Few odd Questions Any help appreciated (pond/water couorse building/sturgeon) (UK)

I would say that ponding is mostly science. as in we know what will kill koi and try
to avoid that. science tells us how to be very conservative when starting out.
what water parameters are needed for healthy fish.
how much water, depth etc. is needed for stable pond temperature and "buffer" for
when/if things go wrong. in the south the problem is heat, in the north it is ice.
aeration, filtration.. why it is needed, what it does.
quarantine and why that is important.
water and lots of it is the very most important component of keeping fish. if the
water can be kept pristine keeping fish is a snap (well unless there is a predator or
somebody dumps poison in or around the pond).
art is when people knowingly bend or break the rules and get away with it.
Ingrid


"Newbie Bill" wrote:
Also read "Pond keeping is not a science it is an art".
Ponding is not a formula. There are just too many variables which can
frequently change making each pond it's own little learning experience. You
will make mistakes - that's a given. Start slowly and your mistakes wont
cost you nearly as much in time, money and satisfaction. The bigger the
cushion to start the less the bruise in learning. Get to know your pond,
your filter, your fish, your unthought of problems. Quarantine all new fish
and plants before adding new problems to your pond. Don't start with
feeders. These things and more will help to keep new problems from becoming
a string of disasters. I say this having not done most of these things, but
I sure would do it differently if I had a second chance. Things will be
just so much more controlled and happy for everybody and everything. I
suspect there are some 'fast track' people who could also add their
disasters - but they're no longer ponders. Yes I think the 1000+ rule is
probably overstated.
I have already seen several EXPERIENCED ponders who have broken it. But if
you are soliciting advice and INEXPERIENCED this is probably a very good
rule. Start slowly and someday you will probably figure out how to 'break
the rules' safely in your own pond with your specific variables, or figured
out why you shouldnt. Or if you're like many in this group you'll have a
bigger pond and altogether different issues.

BTW - I dont know a thing about sturgeon. But my guess is, if they are
anything like comets you are on the way to your first three mistakes.
Filter not cylced, they got bugs, etc.

Bill Brister
Austin, Texas




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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endorsements or recommendations I make.

wrote in message
...
I would say that ponding is mostly science.
snip
I tend to agree. 1+1 often = 2 when it comes to ponding.

art is when people knowingly bend or break the rules and get away with it.
snip

Unfortunately this is as true as 1+1=2, especially for the porgs that I have
read here on rec.ponds. I think we ALL break the rules at some point, and
for the most part, many of us have gotten away with it.

BV.

Hi All - There is apparently some sub dynamic of this group that I am
totally unaware of. If someone would care to email me privately I would
appreciate it. I wrote a fairly lengthy (surprise, surprise) 'observation'
and have decided to delete it, because I really, really dont want to offend
anyone or act like I'm right you're wrong. So I will just make 2 quick
comments about this thread. 1) I do believe there is quite an art to
balancing the scientific generalities and facts into your specific pond
parameters. 2) I have rarely seen an instance where a desired result is as
simple as 1+1=2. It is most usually 4 or 5 variables, hoping you weighted
them correctly, hoping you included the correct variables and the closer to
2 the better, but they rarely add up to exactly 2.
Perhaps I should not be commenting at all but I just saw something in
this thread that I dont get. Maybe its something as simple as you vets not
being allowed to say "You pond newbies are just too stupid at first so we
are going to start you off really slowly". I resemble that remark.
Have Fun!
Bill Brister - Austin, Texas
"Benign Vanilla" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
I would say that ponding is mostly science.
snip
I tend to agree. 1+1 often = 2 when it comes to ponding.

art is when people knowingly bend or break the rules and get away with
it.
snip

Unfortunately this is as true as 1+1=2, especially for the porgs that I
have
read here on rec.ponds. I think we ALL break the rules at some point, and
for the most part, many of us have gotten away with it.

BV.

"Newbie Bill" wrote in message
...
Hi All - There is apparently some sub dynamic of this group that I am
totally unaware of.

Yeah, we're pretty close knit. rec.ponds is one of the few usenet groups
that is not plaqued with BS. Although, we have our moments.

If someone would care to email me privately I would
appreciate it. I wrote a fairly lengthy (surprise, surprise)
'observation'
and have decided to delete it, because I really, really dont want to
offend
anyone or act like I'm right you're wrong.

Where's the fun in that.

So I will just make 2 quick
comments about this thread. 1) I do believe there is quite an art to
balancing the scientific generalities and facts into your specific pond
parameters. 2) I have rarely seen an instance where a desired result is
as
simple as 1+1=2. It is most usually 4 or 5 variables, hoping you weighted
them correctly, hoping you included the correct variables and the closer
to
2 the better, but they rarely add up to exactly 2.

Which was my point. Sometimes 1+1=2 when you follow the rules. But we all
break them and usually end up getting 2, but not necissarily by adding 1 and
1.

Perhaps I should not be commenting at all but I just saw something in
this thread that I dont get. Maybe its something as simple as you vets
not
being allowed to say "You pond newbies are just too stupid at first so we
are going to start you off really slowly". I resemble that remark.
snip

Ponding is not an exact science, as evidenced by the fact that there are no
two ponds alike. No two sets of conditions. On rec.ponds, for the most part,
we offer anecdotal solutions to ponders problems. We are typically careful
not hand down knowledge as gospel, as we know that what works for 1 may not
work for another.

BV.

A lot of answers, and experience, depends on the pond.

I have a messy, wildlife type pond. My main goal is to see how many critters I
can attract and have been known to be thrilled to pieces over carnivorous
bladderwort and mayfly larvae.

Some folks have koi ponds. They actually know the names of the various types of
koi and can pronounce them. Koi have been called living jewels and they live up
to their names. Keeping koi is very exacting and watching your water parameters
is so important to keep them healthy and thriving.

Others are more plant oriented. They know the names of their lilies (unlike moi
who knows pink, white and yellow ;-) And they can actually grow
lotus (sigh, another goal I have yet to achieve).
And they can tell you the latin names of all the other pond plants. Keeping
plants healthy and thriving is a different operation too.

Some ponders combine all three. That's a juggling act! And combining all three
is again another specific set of skills.

Some of us like birds in our ponds,
others net the birds out. Some of us wish for
frogs, others buy earplugs. Some of us think snails are neat in the pond,
others prefer them with garlic and butter. Some of us drink beer by the pond,
others are coffee addicts
(raising hand).

We try to stay away from politics... and we usually succeed.
We sure would like you to hang out with us.
Besides we haven't explained PORG to you yet...


kathy :-)
A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/"Once upon a pond/A

"Ka30P" wrote

Snips to clarification points:

Some of us think snails are neat in the pond,
others prefer them with garlic and butter.

Um - both work for me. Although I'm not
sure I would eat pond or aquarium snails...

Some of us drink beer by the pond,
others are coffee addicts
(raising hand).

Raising both hands since I do both. g

Gail

Good Morning Group! Thanks so much for being gentle to the newbie
questioning the thread. I thought for sure someone was going to give me the
ol "Jane you ignorant slut." line (SNL) Lest there be any question I
think this group is just flat out terrific, both for the knowledge gap they
try to fill on a constant basis and the people in general. I am a goofball
but it pleases me to think in some very small way I am a part of it. Yes,
in trying to research specific subjects I have come upon several groups that
were just innundated with immature banter. Here the banter seems most often
to be whether you drop that WH into the pond with your left hand or right
and what temperature the beer in the other hand should be I have met
several local ponders and they have been good people. My pond is filled
almost exclusively with plants that they have thinned/divided. Several have
droped by to see 'my problem' first hand. But the local message board often
is not very helpful, because most of the 'pros' there often will not reply.
I think they dont want to end each message by saying 'this is what worked
for me, you may have to modify it somewhat for your pond' - or - 'I dont
know but my guess would be....' I probably was just overreacting to a
misinterpreted inference that if you do such and such you WILL get this
result. My experience has been rarely is there a clear cut, cant miss
solution. But there are some clear cut if you do such and such you will
kill your fish rules. It is frustrating because every time a fish dies I
feel VERY badly it was probably at the hands of my ignorance, and yet I am
trying so hard to do good.
You guys are great! Thank you, thank you, thank you.............
Isle b'bac
Bill Brister - Austin, Texas

ps Inquiring minds have wondered what this secret handshake porgies thing
is


"Ka30P" wrote in message
...

A lot of answers, and experience, depends on the pond.

I have a messy, wildlife type pond. My main goal is to see how many
critters I
can attract and have been known to be thrilled to pieces over carnivorous
bladderwort and mayfly larvae.

Some folks have koi ponds. They actually know the names of the various
types of
koi and can pronounce them. Koi have been called living jewels and they
live up
to their names. Keeping koi is very exacting and watching your water
parameters
is so important to keep them healthy and thriving.

Others are more plant oriented. They know the names of their lilies
(unlike moi
who knows pink, white and yellow ;-) And they can actually grow
lotus (sigh, another goal I have yet to achieve).
And they can tell you the latin names of all the other pond plants.
Keeping
plants healthy and thriving is a different operation too.

Some ponders combine all three. That's a juggling act! And combining all
three
is again another specific set of skills.

Some of us like birds in our ponds,
others net the birds out. Some of us wish for
frogs, others buy earplugs. Some of us think snails are neat in the pond,
others prefer them with garlic and butter. Some of us drink beer by the
pond,
others are coffee addicts
(raising hand).

We try to stay away from politics... and we usually succeed.
We sure would like you to hang out with us.
Besides we haven't explained PORG to you yet...


kathy :-)
A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/"Once upon a pond/A

Newbie Bill wrote ps Inquiring minds have wondered what this secret handshake
porgies thing
is

Ah, ;-) a chance to post the PORG dogma!


You are a PORG,
or more accurately, you have been porged.
Rec.ponders have been tasked to go out and
assimilate lawns into ponds. Resistance is futile.
(If you are a Star Trek, Next Generation fan
you'll recognize we unashamedly ripped off the
term Borg (the half machine, half human beings
who absorb any race they come across into the
Borg Collective) and assimilated it unto our own selves.)
Your mission, and you must accept it (remember
resistance is futile), is to go forth and assimilate
your friends' and neighbors' lawns into ponds.
This is the PORG motto, creed, agenda, dogma, rules of the road, law, platform
and way of life.
The secret handshake... the memo got lost with the German Shepherd sized
Bullfrog whose orgins are now lost in the mists of rec.ponds time.



kathy :-)
A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/"Once upon a pond/A

I *think* that the answer to the burning question "what (who?) exactly is
PORG, anyhoo?" may be found in the FAQ for this inestimable* newsgroup:
http://www.geocities.com/justinm090/faq.html

* It's a compliment!

Anne Lurie
Raleigh, NC

"Newbie Bill" wrote

[snipped]

ps Inquiring minds have wondered what this secret handshake porgies thing
is

Ka30P wrote:

Some of us like birds in our ponds,
others net the birds out. Some of us wish for
frogs, others buy earplugs. Some of us think snails are neat in the pond,
others prefer them with garlic and butter. Some of us drink beer by the pond,
others are coffee addicts
(raising hand).

Thank you Kathy. Well put. *smile* I'm in the "coffee by the pond,
absolutely thrilled with anything willing to take up residence, trying
to keep it as natural as an artificial pond can get crowd, thrilled to
find the birds drinking out of it, spent an hour on Saturday watching a
dragonfly emerge from it's larval state, and looking for some native
salamanders or newts I can purchase for my pond". Looking around, I
think I'm alone now and not the only one in her or his own group. *grin*

Susan
shsimko[@]duke[.]edu