Lighting ... or Correct Me if I am Wrong

I have been looking at the compact fluorescent lighting available
(e.g.,from all-glass: www.all-glass.com) to replace my current
standard fluorescent setup.

Now correct me if I am wrong, but it looks to me that if you have a
48" tank, for example, and you have two 55 Watt compact fluorescent
bulbs -- one on each side of the divider -- then the combined wattage
(110 wattage) is not really what the plants are getting. Instead, it
seems, that each side of the tank will receive approximately 55 watts
+ some small additional wattage indirectly from the other side of the
tank.

This seems to be less than my current setup where I have two 48" 40
watt bulbs. Here both lights are on each side of the tank and, given
an even distribution of 40 watts eminating from the bulbs, each side
would receive a total of 80 watts; arguably higher than the compact
light alternative.

Is this scenario incorrect in some way or does it make sense ?

Homie wrote:
I have been looking at the compact fluorescent lighting available
(e.g.,from all-glass: www.all-glass.com) to replace my current
standard fluorescent setup.

Now correct me if I am wrong, but it looks to me that if you have a
48" tank, for example, and you have two 55 Watt compact fluorescent
bulbs -- one on each side of the divider -- then the combined wattage
(110 wattage) is not really what the plants are getting. Instead, it
seems, that each side of the tank will receive approximately 55 watts
+ some small additional wattage indirectly from the other side of the
tank.

This seems to be less than my current setup where I have two 48" 40
watt bulbs. Here both lights are on each side of the tank and, given
an even distribution of 40 watts eminating from the bulbs, each side
would receive a total of 80 watts; arguably higher than the compact
light alternative.

Is this scenario incorrect in some way or does it make sense ?

The below is assuming that you're 2 x 40 look something like
http://www.all-glass.com/products/ho...intube_img.gif (or two
single strip 40 watt bulbs).

I think you may be looking at the 40 Watts bulbs wrong. The way I see
it is that a 40 watt bulb is 40 watts over the entire thing so the left
has 20 watts and the right has 20 watts. So basically with two bulbs,
the left and right halves are getting only 40 watts each. This new
compact light will increase it to 55 per each side. (And if you want to
get all technical, I think that you lose even more light with your two
40s since, again, I'm assuming here, that your 55G tank has a divider in
the middle which is removing that width of light from the bulbs.
Assuming that the divider is 2 inches wide, it's 4% of your 48 inch
bulb. 4% of 40 watts is 1.6 watts x 2 bulbs = 3.2 watts lost because of
the divider. So in theory, you lost a couple of watts on the divider
alone on a 48 inch strip light.)

Rambling helps with boredom at work! :-)
-Ben

On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 13:55:00 -0500, Ben wrote:

Homie wrote:
I have been looking at the compact fluorescent lighting available
(e.g.,from all-glass: www.all-glass.com) to replace my current
standard fluorescent setup.

Now correct me if I am wrong, but it looks to me that if you have a
48" tank, for example, and you have two 55 Watt compact fluorescent
bulbs -- one on each side of the divider -- then the combined wattage
(110 wattage) is not really what the plants are getting. Instead, it
seems, that each side of the tank will receive approximately 55 watts
+ some small additional wattage indirectly from the other side of the
tank.

This seems to be less than my current setup where I have two 48" 40
watt bulbs. Here both lights are on each side of the tank and, given
an even distribution of 40 watts eminating from the bulbs, each side
would receive a total of 80 watts; arguably higher than the compact
light alternative.

Is this scenario incorrect in some way or does it make sense ?

The below is assuming that you're 2 x 40 look something like
http://www.all-glass.com/products/ho...intube_img.gif (or two
single strip 40 watt bulbs).

I think you may be looking at the 40 Watts bulbs wrong. The way I see
it is that a 40 watt bulb is 40 watts over the entire thing so the left
has 20 watts and the right has 20 watts. So basically with two bulbs,
the left and right halves are getting only 40 watts each. This new
compact light will increase it to 55 per each side. (And if you want to
get all technical, I think that you lose even more light with your two
40s since, again, I'm assuming here, that your 55G tank has a divider in
the middle which is removing that width of light from the bulbs.
Assuming that the divider is 2 inches wide, it's 4% of your 48 inch
bulb. 4% of 40 watts is 1.6 watts x 2 bulbs = 3.2 watts lost because of
the divider. So in theory, you lost a couple of watts on the divider
alone on a 48 inch strip light.)

Rambling helps with boredom at work! :-)
-Ben


I think another thing to consider is the intensity of the lights.
compact lights are double tubes, so i'd assume this means each light
is giving out double the intensity..

remember, watts are only a guidline, intensity in lumens is what you
really have to consider.

btw, i have a 36" setup with 2 bulbs in it.. i have been running it
for over a year with very good results.

On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 20:05:35 GMT, "stir-fry"
wrote:

On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 13:55:00 -0500, Ben wrote:

Homie wrote:
I have been looking at the compact fluorescent lighting available
(e.g.,from all-glass: www.all-glass.com) to replace my current
standard fluorescent setup.

Now correct me if I am wrong, but it looks to me that if you have a
48" tank, for example, and you have two 55 Watt compact fluorescent
bulbs -- one on each side of the divider -- then the combined wattage
(110 wattage) is not really what the plants are getting. Instead, it
seems, that each side of the tank will receive approximately 55 watts
+ some small additional wattage indirectly from the other side of the
tank.

This seems to be less than my current setup where I have two 48" 40
watt bulbs. Here both lights are on each side of the tank and, given
an even distribution of 40 watts eminating from the bulbs, each side
would receive a total of 80 watts; arguably higher than the compact
light alternative.

Is this scenario incorrect in some way or does it make sense ?

The below is assuming that you're 2 x 40 look something like
http://www.all-glass.com/products/ho...intube_img.gif (or two
single strip 40 watt bulbs).

I think you may be looking at the 40 Watts bulbs wrong. The way I see
it is that a 40 watt bulb is 40 watts over the entire thing so the left
has 20 watts and the right has 20 watts. So basically with two bulbs,
the left and right halves are getting only 40 watts each. This new
compact light will increase it to 55 per each side. (And if you want to
get all technical, I think that you lose even more light with your two
40s since, again, I'm assuming here, that your 55G tank has a divider in
the middle which is removing that width of light from the bulbs.
Assuming that the divider is 2 inches wide, it's 4% of your 48 inch
bulb. 4% of 40 watts is 1.6 watts x 2 bulbs = 3.2 watts lost because of
the divider. So in theory, you lost a couple of watts on the divider
alone on a 48 inch strip light.)

Rambling helps with boredom at work! :-)
-Ben


I think another thing to consider is the intensity of the lights.
compact lights are double tubes, so i'd assume this means each light
is giving out double the intensity..

remember, watts are only a guidline, intensity in lumens is what you
really have to consider.

btw, i have a 36" setup with 2 bulbs in it.. i have been running it
for over a year with very good results.


This is, of course speculation on my behalf.
I don't know lumens and watts from the hole in my ass.

just my opinion

Here, let me confuse things a little in an effort to make my point
clear:

AHSupply and other vendors sell reflectors that claim to increase the
light that hits the water by up to 196%.

Also T5 type bulbs are advertised as up to 400% brighter than regular
fluorescents.

Now, if you get a 55 watt bulb with a Miro reflector does that mean
that you actually have 55 + (55 * 196%) = 55 + 107 = 163 watts?

And is a skinny T5 tube that is 54 watt actually 54 + (54 * 400%) = 54
+ 220 = 274 watts?

Also - a 10,000 Kelvin Coralife VHO appears totally white to the eye
while a 10,000 Kelvin URI VHO appears violet-pink.

Well, I suppose at this point most folk are confused.

The point that I try to make is "use what works for you".
Calculations are exactly that - just calculations and nothing else.
:-D

--Nikolay

(seeOtwo) wrote in message . com...
Here, let me confuse things a little in an effort to make my point
clear:

AHSupply and other vendors sell reflectors that claim to increase the
light that hits the water by up to 196%.

Also T5 type bulbs are advertised as up to 400% brighter than regular
fluorescents.

Now, if you get a 55 watt bulb with a Miro reflector does that mean
that you actually have 55 + (55 * 196%) = 55 + 107 = 163 watts?

And is a skinny T5 tube that is 54 watt actually 54 + (54 * 400%) = 54
+ 220 = 274 watts?

Also - a 10,000 Kelvin Coralife VHO appears totally white to the eye
while a 10,000 Kelvin URI VHO appears violet-pink.

Well, I suppose at this point most folk are confused.

The point that I try to make is "use what works for you".
Calculations are exactly that - just calculations and nothing else.
:-D

--Nikolay


Good points
I see all sorts of figures and such but you have to question some of
the supposed benefits of certain light/Kelvin temps etc.

I think in answer the the question, the PC lighting is about 2x as
bright as the 80w set up. Bulbs last longer, you'll get more watt per
$ of electric.

Regards,
Tom Barr

(Homie) wrote in news:59266412.0401271034.2ab85444
@posting.google.com:

Comments in line:

I have been looking at the compact fluorescent lighting available
(e.g.,from all-glass: www.all-glass.com) to replace my current
standard fluorescent setup.

Now correct me if I am wrong, but it looks to me that if you have a
48" tank, for example, and you have two 55 Watt compact fluorescent
bulbs -- one on each side of the divider -- then the combined wattage
(110 wattage) is not really what the plants are getting. Instead, it
seems, that each side of the tank will receive approximately 55 watts
+ some small additional wattage indirectly from the other side of the
tank.
You have a total of 80 watts of fluor light on your entire tank.

This seems to be less than my current setup where I have two 48" 40
watt bulbs. Here both lights are on each side of the tank and, given
an even distribution of 40 watts eminating from the bulbs, each side
would receive a total of 80 watts; arguably higher than the compact
light alternative.
This would give you a total of 110 watts for the entire tank.
I run a 70 gal with four 55watt compact fluors on it. Two on each side
of the tank as it where. Two switches, so I can start with one lamp on
each side, then as the day progresses I turn on the other two lamps.
Three kinds of swords, three types of crypts, val, sag,hygro, java fern,
water sprite and not sure of what else right now. No CO2, but at least
once a week I have to trim plants down/out enough to fill a good sized
salad bowl!.m

Is this scenario incorrect in some way or does it make sense ?

In message , magus kent
writes
I run a 70 gal with four 55watt compact fluors on it. Two on each side
of the tank as it where. Two switches, so I can start with one lamp on
each side, then as the day progresses I turn on the other two lamps.
Three kinds of swords, three types of crypts, val, sag,hygro, java
fern, water sprite and not sure of what else right now. No CO2, but at
least once a week I have to trim plants down/out enough to fill a good
sized salad bowl!.m

Care to share more details ? Without CO2, how do you get good growth
without an algae explosion ? That's some high lighting there.

Please fill in the other details. Anything you can think of. Ta. Any
pics available ?

--
Alan Silver
PSG Fish Tanks - http://fish.alansilver.co.uk/

Alan Silver wrote in news:3DHGlmGJz
:

In message , magus kent
writes
I run a 70 gal with four 55watt compact fluors on it. Two on each side
of the tank as it where. Two switches, so I can start with one lamp on
each side, then as the day progresses I turn on the other two lamps.
Three kinds of swords, three types of crypts, val, sag,hygro, java
fern, water sprite and not sure of what else right now. No CO2, but at
least once a week I have to trim plants down/out enough to fill a good
sized salad bowl!.m

Care to share more details ? Without CO2, how do you get good growth
without an algae explosion ? That's some high lighting there.

Please fill in the other details. Anything you can think of. Ta. Any
pics available ?

Nothing fancy..just a lot of plants using up the available nutrients.
With a limited supply of nutrients available, the higher plants get as
much as they can use, and the algae gets whats left. Tank has a
collection of smaller fish such as tetras and corydoras. Only two larger
fish are two doradid cats that have been in there probably for twelve
years. Fed once a day (and not much then) flakefood and shrimp pellets
for the doradids. Weekly twenty percent water change. Fluval 303
cannister filter gets cleaned about once a month. The sag and val go to
the surface and then curl around which ends up blocking a fair amount of
the light too. Also use a dose of Flora Pride twice a month, laterite in
the gravel, chunk-form, primarily near the swords. I haven't checked
PH/nitrates/nitrites/ammonia/whatever in five years. I used to use a
shoplight with two Triton lamps but that was expensive after awhile. I
need to have my LFS order me a couple of Otocinclus to get what little
algae there is. Two bulbs on from about nine AM to one PM, then all four
bulbs on till about eleven PM. The 'secret' is to start a tank with a
lot of plants, adding nutrients until the fish add enough themselves,
adjusting light duration until everything gets going. Works for me, and
has been that way since I started the hobby in the sixties. Back then it
was hard to get enough wattage on a tank but with the power compacts its
a piece of cake!...m

I run a 70 gal with four 55watt compact fluors on it. Two on each side
of the tank as it where. Two switches, so I can start with one lamp on
each side, then as the day progresses I turn on the other two lamps.
Three kinds of swords, three types of crypts, val, sag,hygro, java
fern, water sprite and not sure of what else right now. No CO2, but at
least once a week I have to trim plants down/out enough to fill a good
sized salad bowl!.m

Care to share more details ? Without CO2, how do you get good growth
without an algae explosion ? That's some high lighting there.

Please fill in the other details. Anything you can think of. Ta. Any
pics available ?

Nothing fancy..just a lot of plants using up the available nutrients.
snip
The sag and val go to
the surface and then curl around which ends up blocking a fair amount of
the light too.

Yup, been there. I used to have a bunch of val that propagated and grew
so much that it filled up about one third of my tank. I ripped out most
of them in the end.

Also use a dose of Flora Pride twice a month,

That's interesting. The bottle gives a far higher dosage rate than that.
How much do you add ? Do you do any other fertilisation ?

snip

Thanx for the info. I'm just working out how best to revive my tank
after some months of neglect and poor growth (see the thread "How do I
rescue my planted tank ?" in this group) and am looking for ideas. I
would like as low maintenance as possible (not due to lack of interest,
more due to lack of time).

Ta ra

--
Alan Silver
PSG Fish Tanks - http://fish.alansilver.co.uk/