High Ph

yes, if he doesnt have much alkalinity (calcium) he needs to add some organic
dolomitic limestone to buffer the water. I have lake water with some calcium, but
not enough so I add dolomitic limestone to make sure I got good buffering.
good loam and pea gravel will not affect pH. ammonia can drive the pH up tho.
Ingrid

Charles wrote:
What time of day are you measuring pH?

Diana Walstad reports of a sof****er lake that changed from 5.7 in the
morning to 9.6 at noon. I
this is due to the plants drawing out the CO2 from the water.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Hal,
KH is less complicated and easy to fix as you state -
with baking soda. pH will level out at 8.4 with baking soda...
in fact, I've been told it is difficult to overdose the baking soda.
One thing in its use .... add about half a lb. mixed in pond
water every other day.

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"Hal" wrote in message
...
On 31 Mar 2004 14:14:16 -0800, (NewbieBill) wrote:

It appears to be bass ackwards. As far as I can tell from my narrow
range on the scale it was once again 8.8+ at 10 am and 7.8/8 at 3 pm.
Would water hardness (which I can't currently measure) make any sense
of this. I would guess our water is a little hard, but not sure.

There are two hardness measurements GH or general hardness is usually
a reading of calcium and magnesium. KH or carbonate hardness
measures the buffering agent in the water that keeps the pH from wild
swings.

Plants use sunlight and carbon dioxide to make food and release oxygen
during the day, but oxygen is used at night when the sun isn't shining
and carbon dioxide is released into the pond making carbonic acid,
which lowers the pH reading at night or early in the morning.

Before you use a pH down agent check the KH, or try baking soda first
if the pH is too high. Baking soda, sodium bicarbonate, is a great
pH buffer.

http://srac.tamu.edu/464fs.pdf
http://www.drhelm.com/aquarium/chemistry.html

Regards,

Hal

Hal,
KH is less complicated and easy to fix as you state -
with baking soda. pH will level out at 8.4 with baking soda...
in fact, I've been told it is difficult to overdose the baking soda.
One thing in its use .... add about half a lb. mixed in pond
water every other day.

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"Hal" wrote in message
...
On 31 Mar 2004 14:14:16 -0800, (NewbieBill) wrote:

It appears to be bass ackwards. As far as I can tell from my narrow
range on the scale it was once again 8.8+ at 10 am and 7.8/8 at 3 pm.
Would water hardness (which I can't currently measure) make any sense
of this. I would guess our water is a little hard, but not sure.

There are two hardness measurements GH or general hardness is usually
a reading of calcium and magnesium. KH or carbonate hardness
measures the buffering agent in the water that keeps the pH from wild
swings.

Plants use sunlight and carbon dioxide to make food and release oxygen
during the day, but oxygen is used at night when the sun isn't shining
and carbon dioxide is released into the pond making carbonic acid,
which lowers the pH reading at night or early in the morning.

Before you use a pH down agent check the KH, or try baking soda first
if the pH is too high. Baking soda, sodium bicarbonate, is a great
pH buffer.

http://srac.tamu.edu/464fs.pdf
http://www.drhelm.com/aquarium/chemistry.html

Regards,

Hal

Hi NewbieBill,

So far I've had to adjust my pH/KH every spring in my lilypond. I do this
after clean out before the frogs start spawning and I've removed all fish.
I think my post starts with Algae a few days back, regarding this.

Anyway, I agree, it is a balancing thing. Treat what's causing the rise by
adding muriatic acid, about 1 cup/1,000 gallons and let it sit for a few
days, if the pH comes back up add another cup, if not, add Baking soda to
bring the pH back up and put the buffer back in. (Remove any critters
before doing this.) Then monitor thereafter. ~ jan

See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

On 30 Mar 2004 20:36:49 -0800, (NewbieBill) wrote:

I will probably be posting regularly for a while untill not only my
pond is in balance but my understanding of it all I have been
bringing this pond back to life for the first time, for me. I am in
sunny Austin, Texas. I felt like I was making excellent progress with
the 'health' of my pond till the last 3 or 4 days. Since then I have
noticed String Algae developing (water is clear) and my ph rising
steadily. Ammonia, Nitrates are at 0, Nitrates minimal if any. Don't
have a hardness test. While I haven't been testing it very long I
felt like my ph WAS normally around 8/8.2, apparently about the norm
around here. Now I am getting readings at bottom of my chart which
only goes to 8.8 and I suspect my color is higher than that. I may
have done (at least) 2 things wrong. Most of my numerous plants and
lillies have only been there a few weeks. When I potted them I did
use a topsoil mix which had no vermiculite, fertilizer etc. but was
somewhat loamy, sandwiched top and bottom by pea gravel. Perhaps no
coincidence 2 days after building a little in-pond stack of river
rocks and Moss Boulder to create a simulated waterfall splash (from my
outflow pipe) I noticed my ph rising (also so did the temperatures and
sunlight). I have been using the same material to raise my pots. So
I guess this post I am soliciting advice as to a direction to attack
first. Most likely the rocks, soil or other things. My first 'bloom'
I really panicked and I don't want to repot all my plants, put them on
what and take away my waterfall, if this is just a balancing thing
that requires smaller adjustments. Thanxx - Bill

Hi NewbieBill,

So far I've had to adjust my pH/KH every spring in my lilypond. I do this
after clean out before the frogs start spawning and I've removed all fish.
I think my post starts with Algae a few days back, regarding this.

Anyway, I agree, it is a balancing thing. Treat what's causing the rise by
adding muriatic acid, about 1 cup/1,000 gallons and let it sit for a few
days, if the pH comes back up add another cup, if not, add Baking soda to
bring the pH back up and put the buffer back in. (Remove any critters
before doing this.) Then monitor thereafter. ~ jan

See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

On 30 Mar 2004 20:36:49 -0800, (NewbieBill) wrote:

I will probably be posting regularly for a while untill not only my
pond is in balance but my understanding of it all I have been
bringing this pond back to life for the first time, for me. I am in
sunny Austin, Texas. I felt like I was making excellent progress with
the 'health' of my pond till the last 3 or 4 days. Since then I have
noticed String Algae developing (water is clear) and my ph rising
steadily. Ammonia, Nitrates are at 0, Nitrates minimal if any. Don't
have a hardness test. While I haven't been testing it very long I
felt like my ph WAS normally around 8/8.2, apparently about the norm
around here. Now I am getting readings at bottom of my chart which
only goes to 8.8 and I suspect my color is higher than that. I may
have done (at least) 2 things wrong. Most of my numerous plants and
lillies have only been there a few weeks. When I potted them I did
use a topsoil mix which had no vermiculite, fertilizer etc. but was
somewhat loamy, sandwiched top and bottom by pea gravel. Perhaps no
coincidence 2 days after building a little in-pond stack of river
rocks and Moss Boulder to create a simulated waterfall splash (from my
outflow pipe) I noticed my ph rising (also so did the temperatures and
sunlight). I have been using the same material to raise my pots. So
I guess this post I am soliciting advice as to a direction to attack
first. Most likely the rocks, soil or other things. My first 'bloom'
I really panicked and I don't want to repot all my plants, put them on
what and take away my waterfall, if this is just a balancing thing
that requires smaller adjustments. Thanxx - Bill

On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 04:20:13 GMT, "Nedra"
wrote:

Hal,
KH is less complicated and easy to fix as you state -
with baking soda. pH will level out at 8.4 with baking soda...
in fact, I've been told it is difficult to overdose the baking soda.
One thing in its use .... add about half a lb. mixed in pond
water every other day.

Depending on the size of the pond. Can we compromise with Suggested
dose 1/3 pound per 1000 gallons? That will raise KH by 20 ppm. or
about 1 degree. You can continue that as many days as necessary to
get the pH stable.

Regards,

Hal

On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 04:20:13 GMT, "Nedra"
wrote:

Hal,
KH is less complicated and easy to fix as you state -
with baking soda. pH will level out at 8.4 with baking soda...
in fact, I've been told it is difficult to overdose the baking soda.
One thing in its use .... add about half a lb. mixed in pond
water every other day.

Depending on the size of the pond. Can we compromise with Suggested
dose 1/3 pound per 1000 gallons? That will raise KH by 20 ppm. or
about 1 degree. You can continue that as many days as necessary to
get the pH stable.

Regards,

Hal

On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 15:34:21 GMT, ~ jan JJsPond.us
wrote:

So far I've had to adjust my pH/KH every spring in my lilypond. I do this
after clean out before the frogs start spawning and I've removed all fish.
I think my post starts with Algae a few days back, regarding this.

Anyway, I agree, it is a balancing thing. Treat what's causing the rise by
adding muriatic acid, about 1 cup/1,000 gallons and let it sit for a few
days, if the pH comes back up add another cup, if not, add Baking soda to
bring the pH back up and put the buffer back in. (Remove any critters
before doing this.) Then monitor thereafter. ~ jan

You can do this with critters:
pH Down - -
Muriatic acid (31% HCl) a dose of approximately 2 fluid ounces per
1000 gallons per day until the pH is about 8.5. I would not lower the
pH below 8.5 without also testing KH (alkalinity). Acid directly
consumes KH. If KH is lowered below ~100 mg/l, pH will become
unstable, and the pH measurements become meaningless.

Regards,

Hal

On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 15:34:21 GMT, ~ jan JJsPond.us
wrote:

So far I've had to adjust my pH/KH every spring in my lilypond. I do this
after clean out before the frogs start spawning and I've removed all fish.
I think my post starts with Algae a few days back, regarding this.

Anyway, I agree, it is a balancing thing. Treat what's causing the rise by
adding muriatic acid, about 1 cup/1,000 gallons and let it sit for a few
days, if the pH comes back up add another cup, if not, add Baking soda to
bring the pH back up and put the buffer back in. (Remove any critters
before doing this.) Then monitor thereafter. ~ jan

You can do this with critters:
pH Down - -
Muriatic acid (31% HCl) a dose of approximately 2 fluid ounces per
1000 gallons per day until the pH is about 8.5. I would not lower the
pH below 8.5 without also testing KH (alkalinity). Acid directly
consumes KH. If KH is lowered below ~100 mg/l, pH will become
unstable, and the pH measurements become meaningless.

Regards,

Hal

Sure we can compromise, Hal... whatever works for you

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"Hal" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 04:20:13 GMT, "Nedra"
wrote:

Hal,
KH is less complicated and easy to fix as you state -
with baking soda. pH will level out at 8.4 with baking soda...
in fact, I've been told it is difficult to overdose the baking soda.
One thing in its use .... add about half a lb. mixed in pond
water every other day.

Depending on the size of the pond. Can we compromise with Suggested
dose 1/3 pound per 1000 gallons? That will raise KH by 20 ppm. or
about 1 degree. You can continue that as many days as necessary to
get the pH stable.

Regards,

Hal