nitrates and Ammonia.. nitrites too!!


Can you provide some support for the claim that Amquel
eliminates nitrates? Where do they go?

From:
http://www.novalek.com/kpd51.htm
"AmQuel quickly and effectively removes ammonia, chlorine and
chloramines"

Please think before you post erroneous information.

Jeff Dantzler

Please practice what you preach!

http://www.novalek.com/kpd79.htm

Dan J. S. wrote:
Jeff Dantzler wrote:
Dan J. S. wrote:

Use Amquel next time. It's the best friend to a Python system. Works
quick, and eliminates Nitrates and Ammonia.. nitrites too!!

Please practice what you preach!

http://www.novalek.com/kpd79.htm

I may have jumped the gun on this one...

However--Dan refered to "Amquel", which from the link I cited
"Contains 100% sodium hydroxymethanesulfonate". This will do nothing
to combat high nitrite or nitrate. It is to deal with chloramine and
ammonia just as I asserted.

From http://www.novalek.com/kpd79.htm,
"As a general rule, when using tap water in which chlorine and chloramines
are present, but not nitrites, nitrates or other organics -- then it is
safe to use the less expensive AmQuel. If there is the possibility of
nitrites, nitrates and other organics being involved, then Amquel+ is
recommended."

Amquel+ is not what Dan refered to.

I was not aware of the newer Amquel+ and Dan may have in fact meant to
type Amquel+. Sorry for being too quick to criticize.

I am not a big fan of fancy products that magically make metabolites like
nitrite or nitrate "dissappear". I assure you the nitrogen is still in
the tank in one form or another.

The only way to get rid of the nitrogen is to do water changes, or to
drive enough photosynthesis that the excess nitrogen gets locked up in
plant biomass. You can also get fancy carbon or resin that will adsorb
nitrite or nitrate, but I personally am not interested in being locking
into buying such products on a monthly basis. Water changes are cheap.

Hope this clarifies.

Jeff Dantzler

"SA" wrote in
:

[Snip]
I too was not certain as to whether or not it was ok to use the
python to fill the tank as opposed to a bucket of water that
gets prepared first. But I figured many people use their python
to fill their tanks and I have in the past also without an
incident. I wasn't sure if adding the water treatment was
supposed to be before adding new water or during, I figured
during would be better.

[snip]

Steve,

In my experience, after reaching a certain threshold concentration,
chloramine, a chlorine derivative common in many public water
supplies, is instantly toxic to fish. Something in your post
suggested to me that you might have added dechlorinator (most such
products also neutralize chloramine) several minutes after
completing your water change -- a water change that was more than
usual. If that had happened, then there was a chance that you had
poisoned your fish with chloramine. (Smaller water changes might
not be enough to reach the toxic threshold, so you may never have
noticed this before). I know this can happen because I did it once,
when I was young and ignorant, to a tankful of Tanganyikans.
However, if you were adding dechlorinator at the same time as adding
water, then I would not think chloramine would be the explanation.

Regards,
Meph

On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 20:21:03 -0600, "Rick"
wrote:

I have water stored in my basement that I keep heated and agitated with an
airstone and this water I use in a lot of my tanks. My 77g tank upstairs and
my 50 g hex tank are both planted tanks that I use the Python on to do 50%
weekly water changes. When I am finished my tanks are full of bubbles, the
glass is covered, the plants are covered, everything is covered. I do this
week after week after week and have never lost a fish. I live in Canada and
the water does have more gas content than in summer however I have never
experienced a problem. However like everything in this hobby, YMMV.

You heat the water up first so that would lessen the problem.

When I did water changes in the summer, I would get a lot of bubbles,
too, but no problems. I think bubbles are a indicator of dissolved
gasses but the incoming water temperature determines the severity of
the problem.

In the winter, fish would be seen hyperventilating and hanging out at
the surface. If you do a water change, watch your fishes' respiratory
rate afterwards or better yet, during.

It took me awhile to realize what the problem was (I finally did a
Google newsgroup search). Search for gas bubble disease or gas emboli.
Since then, I've been heating the water outside the tank and creating
a waterfall with a powerhead. Then when I add the water hours later,
gradually, there are no bubbles and no hyperventilating. Cichlids are
pretty resistant to this but even they have limits. You might not
reach them in the summer but a slightly bigger water change on a
slightly colder day could do it.

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 04:48:58 GMT, Mephistopheles
wrote:

However, if you were adding dechlorinator at the same time as adding
water, then I would not think chloramine would be the explanation.

While we're on the subject of adding dechlorinator, would you add
enough to treat a full tank or only the water you are changing?

I've always added enough to treat the entire tank, even if it was a
30% water change. A buddy of mine asked me why I did that, and I
didn't have an answer - I -always- did it that way

"Bitey" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 20:21:03 -0600, "Rick"
wrote:

I have water stored in my basement that I keep heated and agitated with
an
airstone and this water I use in a lot of my tanks. My 77g tank upstairs
and
my 50 g hex tank are both planted tanks that I use the Python on to do
50%
weekly water changes. When I am finished my tanks are full of bubbles,
the
glass is covered, the plants are covered, everything is covered. I do
this
week after week after week and have never lost a fish. I live in Canada
and
the water does have more gas content than in summer however I have never
experienced a problem. However like everything in this hobby, YMMV.

You heat the water up first so that would lessen the problem.

When I did water changes in the summer, I would get a lot of bubbles,
too, but no problems. I think bubbles are a indicator of dissolved
gasses but the incoming water temperature determines the severity of
the problem.

In the winter, fish would be seen hyperventilating and hanging out at
the surface. If you do a water change, watch your fishes' respiratory
rate afterwards or better yet, during.

It took me awhile to realize what the problem was (I finally did a
Google newsgroup search). Search for gas bubble disease or gas emboli.
Since then, I've been heating the water outside the tank and creating
a waterfall with a powerhead. Then when I add the water hours later,
gradually, there are no bubbles and no hyperventilating. Cichlids are
pretty resistant to this but even they have limits. You might not
reach them in the summer but a slightly bigger water change on a
slightly colder day could do it.


the stored water is only because I have a R/O system in my house and I can't
stand the amount of waste water it takes to create a gallon of r/o water
which I use in a lot of my Corydoras tanks. I run a drain line to the
basement from the R/O system and can keep 3 large plastic garbage bins full
all the time. So seeing as how it is sitting there anyway I have a 200 watt
heater in one bin and an airstone and I simply move them from bin to bin as
I empty one or the other. I don't use any preheated and agitated water in my
upstairs tanks. The Hex contains angel fish and the 77 planted is a
community tank with loaches, bala sharks, platty's, cardinals, neon's,
Molly's etc and like I say I add directly from the python to the tank. Never
had a problem, no fish appear stressed at all. I also have Otto's in that
tank and they are very susceptible to change in water conditons and they
appear fine. Just my experience and my lack of problem certainly is not an
indication that someone else may not have one.

Rick

Do you live in the San Francisco Bay Area?

Cities that get their water from Hetch Hetchy added chloramines starting Feb
2.

I lost a tank of fish the hard way on this one.

You gotta remove the chloramines BEFORE they go in the tank. I had the same
question.

"SA" wrote in message
...
I cannot believe I did this but I think I managed to kill an entire tank
of
cichlids tonight. I am really bombed out about it.

I have a 45 gallon tank with some juveniles thriving for the past 3
months.
Typically I changed the water once a month when I had some community fish
in
there and once the cichlids were really small. Today I decided to test for
nitrates and switch to a biweekly water change. I had changed 25% two
weeks
ago. The nitrates were kind high so I decided to a more aggressive water
change around 40% of the water, I used a python like I always do and
filled
the tank up with water close to temp as the tank. The thermometer did not
register a temp change and the heater stayed up after it was full for
maybe
3min I used a water treatment in the tank. immediately after this all my
fish went to shock, sitting at the bottom of the tank still gasping for
air.
Couldn't understand what went wrong initially I thought they were just
frightened because of the substrate vacuum etc.

Two hours later still gasping and one already dead... I'm afraid they will
be more!

I am so mad right now.

Any comments as to what might have gone wrong are very much appreciated.

And just yesterday I was bragging about their colors and behavior to my
wife, I screwed my self so bad.

TIA

Steve

Water should be heating tanks and a number of outside pressure in the atmosphere help to the air-water mixing. I have a powerhead water pump A few feet above the container, heater and down to it. After several hours, I added the water tank replacement of course, a few hours.

As continued as you add the dechlorinator to the water it makes no aberration if you do it afore or during the action of adding the tap water. I use a python and consistently add dechlorinates while refilling and in 35 tanks I've never absent a angle during that process.