Thinking tiny

hows your
water quality(at least ammonia/nitrite/nitrate/ph/salinity)
lighting
water motion in the tank
give details on everything dont say your levels are OK give us the levels.


--
Richard Reynolds




"rtk" wrote in message ...
Although I have two ponds, three critter tanks: 30, 75, 120 gallons, a
55 gal. cichid and a 38 gal.community tank, I have purchased only a
little 20 tank for my first marine aquarium. So far, I have a clownfish
and a yellow-tailed damsel with two anemones, some live rock and a
shrimp plus an assortment of old dead shells and coral. The mechanics
for my 20 long are a *skilter* 250 and under gravel filtering,
pulverized stuff and a couple old sponges I got in Greece ages ago.

My question: I have my browser open to PetSolution.com and I am
entranced and tempted by everything I see. The mushrooms and corals and
cucumbers, Oh my! I remind myself I'm supposed to be thinking small.
So I found this newsgroup and I'm confident some of you will tell me You
Must Get this! and definitely Don't get that! That's what I want to
hear. I appreciate all warnings and suggestions.

Ruth Kazez

I asked the pet shop to give me their old water so that I could have
fish in it right away. Therefore I have not yet made measurements on my
6 1/2 day old tank. The lighting, I was told, was suitable for reefs
and I should have asked exactly what it is. There is water movement
from the powerhead that's used with the ugf although I don't have a tube
+ venturi attached. There are tons of tiny bubbles from the *skilter*.
I have added a bit of store bought filtered water to replace the
little that has been lost by evaporation.
Ruth Kazez

you NEED to take those anemones back to the LFS, demand a full refund they never should
have sold them to you YET! a 6 day old tank is no place for anemone's

water doesnt cycle, using old water wont help, and the only anemone's that will survive a
cycle are the ones you dont want(ugly and eat $$$ fish including clowns), you need to go
out and buy test kits get ammonia nitrite nitrate and ph and something to test salinity
those you NEED and you need to test your tank water today, and post the results. if you
wanna go UGF you can, but be prepaired it takes work, most dont use them anymore, but they
do work there are just better ways. search for dsb's in this group you will find a few
posts over the last few days with details on how they work. a sump & refugium will allow
you to have a thin sand bed in the tank, and a larger filtering sand bed aside one can be
setup in a 10 gallon cheaply.

eventually you will need to know what kind of lights you have, if you describe the bulb,
here we can help you to identify what it is, and if its enough for a reef tank or not.
also if the skilter is producing bubbles in the tank, its not setup correct, or its still
too new to be usefull, either way its not doing its job yet.

--
Richard Reynolds

Phosphate: less than .50
Ammonia: too close to zero, no equivalent on chart.
PH: bluer than top of my chart which only goes to 7.6

I was asked didn't I cycle my freshwater tanks? Only the first, a 15
gallon. I used some of that water to kickstart my 38, then some of that
for the 55. I went on to use a bit of that water for my 120 gallon
turtle+fish tank and for my 75 gallon toads+fish tank. I also have tree
frogs. No water to speak of. I also used my tank water to get my 400
gallon pond started and again some of that water for my 2000 gallon
pond. So in all cases except the first little tank I was able to add
fish from the get go. My new 20 long marine tank was begun with old
water from the pet shop, so it seemed safe enough to put in two hardy
little fish. The anemones I knew might not make it, but in fact they
are looking full and healthy so far. I started with no ugf, just the
combo filter/skimmer, but I was dissatisfied with appearance of so
little ground, therefore I followed the advice of Blasiola's Sal****er
Aquarium Handbook and added the ugf, which I also use in my freshwater
tanks (in addition to other filtering), but with tubes and venturi for
maximum bubbles because I have heavy loads in those tanks.

I very much appreciate the responses to my request for caveats and
suggestions.

Ruth Kazez

Possibly a little troll...?

"rtk" wrote in message ...


Richard Reynolds wrote:
hows your
water quality(at least ammonia/nitrite/nitrate/ph/salinity)
lighting
water motion in the tank
give details on everything dont say your levels are OK give us the
levels.

I asked the pet shop to give me their old water so that I could have
fish in it right away. Therefore I have not yet made measurements on my
6 1/2 day old tank. The lighting, I was told, was suitable for reefs
and I should have asked exactly what it is. There is water movement
from the powerhead that's used with the ugf although I don't have a tube
+ venturi attached. There are tons of tiny bubbles from the *skilter*.
I have added a bit of store bought filtered water to replace the
little that has been lost by evaporation.

Ruth Kazez

If you don't stop and do some research before you go any further you will be
in for a nightmare of a ride trying to get this "system" working correctly.
As said before bring the anemone back and do not shop at that LFS anymore
they aren't to be trusted.
lose the UGF and either go with a proper plenum or a Bare bottom tank with
lots of Live rock (DSB's aren't thought to be effective in small tanks like
a 20)
I am not saying those are the only two ways to do it just the easiest for
research and implementation.
If you can look directly at your lights without expieriencing pain in your
eyes there isn't enough light for anemone.
on my 7gallon nano I have 110W PC's and it is not enough for anemone IME
YMMV,
Toy
"rtk" wrote in message ...
Although I have two ponds, three critter tanks: 30, 75, 120 gallons, a
55 gal. cichid and a 38 gal.community tank, I have purchased only a
little 20 tank for my first marine aquarium. So far, I have a clownfish
and a yellow-tailed damsel with two anemones, some live rock and a
shrimp plus an assortment of old dead shells and coral. The mechanics
for my 20 long are a *skilter* 250 and under gravel filtering,
pulverized stuff and a couple old sponges I got in Greece ages ago.

My question: I have my browser open to PetSolution.com and I am
entranced and tempted by everything I see. The mushrooms and corals and
cucumbers, Oh my! I remind myself I'm supposed to be thinking small.
So I found this newsgroup and I'm confident some of you will tell me You
Must Get this! and definitely Don't get that! That's what I want to
hear. I appreciate all warnings and suggestions.

Ruth Kazez

[snip]
"Toyfreek" wrote in message
...
If you have any Amonia you shouldn't have animals in there.
Water does not cycle the tank it is the mature surface areas that breed
the
bacteria you want in an oxygen rich enviroment like the water column. The
tanks walls, rock, sand etc. is what Cycles not the water. however by
adding
the "used" water from the LFS you are kick starting the process slightly
and
if you bought good live rock you might expierience a small cycle that is
over in a week or so. The presence of amonia at all in your tank makes me
thing you have a ways to go yet.
GL,
Toy
[/snip]
I do not think he fully understand what cycle tank is. He believe using old
water is cycled tank.

[snip]
Phosphate: less than .50
Ammonia: too close to zero, no equivalent on chart.
PH: bluer than top of my chart which only goes to 7.6
[/snip]

What are the other water parameter?
So far you indicate Phosate, Ammonia and PH. What about Nitrite / Nitrate /
SG etc... The water will spike up and down until it stable. Your basic water
parameter atleast for these A/N/N should read all zero.

CapFusion,..

Bill wrote:
Possibly a little troll...?

"rtk" wrote in message ...

Me trolling? I have no idea why you think that. Apparently what I've
done seems so outrageous to you that you assume I'm just trying to stir
up some hostility for the fun of it. I'll take a photo tomorrow and put
it on my website with my other stuff. For my freshwater, here's a page.

http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/...f/Aquaria.html

Ruth Kazez

"Bill" wrote in message
.. .
Possibly a little troll...?

It (him?) seem to be round green shape with one eye and work in plixar
studio (?). Atleast from my viewing point. I think I heard this troll
calling his friend "Dada"(?), I think.

CapFusion,...

just in thinking with the PH test kit. you should be using SW capiable test kits for all
your testing, sw ph should be in the 8.3 area. dumping in old water even in FW doesnt
CYCLE the aquarium, it just gets you 40%ish of the way there, ALL freshwater fish can
tolerate some levels of ammonia and nitrite, SW inverts (includes anemones) will not
tolerate it, and the apearance of health today means nothing, it takes a while for these
guys to start to die, then they go fast. your tank also hasnt completely finished and
will spike higher levels of either ammonia or nitrite i cant really know where you are in
the cycle but guessing the first spike hasnt happened, you would have had to be testing
this over the past 6 days to be able to tell me if ammonia has droped or not if it hasnt
then its going up, nitrite wont start to peak until ammonia is almost gone, then it will
peak also, both are significantly harmfull to inverts, including anemones.

I dont know that book but i suggest that you go out and purchase either a current book or
a more reliable one, sand isnt a bad thing, and a 1/2" layer does look good, but UGF's in
SW are prone to old tank syndrom much sooner than in a FW tank. along with many other
problems including an incomplete bio filtration (not removing nitrates) something that can
be acomplished using other filtration methods.

here is a very quick list of books i like, and think you will also, i have also ran and
still run FW tanks, and have been running a few 6 SW tanks for a while now.
there in some kind of order, of preference the first 2 are a tie for first and the others
are a good 2nd palce.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...=6&pCatId=4878
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...=6&pCatId=8104
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...=6&pCatId=5032
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...=6&pCatId=6386


here are some specific ones you probibly will like, but maybee not use after you get used
to keeping SW tanks. in no order
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...=6&pCatId=4738
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...=6&pCatId=4731
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...=6&pCatId=4727
the entire reef notes at
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...=6&pCatId=8475 are good



--
Richard Reynolds




"rtk" wrote in message ...

Phosphate: less than .50
Ammonia: too close to zero, no equivalent on chart.
PH: bluer than top of my chart which only goes to 7.6

I was asked didn't I cycle my freshwater tanks? Only the first, a 15
gallon. I used some of that water to kickstart my 38, then some of that
for the 55. I went on to use a bit of that water for my 120 gallon
turtle+fish tank and for my 75 gallon toads+fish tank. I also have tree
frogs. No water to speak of. I also used my tank water to get my 400
gallon pond started and again some of that water for my 2000 gallon
pond. So in all cases except the first little tank I was able to add
fish from the get go. My new 20 long marine tank was begun with old
water from the pet shop, so it seemed safe enough to put in two hardy
little fish. The anemones I knew might not make it, but in fact they
are looking full and healthy so far. I started with no ugf, just the
combo filter/skimmer, but I was dissatisfied with appearance of so
little ground, therefore I followed the advice of Blasiola's Sal****er
Aquarium Handbook and added the ugf, which I also use in my freshwater
tanks (in addition to other filtering), but with tubes and venturi for
maximum bubbles because I have heavy loads in those tanks.

I very much appreciate the responses to my request for caveats and
suggestions.

Ruth Kazez

"rtk" wrote in message ...


Bill wrote:
Possibly a little troll...?

"rtk" wrote in message ...

Me trolling? I have no idea why you think that. Apparently what I've
done seems so outrageous to you that you assume I'm just trying to stir
up some hostility for the fun of it. I'll take a photo tomorrow and put
it on my website with my other stuff. For my freshwater, here's a page.

http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/...f/Aquaria.html

Ruth Kazez

I think he meant the Troll in Pixar or from the Pond "Toad" (or was that a
bullfrog?) that I saw. BTW, VERY nice pond / plant (FW tank) you have there.

CapFusion,...