we tried someting new

"Derek Broughton" wrote in message
...
snip
The old-timers here will remember that, at the time I started into
ponding,
sometime in the mid-90s, one of the hottest debates was over the use of
pond-safe EPDM and EPDM roofing liner. Firestone, the major manufacturer
of both, insisted that the roofing liner was not fish-safe, but many
people
used it without trouble. I know of one DIY study that claimed it killed
test fish, but I also know of dozens of respected ponders who never had a
problem.
snip

The key variable here is that in some areas, roofing liner can be treated
for fungus, mildew, etc. and those chemicals could be harmful to fish. My
EPDM was purchased from a pond store, and it says Firestone on it. So I
guess my area does not have these "mythical" chemicals.

BV.

Benign Vanilla wrote:


"Derek Broughton" wrote in message
...
snip
The old-timers here will remember that, at the time I started into
ponding,
sometime in the mid-90s, one of the hottest debates was over the use of
pond-safe EPDM and EPDM roofing liner. Firestone, the major manufacturer
of both, insisted that the roofing liner was not fish-safe, but many
people
used it without trouble. I know of one DIY study that claimed it killed
test fish, but I also know of dozens of respected ponders who never had a
problem.
snip

The key variable here is that in some areas, roofing liner can be treated
for fungus, mildew, etc. and those chemicals could be harmful to fish. My
EPDM was purchased from a pond store, and it says Firestone on it. So I
guess my area does not have these "mythical" chemicals.

That was part of the discussion, but while a number of _roofers_ claimed it
was treated with fungicides, nobody connected with Firestone ever said
that. So, yes, they seem to be mythical. But I still wouldn't risk a
hundred dollar koi in a pond made with roofing liner. The stuff you got
was almost certainly pond-grade, though. Firestone does sell pond-grade
epdm, and it doesn't come from the same supply as roofing-grade epdm - but
whether there's any chemical difference, nobody really knows.
--
derek

Firestone said themselves there is a difference in the "curing "process -
ergo not fish safe - this was posted a while back on this group - if you
want I will see if I can find the letter and repost it if you can't find it
and yes I know many people have used roofing epdm without a problem
Gale :~)

"Derek Broughton" wrote in message
...
Benign Vanilla wrote:


"Derek Broughton" wrote in message
...
snip
The old-timers here will remember that, at the time I started into
ponding,
sometime in the mid-90s, one of the hottest debates was over the use of
pond-safe EPDM and EPDM roofing liner. Firestone, the major
manufacturer
of both, insisted that the roofing liner was not fish-safe, but many
people
used it without trouble. I know of one DIY study that claimed it
killed
test fish, but I also know of dozens of respected ponders who never had
a
problem.
snip

The key variable here is that in some areas, roofing liner can be
treated
for fungus, mildew, etc. and those chemicals could be harmful to fish.
My
EPDM was purchased from a pond store, and it says Firestone on it. So I
guess my area does not have these "mythical" chemicals.

That was part of the discussion, but while a number of _roofers_ claimed
it
was treated with fungicides, nobody connected with Firestone ever said
that. So, yes, they seem to be mythical. But I still wouldn't risk a
hundred dollar koi in a pond made with roofing liner. The stuff you got
was almost certainly pond-grade, though. Firestone does sell pond-grade
epdm, and it doesn't come from the same supply as roofing-grade epdm - but
whether there's any chemical difference, nobody really knows.
--
derek

I remember someone else saying they witnessed rolls of Firestone epdm coming
from the same source and seeing some of it stamped, or labelled as being
pond-grade and the rest of it marked for roofing only.
"Gale Pearce" wrote in message
...
Firestone said themselves there is a difference in the "curing "process -
ergo not fish safe - this was posted a while back on this group - if you
want I will see if I can find the letter and repost it if you can't find
it
and yes I know many people have used roofing epdm without a problem
Gale :~)

"Derek Broughton" wrote in message
...
Benign Vanilla wrote:


"Derek Broughton" wrote in message
...
snip
The old-timers here will remember that, at the time I started into
ponding,
sometime in the mid-90s, one of the hottest debates was over the use
of
pond-safe EPDM and EPDM roofing liner. Firestone, the major
manufacturer
of both, insisted that the roofing liner was not fish-safe, but many
people
used it without trouble. I know of one DIY study that claimed it
killed
test fish, but I also know of dozens of respected ponders who never
had
a
problem.
snip

The key variable here is that in some areas, roofing liner can be
treated
for fungus, mildew, etc. and those chemicals could be harmful to fish.
My
EPDM was purchased from a pond store, and it says Firestone on it. So
I
guess my area does not have these "mythical" chemicals.

That was part of the discussion, but while a number of _roofers_ claimed
it
was treated with fungicides, nobody connected with Firestone ever said
that. So, yes, they seem to be mythical. But I still wouldn't risk a
hundred dollar koi in a pond made with roofing liner. The stuff you got
was almost certainly pond-grade, though. Firestone does sell pond-grade
epdm, and it doesn't come from the same supply as roofing-grade epdm -
but
whether there's any chemical difference, nobody really knows.
--
derek

the whole debate "evolved"... first there was the anti-fungus, then anti-bacterial,
then anti-algae, then curing. the fact is there has been no difference in the health
of fish in ponds made from roofing vs pond liner.
the number of people new to ponds who overstocked, didnt watch ammonia levels or made
other serious mistakes were evenly divided between ponds made of roof vs pond safe
epdm.
Ingrid


"Gale Pearce" wrote:
Firestone said themselves there is a difference in the "curing "process -
ergo not fish safe - this was posted a while back on this group - if you
want I will see if I can find the letter and repost it if you can't find it
and yes I know many people have used roofing epdm without a problem
Gale :~)


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Just from a manufacturers standpoint the way they do things today is
that its probably the same product that is just packaged and marketed
a different way. Most manuf. today have virtually eliminated multiple
production lines to make similar products and have cut down to one
line that will handle all of the cut lines as well. Then packaging and
marketing is conducted topuch this one item out the door into the
market place and cover all the eliminated products as well. Just like
motor oil, The Tech2000 stuff is actually made by Penzoil, and is
Penzoil, thats just bottled in Wal Mart brand bottles labeld Tech2000
oil.........multitudes of products are handled this way. One product,
multiple labels. Saves manufacturing costs and inventory for the
makers and they can cover a more diverse field of applications and
keep the consumer in the dark with skepticism and uncertainty. Its
what makes the world go around and profits up!

If it worked in years past without any known problems why worry about
it now. Afterall if they can get 30 cents a foot for roofing stuff,
and know darn full well they can;'t get 50 cents a foot for it in the
roofing commnumity, but know with a different label on the same
identical product they can get the 50 cents a foot from ponders,
would you not also capitolize on that market area for the sake of a
different label and not have to run additonal production lines and
inventory? Yep, you sure would, its called being market / manuf. /
business savy!
Bottom line is we will never really know unless a Quality Control or
Firestone chemist defects from Firestone and lets the cat out of the
bag!



On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 13:14:35 GMT, wrote:

===the whole debate "evolved"... first there was the anti-fungus, then anti-bacterial,
===then anti-algae, then curing. the fact is there has been no difference in the health
===of fish in ponds made from roofing vs pond liner.
===the number of people new to ponds who overstocked, didnt watch ammonia levels or made
===other serious mistakes were evenly divided between ponds made of roof vs pond safe
===epdm.
===Ingrid
===
===
==="Gale Pearce" wrote:
===Firestone said themselves there is a difference in the "curing "process -
===ergo not fish safe - this was posted a while back on this group - if you
===want I will see if I can find the letter and repost it if you can't find it
===and yes I know many people have used roofing epdm without a problem
=== Gale :~)
===
===
===~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~
===List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
===http://puregold.aquaria.net/
===www.drsolo.com
===Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
===~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~
===Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
===compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
===endorsements or recommendations I make.

Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com
Opinions expressed are those of my wife,
I had no input whatsoever.
Remove "nospam" from email addy.