Reverse undergravel filters in addition to HOB?

I currently have a little 10 gallon tank. Whenever I clean the gravel
it kicks up chemicals and evil gunk and sends my paramaters out of
whack... would a reverse UGF help with this by keeping things from
settling in the gravel? I really would like to keep the gravel. Would
a reverse UGF provide too much turbulence in a 10 gallon tank? Right
now I have a Top Fin 10 (Petsmart's cheap filter for 10 gallon tanks,
worst. filter. ever) and a bubble wall along the back.

Also, would adding a UGF help maintain my bio filter? one of the
biggest problems with the HOB I have now is that whenever you replace
the mechanical filter pad, it takes most of the biobugs with it. I
plan on picking up an aquaclear whenever I can afford it.

Thanks

"Kellbot" wrote in message
om...
I currently have a little 10 gallon tank. Whenever I clean the gravel
it kicks up chemicals and evil gunk and sends my paramaters out of
whack... would a reverse UGF help with this by keeping things from
settling in the gravel? I really would like to keep the gravel. Would
a reverse UGF provide too much turbulence in a 10 gallon tank? Right
now I have a Top Fin 10 (Petsmart's cheap filter for 10 gallon tanks,
worst. filter. ever) and a bubble wall along the back.

Also, would adding a UGF help maintain my bio filter? one of the
biggest problems with the HOB I have now is that whenever you replace
the mechanical filter pad, it takes most of the biobugs with it. I
plan on picking up an aquaclear whenever I can afford it.

Thanks

Some people swear by RUGF, but my experience has not been great with
Goldfish. I had a 55 that suffered a PH crash a few months ago. So I
buffered (coral) the water and slowly removed the gravel for a thorough
cleaning. This helped, but Nitrates were still a constant battle (no
plants). I finally tore down the tank about a month ago when it got moved to
the basement. There was a lot of black gunk under the plates. I suspect some
of this was algae or gravel coating (epoxy), but it did have a nasty smell
to it.

The new tank has just enough gravel to cover the bottom and no plates. I
left the RUGF in the old tank, as it will be mostly plants and a few
tropicals.

What are you using to clean your gravel BTW? I use a Python and all the
'evil gunk' gets sucked down the drain.

I have a siphon with a bell on the end. I can't use a python because I
don't have any sinks anywhere near my tank (I live in a ridiculously
long, strangely laid-out apartment). It takes away most of the evil
gunk, and anything leftover gets sucked up by the filter, but there's
still that ammonia spike, today it jumped up to .5 after I cleaned the
gravel.

Right now I'm debating between adding an UGF (reverse or non) which
would help with the ammonia trapped in the gravel as well as enhancing
my bio filter (since the HOB's biofilters are rather pathetic) or
switching over to an AquaClear, which has better media for biobugs.
I'm thinking maybe if my bug culture was better, the ammonia spike
wouldn't be a big deal.

Right now Bob the Oranda seems stressed because of it. He still gets
excited and tries to eat my hand whenever I open the tank lid, but
lately he's been spending more time chilling out in the corners behind
his miniature greek ruins, or just sort of poking around the main part
of the tank, rather than his usual jackrabbit-on-speed antics. I think
I'm going to cut back on feeding and start doing 30% daily changes
until he perks up.


"Bill Stock" wrote in message ...
"Kellbot" wrote in message
om...
I currently have a little 10 gallon tank. Whenever I clean the gravel
it kicks up chemicals and evil gunk and sends my paramaters out of
whack... would a reverse UGF help with this by keeping things from
settling in the gravel? I really would like to keep the gravel. Would
a reverse UGF provide too much turbulence in a 10 gallon tank? Right
now I have a Top Fin 10 (Petsmart's cheap filter for 10 gallon tanks,
worst. filter. ever) and a bubble wall along the back.

Also, would adding a UGF help maintain my bio filter? one of the
biggest problems with the HOB I have now is that whenever you replace
the mechanical filter pad, it takes most of the biobugs with it. I
plan on picking up an aquaclear whenever I can afford it.

Thanks

Some people swear by RUGF, but my experience has not been great with
Goldfish. I had a 55 that suffered a PH crash a few months ago. So I
buffered (coral) the water and slowly removed the gravel for a thorough
cleaning. This helped, but Nitrates were still a constant battle (no
plants). I finally tore down the tank about a month ago when it got moved to
the basement. There was a lot of black gunk under the plates. I suspect some
of this was algae or gravel coating (epoxy), but it did have a nasty smell
to it.

The new tank has just enough gravel to cover the bottom and no plates. I
left the RUGF in the old tank, as it will be mostly plants and a few
tropicals.

What are you using to clean your gravel BTW? I use a Python and all the
'evil gunk' gets sucked down the drain.

get rid of the gravel completely. see removing gravel
http://www.mu.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/...re1.htm#GRAVEL
get a whisper 3 for every 20 gallons.
use river rock. attach your siphon to a long hose, there are some hoses are very
light weight, clean once a week as before, but gunk is easy to clean around the river
rock just push the river rock out of the water.
persistently high nitrates are due to rotting organic material somewhere in the tank
system. it can ALSO be the filter needs to be rinsed out.
keeping nitrates at or below 20 ppm is a balancing act... balance between water
changes and feeding. higher quality, higher protein, lower filler food .. food with
some sort of fish, shrimp or krill in the first couple ingredients and fish type oils
(most of these good foods need to be kept in the freezer or the oils go rancid).
these kind of foods leave less crap behind that fouls the tank. with higher quality
foods much, much less can be fed and the fish keep growing. for a 6 inch fish 3-4
flakes of aquadine twice a day is all that is needed. fish got short intestines so
large dollops of food go in and come out mostly without being digested.

you are correct to do daily water changes. Add 1 teaspoon of salt per 5 gallons.
Use rock salt with no additives. this will perk him up as well. Ingrid


(Kellbot) wrote:
Right now Bob the Oranda seems stressed because of it. He still gets
excited and tries to eat my hand whenever I open the tank lid, but
lately he's been spending more time chilling out in the corners behind
his miniature greek ruins, or just sort of poking around the main part
of the tank, rather than his usual jackrabbit-on-speed antics. I think
I'm going to cut back on feeding and start doing 30% daily changes
until he perks up.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Hi Ingrid,

Do you line the entire bottom of the tank with river rock? If not, do you
leave the bottom of the tank bare? I would imagine that it wouldn't look
very good to have a bare bottom?


wrote in message
...
get rid of the gravel completely. see removing gravel
http://www.mu.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/...re1.htm#GRAVEL
get a whisper 3 for every 20 gallons.
use river rock. attach your siphon to a long hose, there are some hoses
are very
light weight, clean once a week as before, but gunk is easy to clean
around the river
rock just push the river rock out of the water.
persistently high nitrates are due to rotting organic material somewhere
in the tank
system. it can ALSO be the filter needs to be rinsed out.
keeping nitrates at or below 20 ppm is a balancing act... balance between
water
changes and feeding. higher quality, higher protein, lower filler food ..
food with
some sort of fish, shrimp or krill in the first couple ingredients and
fish type oils
(most of these good foods need to be kept in the freezer or the oils go
rancid).
these kind of foods leave less crap behind that fouls the tank. with
higher quality
foods much, much less can be fed and the fish keep growing. for a 6 inch
fish 3-4
flakes of aquadine twice a day is all that is needed. fish got short
intestines so
large dollops of food go in and come out mostly without being digested.

you are correct to do daily water changes. Add 1 teaspoon of salt per 5
gallons.
Use rock salt with no additives. this will perk him up as well. Ingrid


(Kellbot) wrote:
Right now Bob the Oranda seems stressed because of it. He still gets
excited and tries to eat my hand whenever I open the tank lid, but
lately he's been spending more time chilling out in the corners behind
his miniature greek ruins, or just sort of poking around the main part
of the tank, rather than his usual jackrabbit-on-speed antics. I think
I'm going to cut back on feeding and start doing 30% daily changes
until he perks up.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

wrote:
get a whisper (#3) for every 20 gallons. ... duh.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

actually, I kept em totally bare.
http://www.mu.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/care/plants.html
plants in itty pots are as fancy as I have got.... but yes, you can line the entire
bottom with those big flat river rocks.. the ones about the size of your hands.
it looks like mirror to have a BBT. gradually algae grows on it and the whole thing
looks very under water. I used to have to use dolomitic limestone in my tanks (water
softener) and then it would pile up in drifts looking like a beach.
it is funny, but it is easy to get used to just seeing the GF moving around in the
tanks. wonderful really. and soooo easy to take care off. Ingrid

"Brian Steele" wrote:

Hi Ingrid,

Do you line the entire bottom of the tank with river rock? If not, do you
leave the bottom of the tank bare? I would imagine that it wouldn't look
very good to have a bare bottom?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.