Salt for Nitrite?

I read somewhere that the Chloride in Salt competes with Nitrite
to be absorbed by the fish's gills. Having salt effectively creates an
insurance
buffer against a potential Nitrite problem.

Does that mean that breaking in a new tank/filer setup, it might be wise to
add salt?
I wonder if the salt slows down or hurts the biobugs?

....Kodiak

Kodiak wrote:

I read somewhere that the Chloride in Salt competes with Nitrite
to be absorbed by the fish's gills. Having salt effectively creates an
insurance
buffer against a potential Nitrite problem.

That is correct, try a google on salt and brown blood or salt and
nitrite poisoning.

Does that mean that breaking in a new tank/filer setup, it might be
wise to add salt?

Yup.

I wonder if the salt slows down or hurts the biobugs?

Haven't had a problem with it in the indicated concentrations (pretty
low).

-D
--
"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving
that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the
proof." -Galbraith's Law

Kodiak,

You are correct, partially, in your statement. The chloride only protects
against the nitrite poisoning of the blood if the chloride levels are 10 to
1 over the nitrite levels. That is to say, if your nitrite is .2ppm in your
tank your chloride level in the water must be 2ppm. Just putting salt in
your tank is not going to protect your fish unless you maintain this ratio.
This also means that if the nitrite level increases so must the chloride
rate according to the ratio if you want to maintain the protection.

This idea of adding salt is not a magic pill of adding some salt to protect
against nitrite poisoning. It is something that has to monitored all the
time and responded to if the nitrite gets higher.

This techniques is usually practiced by catfish farmers, who usually
maintain a 50 - 100ppm in their acre size ponds.

To answer your other question, no, putting salt in your new tank is not a
good idea as the salt retards the establishment of the biobugs in your tank
making it to take longer to gain a cycled tank. In addition, salt makes it
harder for the water to hold oxygen, depending on the water temperature. It
could reduce your ppm of oxygen by .5ppm. Oxygen is paramount in
establishing a cycled tank. On the average a long cycling for me is
typically about 2 weeks to obtain a fully cycled tank. The other thing you
have to remember that the warmer the water the less oxygen is being held by
the water.

HTH

Tom L.L.



"Kodiak" wrote in message
.. .
I read somewhere that the Chloride in Salt competes with Nitrite
to be absorbed by the fish's gills. Having salt effectively creates an
insurance
buffer against a potential Nitrite problem.

Does that mean that breaking in a new tank/filer setup, it might be wise
to
add salt?
I wonder if the salt slows down or hurts the biobugs?

...Kodiak

Wow Tom,
Thanks for the post. my nitrite levels are peaking, very hard to
control. Doing lots of water changes,
the ppm levels of nitrite can hit as high as 3.0ppm peaks. Salt levels are
at 0.2% which is about 2000ppm
far above ten times 3ppm. so i guess I have enough salt but now i think i
have too much. You saying salt impedes
cyclying, what is safe salt level when cycling?

Noted your comment about oxygenation, Have a big airstone with an elite 803
pump blasting away. I guess the more
air when Nitrite levels spike, the better it is for the fish to breath
right? I imagine when things get dangerous, my fish
will be gasping for air at the surface or is it too late?

PS : I'm using Biozyme to help cycle, but it dosen't seem to be working.
Temp is 68degF.
....Kodiak


"Tom La Bron" wrote in message
...
Kodiak,

You are correct, partially, in your statement. The chloride only protects
against the nitrite poisoning of the blood if the chloride levels are 10
to
1 over the nitrite levels. That is to say, if your nitrite is .2ppm in
your
tank your chloride level in the water must be 2ppm. Just putting salt in
your tank is not going to protect your fish unless you maintain this
ratio.
This also means that if the nitrite level increases so must the chloride
rate according to the ratio if you want to maintain the protection.

This idea of adding salt is not a magic pill of adding some salt to
protect
against nitrite poisoning. It is something that has to monitored all the
time and responded to if the nitrite gets higher.

This techniques is usually practiced by catfish farmers, who usually
maintain a 50 - 100ppm in their acre size ponds.

To answer your other question, no, putting salt in your new tank is not a
good idea as the salt retards the establishment of the biobugs in your
tank
making it to take longer to gain a cycled tank. In addition, salt makes
it
harder for the water to hold oxygen, depending on the water temperature.
It
could reduce your ppm of oxygen by .5ppm. Oxygen is paramount in
establishing a cycled tank. On the average a long cycling for me is
typically about 2 weeks to obtain a fully cycled tank. The other thing
you
have to remember that the warmer the water the less oxygen is being held
by
the water.

HTH

Tom L.L.



"Kodiak" wrote in message
.. .
I read somewhere that the Chloride in Salt competes with Nitrite
to be absorbed by the fish's gills. Having salt effectively creates an
insurance
buffer against a potential Nitrite problem.

Does that mean that breaking in a new tank/filer setup, it might be wise
to
add salt?
I wonder if the salt slows down or hurts the biobugs?

...Kodiak

BioSpira is one of the few commercial biobugs that work. people reported back to the
list when they tried it.
first. high salt levels can slow cycling, but not 0.1%, in fact they do better with
"minerals" in the water. biobugs also like it warmer than you got it. they peak
closer to 75-80oF. and I have noticed they get cranky if I dont plug my heater back
in after water changes.
high nitrites lead to nitric acid and a falling pH in the water, this kills the
biobugs and definitely puts the cycle back to square one. gotta use water changes to
keep it down to barely detectable. how many fish in how much water?
air is very good. Ingrid

"Kodiak" wrote:
Salt levels are
at 0.2% which is about 2000ppm
far above ten times 3ppm. so i guess I have enough salt but now i think i
have too much. You saying salt impedes
cyclying, what is safe salt level when cycling?

Noted your comment about oxygenation, Have a big airstone with an elite 803
pump blasting away. I guess the more
air when Nitrite levels spike, the better it is for the fish to breath
right? I imagine when things get dangerous, my fish
will be gasping for air at the surface or is it too late?

PS : I'm using Biozyme to help cycle, but it dosen't seem to be working.
Temp is 68degF.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Hi Ingrid,
Is BioSpira a relatively expensive product (vs. Biozyme?)

I did a 50% water change yesterday, first I heated the water
to 70degF, put a Stone in it with another 803 pump, let it bubble
6-8hours with recommended dose of dechlorinator (1capful for
every 5gallons). Then i changed out 50% of the water in the Qtine
tank 55gallons, one 9" common goldfish. And I didn't add salt I
figure I'm at around 0.1% now (also as you recommended in a
previous post 0.2% is a bit high).

Also As you recommend I'm gonna crank up the temp from 68 to 75
to speed up the bugs. PH is at 7.5 so I think we're ok in that dept.

How do you notice that your biobugs get cranky? (that is so funny)
or did you mean the fish get cranky for lack of good biobugs?

I put him in that tank because he had developped sores, the sores
don't seem to be getting better, but they don't seem to be getting worst.
I'm sure he has flukes or something cause I've caught him flashing
and scrapeing once in a while. But I'm afraid to do the salt/peroxide
dip before the Qtine vat gets cycled, otherwise way too much stress for
poor Bubba.

....Kodiak


wrote in message
...
BioSpira is one of the few commercial biobugs that work. people reported
back to the
list when they tried it.
first. high salt levels can slow cycling, but not 0.1%, in fact they do
better with
"minerals" in the water. biobugs also like it warmer than you got it.
they peak
closer to 75-80oF. and I have noticed they get cranky if I dont plug my
heater back
in after water changes.
high nitrites lead to nitric acid and a falling pH in the water, this
kills the
biobugs and definitely puts the cycle back to square one. gotta use water
changes to
keep it down to barely detectable. how many fish in how much water?
air is very good. Ingrid

"Kodiak" wrote:
Salt levels are
at 0.2% which is about 2000ppm
far above ten times 3ppm. so i guess I have enough salt but now i think i
have too much. You saying salt impedes
cyclying, what is safe salt level when cycling?

Noted your comment about oxygenation, Have a big airstone with an elite
803
pump blasting away. I guess the more
air when Nitrite levels spike, the better it is for the fish to breath
right? I imagine when things get dangerous, my fish
will be gasping for air at the surface or is it too late?

PS : I'm using Biozyme to help cycle, but it dosen't seem to be working.
Temp is 68degF.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Is BioSpira a relatively expensive product (vs. Biozyme?)

Biospira costs about $20 for 3 ounces. One ounce treats 30 gallons.

"Kodiak" wrote:

Hi Ingrid,
Is BioSpira a relatively expensive product (vs. Biozyme?)
.............. yes, w/in last year or so

How do you notice that your biobugs get cranky? (that is so funny)
or did you mean the fish get cranky for lack of good biobugs?
..... no, the water went cloudy meaning the biobugs were leaving the filter. within
12 hours after plugging the heater back in the water was clear.

I put him in that tank because he had developped sores, the sores
don't seem to be getting better, but they don't seem to be getting worst.
I'm sure he has flukes or something cause I've caught him flashing
and scrapeing once in a while. But I'm afraid to do the salt/peroxide
dip before the Qtine vat gets cycled, otherwise way too much stress for
poor Bubba.
.... doing the peroxide dip is not stressful compared to the flukes or ??? sores heal
in about 24 hours in clean water when there arent parasites .. so you are right, they
are keeping the sore open and festering. you do the dip outside of the tank, so the
tank biobugs arent affected. Ingrid


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

yeah, the stuff is expensive, but at least it works. now fritzyme has something that
also works. dont remember the name of it tho. Ingrid

(MartinOsirus) wrote:

Is BioSpira a relatively expensive product (vs. Biozyme?)

Biospira costs about $20 for 3 ounces. One ounce treats 30 gallons.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.