startng new planted tank comments pls

TANK
i have a tank that is 48" (long)X 18"(wide)x24" (deep) = 90 gallons
base foot print 48"x18"=864 square inches
LIGHT
i have sofar bought a Compact Fluorescent 4x65watt (6700 k)total 260 watts
see below
http://www.esuweb.com/new_site/ccc_53116
i am hopeing that that is enought light.( 260watts / 90 = 2.88 watt per gal)
SUBSTRATE

2x7kg (15.4 ibs) flourite= 14 kgs (30.8 lbs)
coverage recommended is 1kg (2lbs)per 31"sq
therfore 864/31=28 kg i have about half recommended amount
http://www.seachem.com/seachemframeset.html

also i have
3x5.4kg(12lbs) flora base=16.2kg they also recommed 2" deep
(and should ont be rinsed????)
http://www.redseafish.com/Product.as...D=33&proID=115

ok now my questions
i think my lighting is ok i have not considered plants yet i will make
then match to light

florabase recommendes a ugf should i add??
i have one lying around just need new up tubes and powerheads
should flora base go ontop or under flourite???
i was thinking of sloping gravel from back (high) to front (low)??
other filter will be hagen canister 304
and maybe one other if i can get one at vancouver aquatic hobbyist club sale
for cheap
http://www.fishopolis.com/vahc/auction2003.html
should i also add under gravel heater???
i would much like to here your thoughts
thanks les

wrote in message
TANK
i have a tank that is 48" (long)X 18"(wide)x24" (deep) = 90 gallons
base foot print 48"x18"=864 square inches
LIGHT
i have sofar bought a Compact Fluorescent 4x65watt (6700 k)total 260 watts
see below
http://www.esuweb.com/new_site/ccc_53116
i am hopeing that that is enought light.( 260watts / 90 = 2.88 watt per
gal)
SUBSTRATE

2x7kg (15.4 ibs) flourite= 14 kgs (30.8 lbs)
coverage recommended is 1kg (2lbs)per 31"sq
therfore 864/31=28 kg i have about half recommended amount
http://www.seachem.com/seachemframeset.html

also i have
3x5.4kg(12lbs) flora base=16.2kg they also recommed 2" deep
(and should ont be rinsed????)
http://www.redseafish.com/Product.as...D=33&proID=115

ok now my questions
i think my lighting is ok i have not considered plants yet i will make
then match to light

florabase recommendes a ugf should i add??
UGF, No... just add powerheads for circulation, planted tanks don't work
with UGFs, there's lots of info on that in here, you can google to find
them...

should flora base go ontop or under flourite???
Most people mix, flourite and gravel, or flora or laterite, whatever... some
do layer, but it'll all end up mixed anyway.... Rinsing? yes, some, but
don't go all out trying to get it clean... I say, rinse one time, and put in
tank, then siphon off the crudd and skim the surface, it'll all settle down
in a day or two...

i was thinking of sloping gravel from back (high) to front (low)??
You can do that, it's your tank, there is no right or wrong way... alot will
play out as you go.... when you plant, you'll get the idea and go with it..

other filter will be hagen canister 304
and maybe one other if i can get one at vancouver aquatic hobbyist club
sale
for cheap
http://www.fishopolis.com/vahc/auction2003.html
Cool...

should i also add under gravel heater???
Not necessary... a regular heater, one in each corner will do fine... I
would put a 150-250watter in each corner....

i would much like to here your thoughts
thanks les

Good luck... seems that you've started well...

RedForeman ©® wrote in message
...
...
UGF, No... just add powerheads for circulation, planted tanks don't work
with UGFs, there's lots of...

Planted tanks work just fine with UGF's.

There are only three compelling reasons I've ever heard for not using ugf in
a planted tank. First, that the roots get tangled in the plates is bogus -
it's never happened to me and I prune roots and move plants continuously in
all my tanks, including my monster-mother red-spot ozelot swords. Second,
that you can't use root tabs to feed swords and such because they dissolve
into the water column too quickly is true but, IMHO, not a problem due to
enhanced circulation of nutrients through the substrate making root tabs
unnecessary. Third, that you cannot use laterite or flourite because it
sifts through the plates and gets blasted out the heads is, unfortunately,
true. However, I prefer to use a fine gravel substrate anyway.

IME, unless you are planning on using a fine/powdery substrate like
flourite, UGF's can be the superior option for a planted tank.

kush

I use UGF too and it works fine.

The reason your roots aren't getting tangled in the plates is because you
admittedly prune and move often. If you left the swords alone for a while
the roots would go through the plates.

I'm hangin' tough on the UGF for now but I'll go canister as soon as it
becomes a pain.

"Dunter Powries" wrote in message
...
RedForeman ©® wrote in message
...
...
UGF, No... just add powerheads for circulation, planted tanks don't work
with UGFs, there's lots of...

Planted tanks work just fine with UGF's.

There are only three compelling reasons I've ever heard for not using ugf
in
a planted tank. First, that the roots get tangled in the plates is
bogus -
it's never happened to me and I prune roots and move plants continuously
in
all my tanks, including my monster-mother red-spot ozelot swords. Second,
that you can't use root tabs to feed swords and such because they dissolve
into the water column too quickly is true but, IMHO, not a problem due to
enhanced circulation of nutrients through the substrate making root tabs
unnecessary. Third, that you cannot use laterite or flourite because it
sifts through the plates and gets blasted out the heads is, unfortunately,
true. However, I prefer to use a fine gravel substrate anyway.

IME, unless you are planning on using a fine/powdery substrate like
flourite, UGF's can be the superior option for a planted tank.

kush

"Dunter Powries" wrote in message
...
RedForeman ©® wrote in message
...
...
UGF, No... just add powerheads for circulation, planted tanks don't work
with UGFs, there's lots of...

Planted tanks work just fine with UGF's.

There are only three compelling reasons I've ever heard for not using ugf
in
a planted tank. First, that the roots get tangled in the plates is
bogus -
it's never happened to me and I prune roots and move plants continuously
in
all my tanks, including my monster-mother red-spot ozelot swords. Second,
that you can't use root tabs to feed swords and such because they dissolve
into the water column too quickly is true but, IMHO, not a problem due to
enhanced circulation of nutrients through the substrate making root tabs
unnecessary. Third, that you cannot use laterite or flourite because it
sifts through the plates and gets blasted out the heads is, unfortunately,
true. However, I prefer to use a fine gravel substrate anyway.

IME, unless you are planning on using a fine/powdery substrate like
flourite, UGF's can be the superior option for a planted tank.

kush

I know, I have a planted tank with UGFs, I was only stating there is no
necessity for UGFs, and on a 90g tank, they become useless quicker, and are
harder to take out, if and when, the user decides to do so....

I have had crypts, and swords that DO get tangled in the plates, causing the
plates to clog and the end result is disasterous... Swords DEMAND root tabs,
because, they are heavy root feeders, but if swords are the ONLY heavy root
feeders, that is something the end user will have to determine, and I
have, and still do use flourite over the UGF and the smaller parts are what
clog the filter plates...

I had worse algae WITHOUT the ugf, and I still can't explain that without
getting confused about it... I'm not professing you MUST or MUST NOT... I
have only the personal experience, and what I've read in the last 2 years in
this group, which is, as a whole, a planted tank doesn't HAVE to have a
UGF....

kush, where you been??? haven't seen you much lately...

Okay... I've stayed out of this whole UGF thing before but... Have you guys
ever thought about setting up the UGF this way:
Place a layer of poly batting which comes in rolls (used for quilting and
stuff) on top of the plates and tuck it under the plates. Then add laterite
or whatever and then normal substrate over that. Cut Xs where the tubing
needs to come out of the plates and slide the batting over it. The batting
keeps the laterite from getting into the powerheads or whatever you use to
drive the UGF. I personally used this method when I set up an undergravel
filter and never had a problem. I used peagravel over the batting, then
laterite and then sand on top. When I finally moved and broke the tank down
the batting was serving as a biological filter and a fertilizer layer for
the Amazons... they had roots all through the batting so I guess that's
where all the nutrients were being caught and that's where the sword's roots
stayed. I plan to use this method again someday but right now I'm just
depending on my Fluval 304.

You have got a rock solid combo for your tank. IMO Florabase is overkill.
Make sure to add CO2 either DIY or pressurized... with that much light it
will do you wonders.
I wouldn't worry about a UGF IME they are a PITA.
Ben

wrote in message
om...
TANK
i have a tank that is 48" (long)X 18"(wide)x24" (deep) = 90 gallons
base foot print 48"x18"=864 square inches
LIGHT
i have sofar bought a Compact Fluorescent 4x65watt (6700 k)total 260 watts
see below
http://www.esuweb.com/new_site/ccc_53116
i am hopeing that that is enought light.( 260watts / 90 = 2.88 watt per
gal)
SUBSTRATE

2x7kg (15.4 ibs) flourite= 14 kgs (30.8 lbs)
coverage recommended is 1kg (2lbs)per 31"sq
therfore 864/31=28 kg i have about half recommended amount
http://www.seachem.com/seachemframeset.html

also i have
3x5.4kg(12lbs) flora base=16.2kg they also recommed 2" deep
(and should ont be rinsed????)
http://www.redseafish.com/Product.as...D=33&proID=115

ok now my questions
i think my lighting is ok i have not considered plants yet i will make
then match to light

florabase recommendes a ugf should i add??
i have one lying around just need new up tubes and powerheads
should flora base go ontop or under flourite???
i was thinking of sloping gravel from back (high) to front (low)??
other filter will be hagen canister 304
and maybe one other if i can get one at vancouver aquatic hobbyist club
sale
for cheap
http://www.fishopolis.com/vahc/auction2003.html
should i also add under gravel heater???
i would much like to here your thoughts
thanks les

wrote:

TANK
i have a tank that is 48" (long)X 18"(wide)x24" (deep) = 90 gallons
base foot print 48"x18"=864 square inches
LIGHT
i have sofar bought a Compact Fluorescent 4x65watt (6700 k)total 260 watts
see below
http://www.esuweb.com/new_site/ccc_53116
i am hopeing that that is enought light.( 260watts / 90 = 2.88 watt per gal)

This is marginal to inadequate for your tank. I have a 24"deep 72 gallon
bowfront, which is the same depth but a bit smaller than your tank. 4x55w from
AHSupply, with their best bulbs and reflectors, is barely adequate for me.
Tricky substrate plants all fail, but above the substrate my plants tend to be
OK.

Remember, your tank is 24 inches deep. It's the depth that causes the problem.


SUBSTRATE

2x7kg (15.4 ibs) flourite= 14 kgs (30.8 lbs)
coverage recommended is 1kg (2lbs)per 31"sq
therfore 864/31=28 kg i have about half recommended amount
http://www.seachem.com/seachemframeset.html

also i have
3x5.4kg(12lbs) flora base=16.2kg they also recommed 2" deep
(and should ont be rinsed????)
http://www.redseafish.com/Product.as...D=33&proID=115

Sorry, you don't have enough substrate. I use 5 bags of Flourite in my tank, and
have barely 2inches, less in some places. I should put in another 2 bags. You
need more.

Regarding mixing with gravel, SOME people do it (not MOST people, by any means).
If you want to, be sure to use at least 50% Flourite, and pick a similar-sized
and shaped gravel. If the gravel is too large or small, the layers will
separate. If you can't find similar size, go a bit smaller rather than larger.

I was thinking of sloping gravel from back (high) to front (low)??

Works fine, but hard to maintain over time. Try it, you may be lucky.

Should i also add under gravel heater???

Most people who use them seem to be in high-altitude, low temperature places
like Colorado. Here in sunny California, they are not very popular.

On 20 Oct 2003 16:10:07 -0700, wrote:

TANK
i have a tank that is 48" (long)X 18"(wide)x24" (deep) = 90 gallons
base foot print 48"x18"=864 square inches
LIGHT
i have sofar bought a Compact Fluorescent 4x65watt (6700 k)total 260 watts
see below
http://www.esuweb.com/new_site/ccc_53116
i am hopeing that that is enought light.( 260watts / 90 = 2.88 watt per gal)
SUBSTRATE

2x7kg (15.4 ibs) flourite= 14 kgs (30.8 lbs)
coverage recommended is 1kg (2lbs)per 31"sq
therfore 864/31=28 kg i have about half recommended amount
http://www.seachem.com/seachemframeset.html

also i have
3x5.4kg(12lbs) flora base=16.2kg they also recommed 2" deep
(and should ont be rinsed????)
http://www.redseafish.com/Product.as...D=33&proID=115

ok now my questions
i think my lighting is ok i have not considered plants yet i will make
then match to light

florabase recommendes a ugf should i add??
i have one lying around just need new up tubes and powerheads
should flora base go ontop or under flourite???
i was thinking of sloping gravel from back (high) to front (low)??
other filter will be hagen canister 304
and maybe one other if i can get one at vancouver aquatic hobbyist club sale
for cheap
http://www.fishopolis.com/vahc/auction2003.html
should i also add under gravel heater???
i would much like to here your thoughts
thanks les
As far as UGF go I had one in my 55 a few years ago and I can
report that I had explosive plant growth for a while till the plate
got plugged up with roots then major decline of plants. This was
followed by sand without UGF-not good as sand that was supposed
to be non-calcerous was. Latest version has Flourite substrate and
under gravel cable heating.- the tank is stable and most everything is
growing well. CO2,MH lighting and trickle filter for filter (all
homemade except lights ( 2 Corallife 175w pendants-)