Newbie fish disaster at hand

In article ,
says...
Geezer From The Freezer wrote in message ...
1 Gallon!!!!!! No wonder it's ill.

You'd need to change the water every single day!

Do you have any friends who have aquariums - maybe they could help.
OR if the fish shop will take it back, give it back to them.

Poor fish.

I appreciate the advice (although some is a bit harsh). I talked to
several people who I trusted and followed the advice I received.

I never intended to hurt anything. This is one little fish 1 inch in
length. I just cannot imagine why it would need a 10 gallon tank (but
I guess I know better now). When the problem arose I sought to rectify
it using the best means available. Bettas are a very good idea, but
Goldie is not dead and seems much better now that I have changed her
water and am monitoring the ammonia levels daily with those little dip
strips as well as water temperature. I have been using the MelaFix for
her skin and cut down drastically on her food amount (again, this was
the main problem I discovered).


Harsh is in the ear of the beholder. What you actually heard was
frustration. You can't imagine how often your tale gets told here.
I blame the petstore more than you, if it's any consolation.
I (or rather, my first goldfish) fell victim to exactly the
same advice. That was almost exactly two years ago, and I've
still got my 2nd fish (he said, chest puffing with pride).

But to the point....
You're right, of course, a 1" fish in a 10g tank would look
silly: I think the same thing whenever I look at my new 20g that
contains 2 little guys right now. But I know from experience that
they'll grow to be 6" long in about a year, barring any unfortunate
problems, and then 20g will look small. I have 5 goldfish in
a 55Gal and they look crowded to me.

You're doing the right thing -- monitoring ammonia, changing
water -- but I still urge you to get a bigger tank if at all
possible. It's much more fun to do weekly water changes
than daily ones, and the fish do better as well.
(See http://faq.thekrib.com/map.html for lots of good info,
particularly about the nitrogen cycle.)

And you'll eventually need the bigger one anyway, so best
get to it. In fact, I'd recommend a 20 (or more), since you're going
to want 2 fish once you get into it. My 2nd tank, for my 2nd
goldfish, was a 25tall, and eventually it was too small since
I wanted more than three fish.

Gunther

Thank you Gunther. I'm sorry I have frustrated everyone. Really I
thought the pet store would know given the huge size of their fish
area and the fact that the staff seemed very interested and offered
what I thought were rational options. It seems to me if the 1 fish to
10 gall rule is critical that it would be more mentioned outside of
listservs.

I will say to the 6" growth I was told they won't grow unless you get
a bigger tank, so I felt safe. That being said, 10 gallon is not out
of the question. Perhaps I can move Goldie to that and get a Betta for
the smaller tank (which seems certainly large enough given the size of
those golf ball size tanks they are kept in at the store).

Goldie, btw, is covered in a lot of black spots but seems happy,
eating and swimming. I have not done daily water changes as the levels
seem fine and the water is clear. I will continue to monitor the
situation.

Thanks
Marie

In article ,
says...
Thank you Gunther. I'm sorry I have frustrated everyone. Really I
thought the pet store would know given the huge size of their fish
area and the fact that the staff seemed very interested and offered
what I thought were rational options. It seems to me if the 1 fish to
10 gall rule is critical that it would be more mentioned outside of
listservs.

You have to remember their job is to sell you stuff. And I've often
suspected that there are many aquarists who are truly knowledgeable
in most areas but have never kept goldfish, and are thus unqualified
to give advice. And they actually look down on goldfish, I think.
But they do know that if you buy a 1 gallon tank, you're apt to
have a fatality in a week or so. And you'll be back. With money.
You'll have better luck if you read up on the hobby independently,
library books, here, sites like www.thekrib.com, Puregold
(http://users.megapathdsl.net/~solo/puregold/), and others.


I will say to the 6" growth I was told they won't grow unless you get
a bigger tank, so I felt safe.
I've heard that myth myself, and no longer believe it.
Others here may know more about it.

That being said, 10 gallon is not out
of the question. Perhaps I can move Goldie to that and get a Betta for
the smaller tank (which seems certainly large enough given the size of
those golf ball size tanks they are kept in at the store).

Good plan, I think.

Goldie, btw, is covered in a lot of black spots but seems happy,
eating and swimming. I have not done daily water changes as the levels
seem fine and the water is clear.

Um...bad plan, that. Change that water. Unless Goldie had those
spots when you got him/her, they indicate a probable water problem.
I think I can guarantee that a new, uncycled 1 gallon tank with
an under-gravel filter and a goldfish has very high ammonia levels,
regardless of what test strips might indicate. Do a 50% change
with temperature-matched, de-chlorinated water, just for drill, OK?


I will continue to monitor the
situation.

Good luck,
Gunther

Gunther wrote in message Goldie, btw, is covered in a lot of black spots but seems happy,
eating and swimming. I have not done daily water changes as the levels
seem fine and the water is clear.

Um...bad plan, that. Change that water. Unless Goldie had those
spots when you got him/her, they indicate a probable water problem.
I think I can guarantee that a new, uncycled 1 gallon tank with
an under-gravel filter and a goldfish has very high ammonia levels,
regardless of what test strips might indicate. Do a 50% change
with temperature-matched, de-chlorinated water, just for drill, OK?


Yes, as you suspected, the amonia began to increase (water clarity has
remained excellent now that I reduced feedings to several tiny amounts
durng the day). I've found now that every other day changing out 50%
of the water and replacing it with matched temperature, de-chlor etc'd
water has kept the levels good. BTW, this isn't really that hard given
the size of the tank. Not really a chore. T've been treating the water
with Melafix since I determined the water was initially so badly out
of whack. I hope this is helping, the black continues to spread (I
thought this was a sign of healing and considering the state of her
initial water she probably will be midnight black for a while).

I've found out that my son's preschool has a 10 gall acquarium with
heater, filters etc and that the day care lady is quite a fish
afficionado. I plan to ask her if Goldie can have a new home with her.
My one concern is that the tank currently has three small (1
inch)fancy tail guppies and maybe a Betta (not sure). Will the
goldfish eat these (or conversely, will they eat him?)

Marie

In article ,
says...
Yes, as you suspected, the amonia began to increase (water clarity has
remained excellent now that I reduced feedings to several tiny amounts
durng the day). I've found now that every other day changing out 50%
of the water and replacing it with matched temperature, de-chlor etc'd
water has kept the levels good. BTW, this isn't really that hard given
the size of the tank. Not really a chore. T've been treating the water
with Melafix since I determined the water was initially so badly out
of whack. I hope this is helping, the black continues to spread (I
thought this was a sign of healing and considering the state of her
initial water she probably will be midnight black for a while).

I've found out that my son's preschool has a 10 gall acquarium with
heater, filters etc and that the day care lady is quite a fish
afficionado. I plan to ask her if Goldie can have a new home with her.
My one concern is that the tank currently has three small (1
inch)fancy tail guppies and maybe a Betta (not sure). Will the
goldfish eat these (or conversely, will they eat him?)

Marie

I'm not sure what the timing is between burn and blackening. It
could well be that it's still spreading because it's still getting
burned between PWCs. Since you agree that water quality is
of paramount importance, why not just do them daily for a while
as a just-in-case? As you say, it's not that big a chore, and
is good for the fish.

If the day-care lady is a real fish-ionado(*), she'll probably resist
just adding another fish to an existing setup. I know I would:
even a small goldfish would be close to doubling the biomass,
and more than doubling the ammonia production, I suspect.
In other words, more work for her that she may not want.
But I suspect she might be open to a deal: maybe you
volunteer to help out with time or fishfood or ?

Good luck.
Gunther

(*) - I hereby claim all rights and privileges with respect to
the word "fish-ionado" or derivations thereof for commercial
and/or artistic purposes.

Gunther wrote:

(*) - I hereby claim all rights and privileges with respect to
the word "fish-ionado" or derivations thereof for commercial
and/or artistic purposes.

Prior art...
http://www.wadefish.com/

-D
--
"There is nothing so strong as gentleness, and there is nothing so
gentle as real strength." St. Francis de Sales

The tank at the daycare is heated to 82 degrees, which I see is
outside the preferred range for goldfish.

I will continue the daily water changes until we find Goldie a new
home. Her black is spreading. I'm not sure how long she has left.

Thanks
Marie