Various Symptoms

Given the right conditions a goldfish can often make a miraculous recovery
even when they look in a really bad state so don't give up on him yet.
From what you've said I really think that your problem stems from poor
water quality. It sounds as if the fish are in severely cramped conditions
(each goldfish should have a minimum of 10 gallons of water each to stay
happy and healthy), and in conditions such as these the water quickly
becomes polluted, literally poisoning the fish. In an adequately sized tank,
because of the volume of water this doesn't happen as long as regular
partial water changes are carried out.
In a tank the size of yours it would be impossible to keep the water
quality perfect, but to try to improve things for the fish, start doing 50%
water changes (with temperature matched, dechlorinated water) daily in the
original tank and the bowl the sick fish is in. This will dilute any toxins
in the water. Buy yourself a gravel vacuum too (not very expensive) and
vacuum the gravel throughly each time you do a water change as this will
improve your water quality. If you try to get the water quality as perfect
as you can your fish will be much better prepared to fight their ailments.
Test for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates as suggested before as this will let
you know how your water quality really is. Ammonia should always be at 0,
nitrite at 0 and nitrate below 20. Anything above this isn't safe for the
fish.
I'd also add some salt (aquarium salt) to both tanks as this will make
things easier for the fish and help aid healing and stop infection. Adding
medications at the moment probably isn't a good idea as the water quality
should be your main concern and getting this right will probably improve
things no end anyway. Add the salt at a rate of 3 tablespoons per every 5
gallons of water and remember to replace the appropriate amount of salt with
each water change. So for example, if you remove and replace 5 gallons of
water, add another 3 tablespoons of salt. (Dissolve the salt in a little
tank water before adding).
If you don't have one already get a filter (a fluval one would be good) as
these really are a must with goldfish. You should aim to turn the volume of
your water over 8-10 times per hour)and add an airstone to add extra oxygen
too.
Mel.

"dan-tucker" wrote in message
...
Hi Mel, thanks for your reply.

I have had the fish for 2 years and nothing new has been introduced to
the
tank recently. The tank is round, 24cm in diameter and 17cm high. I
replace
the water with tap water that has been left out overnight, once every 10
to
14 days on average.

I do not own a test kit but will see if my local pet store will test
some
water for me, so I can post some results.

In your experience, if the problem can be diagnosed and treated, is a
fish
able to recover from the symptoms I described below? The tail is now
very
badly rotten although the breathing and balance problems do not appear
to
have worsened

Thanks
dan...

"Mel" wrote in message
...
How long have you had the fish and have you introduced anything new
to
the
tank at all? Also, what size is the tank and what is your maintenance
schedule with it?
The very first thing you should do is test for ammonia, nitrite, and
nitrates in the original tank and the bowl the fish is in now.
(Incidently
a
bowl is not a good environment for a goldfish especially when he/she
is
ill). If you don't have kits to test for this you can either buy them
which
is a good investement, or take a sample of your water to your lfs who
will
test it for you. Take a pen and paper and get the exact results and
write
them down, then post them here. Don't take what the employee says as
gospel
as their advise isn't always correct and they are more interested in
making
money than the welfare of the fish in most cases.
Mel.



"dan-tucker" wrote in message
...
Hi,

We own two goldfish and on Christmas Eve one of them seemed to
fall
ill
overnight. The head became swollen, the gills red inside, the
dorsal
fin
was
flat to the body and the tail was clamped. The fish has very
restricted
movement and often falls over onto it's side momentarily before
righting
itself again.

We immediately moved it to some fresh water in a separate bowl, to
which
there was a very slight improvement. We bought some swimbladder
treatment
which we have administered with some aquarium salt but this has
not
helped
in the slightest. Now the tail is rotting and appears very ragged.
The
fish
will still eat if food is held sufficiently close for it to take

Does anyone have any suggestions please as from looking at the
www.goldfishinfo.com diagnostic guide it appears to be showing
symptoms
of
Gill Flukes, Clamped Fins, Tail Rot and Swim Bladder problems. I'm
not
sure
whether I am able to effectively treat the fish in it's current
condition.

The other goldfish has been absolutely fine

Thanks in advance for any help received

dan...

On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:33:48 -0000, "Mel" wrote:


Given the right conditions a goldfish can often make a miraculous recovery
even when they look in a really bad state so don't give up on him yet.
From what you've said I really think that your problem stems from poor
water quality. It sounds as if the fish are in severely cramped conditions
(each goldfish should have a minimum of 10 gallons of water each to stay
happy and healthy), and in conditions such as these the water quickly
becomes polluted, literally poisoning the fish. In an adequately sized tank,
because of the volume of water this doesn't happen as long as regular
partial water changes are carried out.
In a tank the size of yours it would be impossible to keep the water
quality perfect, but to try to improve things for the fish, start doing 50%
water changes (with temperature matched, dechlorinated water) daily in the
original tank and the bowl the sick fish is in. This will dilute any toxins
in the water. Buy yourself a gravel vacuum too (not very expensive) and
vacuum the gravel throughly each time you do a water change as this will
improve your water quality. If you try to get the water quality as perfect
as you can your fish will be much better prepared to fight their ailments.
Test for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates as suggested before as this will let
you know how your water quality really is. Ammonia should always be at 0,
nitrite at 0 and nitrate below 20. Anything above this isn't safe for the
fish.
I'd also add some salt (aquarium salt) to both tanks as this will make
things easier for the fish and help aid healing and stop infection. Adding
medications at the moment probably isn't a good idea as the water quality
should be your main concern and getting this right will probably improve
things no end anyway. Add the salt at a rate of 3 tablespoons per every 5
gallons of water and remember to replace the appropriate amount of salt with
each water change. So for example, if you remove and replace 5 gallons of
water, add another 3 tablespoons of salt. (Dissolve the salt in a little
tank water before adding).
If you don't have one already get a filter (a fluval one would be good) as
these really are a must with goldfish. You should aim to turn the volume of
your water over 8-10 times per hour)and add an airstone to add extra oxygen
too.
Mel.

"dan-tucker" wrote in message
...
Hi Mel, thanks for your reply.

I have had the fish for 2 years and nothing new has been introduced to
the
tank recently. The tank is round, 24cm in diameter and 17cm high. I
replace
the water with tap water that has been left out overnight, once every 10
to
14 days on average.

I do not own a test kit but will see if my local pet store will test
some
water for me, so I can post some results.

In your experience, if the problem can be diagnosed and treated, is a
fish
able to recover from the symptoms I described below? The tail is now
very
badly rotten although the breathing and balance problems do not appear
to
have worsened

Thanks
dan...

"Mel" wrote in message
...
How long have you had the fish and have you introduced anything new
to
the
tank at all? Also, what size is the tank and what is your maintenance
schedule with it?
The very first thing you should do is test for ammonia, nitrite, and
nitrates in the original tank and the bowl the fish is in now.
(Incidently
a
bowl is not a good environment for a goldfish especially when he/she
is
ill). If you don't have kits to test for this you can either buy them
which
is a good investement, or take a sample of your water to your lfs who
will
test it for you. Take a pen and paper and get the exact results and
write
them down, then post them here. Don't take what the employee says as
gospel
as their advise isn't always correct and they are more interested in
making
money than the welfare of the fish in most cases.
Mel.



"dan-tucker" wrote in message
...
Hi,

We own two goldfish and on Christmas Eve one of them seemed to
fall
ill
overnight. The head became swollen, the gills red inside, the
dorsal
fin
was
flat to the body and the tail was clamped. The fish has very
restricted
movement and often falls over onto it's side momentarily before
righting
itself again.

We immediately moved it to some fresh water in a separate bowl, to
which
there was a very slight improvement. We bought some swimbladder
treatment
which we have administered with some aquarium salt but this has
not
helped
in the slightest. Now the tail is rotting and appears very ragged.
The
fish
will still eat if food is held sufficiently close for it to take

Does anyone have any suggestions please as from looking at the
www.goldfishinfo.com diagnostic guide it appears to be showing
symptoms
of
Gill Flukes, Clamped Fins, Tail Rot and Swim Bladder problems. I'm
not
sure
whether I am able to effectively treat the fish in it's current
condition.

The other goldfish has been absolutely fine

Thanks in advance for any help received

dan...









Azul

On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:33:48 -0000, "Mel" wrote:

Add the salt at a rate of 3 tablespoons per every 5
gallons of water and remember to replace the appropriate amount of salt with
each water change. So for example, if you remove and replace 5 gallons of
water, add another 3 tablespoons of salt. (Dissolve the salt in a little
tank water before adding).

Hi Mel,

I believe that is too much salt. Here is a quote from Ingrid's
Puregold site.

"A solution of one teaspoon per gallon is 0.132% salt. So 1 tablespoon
per 5 gallons is around 0.1%
A LOW concentration is up to 0.1%. This concentration will not hurt
most plants and is what is typically used in ponds and tanks. Addition
to fresh water is done over 3 days."

Hope this helps everyone.



Azul

3 tablespoons per 5 gallons is a 0.3% solution and I use it at this
strength if I ever have any problems with no bad affects on the fancy
goldies at all. As long as you add it gradually the bio-bugs never seem to
be affected, although it probably will kill plants. I remove mine to a
seperate bucket just in case. You can actually kill ich by using a salt
solution at this strength for 2 weeks with no ich meds at all. It also helps
a lot of other problems.
Mel.

"Azul" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:33:48 -0000, "Mel" wrote:

Add the salt at a rate of 3 tablespoons per every 5
gallons of water and remember to replace the appropriate amount of salt
with
each water change. So for example, if you remove and replace 5 gallons
of
water, add another 3 tablespoons of salt. (Dissolve the salt in a
little
tank water before adding).

Hi Mel,

I believe that is too much salt. Here is a quote from Ingrid's
Puregold site.

"A solution of one teaspoon per gallon is 0.132% salt. So 1 tablespoon
per 5 gallons is around 0.1%
A LOW concentration is up to 0.1%. This concentration will not hurt
most plants and is what is typically used in ponds and tanks. Addition
to fresh water is done over 3 days."

Hope this helps everyone.



Azul

anything greater than 0.1% should be used short term, 0.3% can cause tail shredding
and burns when used for longer than a couple days. It does work with ich, but I am
unconvinced it treats anything else. Ingrid

"Mel" wrote:
3 tablespoons per 5 gallons is a 0.3% solution and I use it at this
strength if I ever have any problems with no bad affects on the fancy
goldies at all. As long as you add it gradually the bio-bugs never seem to
be affected, although it probably will kill plants. I remove mine to a
seperate bucket just in case. You can actually kill ich by using a salt
solution at this strength for 2 weeks with no ich meds at all. It also helps
a lot of other problems.
Mel.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.