Black Slime Algae

wrote:

See blackout method, this will help your plants and take less time, is
certainly the cheapest method and the easiest, fastest etc.

I've read lots of comments that the blackout approach has little or no
effect on cyanobacteria, since they aren't dependent on light like
conventional algae.

Thiose comments are patently incorrect. Nothing personal, but they
are.
It's that simple.

Anyone that does what I suggest(not their own modified version) on BGA
will agree. BGA are(the species we deal with), as are all
algae/plants, totally dependent on light.

Lots of comments that Blackout does not work?
Name one that has done the method I suggested in honesty, and it has
not worked?
Even one?

I've never read one yet. I do get many folks saying it did work on
BGA.
"Thanks! It's 100% Clear and clean! yada yada........."

Everytime.

Some one will say BBA and blackouts don't work, yea, I agree. But it's
100% effective on BGA which is the only real use for this method.

My question to you is have you tried it?
If you do, then you'll know.

I believe my root causes are that I overfeed (which I'm correcting) and
that the tank is now so overrun with BGA that moderately drastic
measures are needed to bring it under control.

It's not due to over feeding.

I've already started treating with Myacin. If the five day cycle
doesn't have any effect, I'll give your instructions a whirl.

Antibiotics do work, my point is not that Myacin does or does not
work, I just offers a better method that takes 3 days and is 100% free
and addresses the long term problem that you have.

Anyone can do it.
You can solve your BGa with that, or Blackout, but anyone that claims
the 3 day blackout I suggest does not work is frankly full of crap.

I've helped countless folks cure their algal issues for the last
decade. Check the APD, APC and other forums.
See this month's TAG, ask around.

Regards,
Tom Barr

wrote:

Thiose comments are patently incorrect. Nothing personal, but they
are. It's that simple.

I appreciate your strong opinion, but I find equally strong opinions in
the other direction. The Krib has discussions on the subject, and I
found numerous mentions via Google as well.


BGA are(the species we deal with), as are all algae/plants, totally
dependent on light.

BGA are not plants, they are bacteria. Though photosynthesis is the
preferred mode of nutrition, it is not the only method. (Palinska,
Katarzyna A; Horgan, William J and Krumbein, Wolfgang, E (May 2002)
Cyanobacteria. In: Nature Encyclopedia of Life Sciences. London: Nature
Publishing Group.)


Antibiotics do work, my point is not that Myacin does or does not
work, I just offers a better method that takes 3 days and is 100%
free and addresses the long term problem that you have.

Well, the ehtromycin is effectively free, since I already had it on
hand. My supply expires in a few months, so it's not as though I'm
likely to lose use of it by employing it against BGA.


Lots of comments that Blackout does not work?
Name one that has done the method I suggested in honesty, and it has
not worked? Even one?
anyone that claims the 3 day blackout I suggest does not work is
frankly full of crap.

Ok, thanks, but I'm REALLY not interested in a holy war. You've clearly
got a lot of emotional investment in the subject, and I'm afraid I
really don't care enough to get into a protracted discussion over it.



--
Eric Schreiber
www.ericschreiber.com

"Eric Schreiber" eric at ericschreiber dot com wrote in message
news:Ur-dnT5Q_8XQYhrcRVn-

I appreciate your strong opinion, but I find equally strong opinions in
the other direction. The Krib has discussions on the subject, and I
found numerous mentions via Google as well.

How old is that info on the Krib, and how qualified were those ppl making
the statements?



BGA are not plants, they are bacteria. Though photosynthesis is the
preferred mode of nutrition, it is not the only method. (Palinska,
Katarzyna A; Horgan, William J and Krumbein, Wolfgang, E (May 2002)
Cyanobacteria. In: Nature Encyclopedia of Life Sciences. London: Nature
Publishing Group.

The bacteria have a symbiotic relationship with the photosynthesising
systems, if one shuts down, gradually they will die, they cannot function
properly without each other.



Ok, thanks, but I'm REALLY not interested in a holy war. You've clearly
got a lot of emotional investment in the subject, and I'm afraid I
really don't care enough to get into a protracted discussion over it.


Oh Come on Eric, I think its my turn this time to tell you to get a thicker
skin. Tom is offering you perfectly fine advice and you're throwing it back
in his face, he offered to help you out and then you get defensive!!! Use
those antibiotics of yours and I'll bet in 30 days time it'll be back again,
really, I've been through this myself. You also run the risk of openeing up
your fish to parasites who will be keen on taking advantage of the fish's
weakened immune system, antiB's will affect the fish's slime coat and
possibly nuke your filter. Be careful. Be sure to let us know how it goes.
--
**So long, and thanks for all the thick skin!**

Happy'Cam'per wrote:

How old is that info on the Krib, and how qualified were those ppl
making the statements?

Beats me. How qualified is Tom? Again, beats me.


Oh Come on Eric, I think its my turn this time to tell you to get a
thicker skin.

My skin is plenty thick - I'm not in the *least* bit offended or upset
by anything Tom said. I'm simply not interested in pumping a lot of
noise into the newsgroup over something I'm not emotionally invested in.


Tom is offering you perfectly fine advice and you're throwing it back
in his face, he offered to help you out and then you
get defensive!

On the contrary, I've already affirmed that if the antibiotics don't
work out, I will be trying the method he suggested.


--
Eric Schreiber
www.ericschreiber.com

"Eric Schreiber" eric at ericschreiber dot com wrote in message
...
wrote:

Thiose comments are patently incorrect. Nothing personal, but they
are. It's that simple.

I appreciate your strong opinion, but I find equally strong opinions in
the other direction. The Krib has discussions on the subject, and I
found numerous mentions via Google as well.





yup, I have seen numerous posters saying the same thing in various plant
forums and also in this newsgroup as I have been lurking. Blackout had no
affects at all. But some people just can't seem to believe that just
because something seemed to work for them does not mean it is written in
stone and works all the time.

--

Margolis
http://web.archive.org/web/200302152...qs/AGQ2FAQ.htm
http://www.unrealtower.org/faq

"Margolis" wrote in message
...
"Eric Schreiber" eric at ericschreiber dot com wrote in message
yup, I have seen numerous posters saying the same thing in various plant
forums and also in this newsgroup as I have been lurking. Blackout had no
affects at all. But some people just can't seem to believe that just
because something seemed to work for them does not mean it is written in
stone and works all the time.


Tom suggested 'a process to follow'. Surely that cannot be that difficult to
comprehend. Follow the instructions to the tee and I bet my ass it will cure
your BGA problem. It's worked for dozens if not hundreds of folks. Follow
the directions!!!!!!
--
**So long, and thanks for all the fish!**

"Happy'Cam'per" wrote in message
...


Tom suggested 'a process to follow'. Surely that cannot be that difficult
to
comprehend. Follow the instructions to the tee and I bet my ass it will
cure
your BGA problem. It's worked for dozens if not hundreds of folks. Follow
the directions!!!!!!
--
**So long, and thanks for all the fish!**



I'm not saying that if you follow his specific instructions step by step
that it won't help at all, but there is never any guarantee. But this
arguing was about blackout specifically, not all of the additional steps
that Tom lined out. It was just his comment that implied that anybody who
said blackout didn't work were lying, and then his suggestion that nobody
ever said that it didn't work that got to me and I think is what also got to
Eric. That sounded like classic denial and like he was calling Eric a liar
for saying that others have said it didn't work for them. Tom has
definately helped a lot of people here, but the tone at the beginning of
that last post just struck the wrong chord. I didn't really mean to offend
anybody, even though I usually end up doing that anyway.

--

Margolis
http://web.archive.org/web/200302152...qs/AGQ2FAQ.htm
http://www.unrealtower.org/faq

Margolis wrote:

yup, I have seen numerous posters saying the same thing in various
plant forums and also in this newsgroup as I have been lurking.
Blackout had no affects at all. But some people just can't seem to
believe that just because something seemed to work for them does not
mean it is written in stone and works all the time.

I suspect that part of the problem is the many kinds of cyanobacteria
that exist. Happy Camper alluded to "The type of Cyano that infects OUR
fish tanks", and I have no doubt that he's right for a particular
common species. I don't think it's at all a stretch, though, to
consider that there might be other species with different nutrient
needs affecting fresh water aquaria.


--
Eric Schreiber
www.ericschreiber.com

BGA are(the species we deal with), as are all algae/plants, totally
dependent on light.

BGA are not plants, they are bacteria. Though photosynthesis is the
preferred mode of nutrition, it is not the only method. (Palinska,
Katarzyna A; Horgan, William J and Krumbein, Wolfgang, E (May 2002)
Cyanobacteria. In: Nature Encyclopedia of Life Sciences. London: Nature
Publishing Group.)

The species that infest our tanks is specifically Oscillitoria
splendens.
If you can show me a reference that says this species of BGA is able
to survive without light(or the genus), I'm all ears.

I specifically qualified my statement above as well(the species we
deal with).
There are a few plants and even a few species of algae that are
parasitic(some don't even have any chloroplast)on other
organisms(therefore indirectly dependent on light), but none that grow
in our tanks, and that is what we are discussing, not eveything on the
planet.

Antibiotics do work, my point is not that Myacin does or does not
work, I just offers a better method that takes 3 days and is 100%
free and addresses the long term problem that you have.

Well, the ehtromycin is effectively free, since I already had it on
hand. My supply expires in a few months, so it's not as though I'm
likely to lose use of it by employing it against BGA.

Nope, so go for it. When you get another species algae, you cannot use
EM against, then what? You kill one and do not correct the problem,
another will come in. While the killing part can be done both ways,
the fixing it so it does not come back part is another matter that is
never discussed in advice with EM.
Not everyone has EM sitting around, not everyone can get EM. Everyone
can use a blackout. KNO3 is needed to help the plants grow, EM methods
never suggest this.

Ok, thanks, but I'm REALLY not interested in a holy war. You've clearly
got a lot of emotional investment in the subject, and I'm afraid I
really don't care enough to get into a protracted discussion over it.

The proof is in the pudding, you try it, then you'll know.
I know EM works. I know Blackout works and I'm the only person that's
suggested an effective method of prevention and culture of BGA.
There's no arguement or issue, the experiment is repeatable with both
methods if you try it.
You have not tried this but you wanted to suggest otherwise based on
acendotal support rather than practical controlled methodology. The
Krib and the other folks did not do that. I know they did not becuase
they would have found the same thing. I've done this 20 or more times
again and again. It's not just for phycologist either, any aquarist
can repeat the same things I've done and support that type of
investigation. But if you have not done that, then it seems odd. But
I wanted to know, so now I do so I can and do speak with confidence
about the issue.

You are new to weeds/plants/algae, I've very old hat(30+ years now)
and work on weeds professionally and did my Master's on algae and
BGA's in FW.

I'm not asking for you to believe me really, only to try it and see
for yourself that it works, or if not, why it didn't.
I totally understand your views and that you just want to fix the
problem and move on as well. I was new once also and had lots of
opposing views. I got ****ed off and figure it out for myself.

Now I've figured out many things that have really helped a lot of
folks grow plants better because of this.

If you want to suggest my experimenting on BGA is flawed, incorrect, I
overlooked something or questionable etc without supporting your
contention, you will get flack, it's nothing personal at you, it's
about the issue of the blackout and BGA. I truly welcome critical
review and questions.

If your only goal is to kill algae, you'll keep having more algae in
the future.
Just a different species.

The focus should be on the plants, EM methods never address that, just
a method to kill BGA. Focus on the plant's needs and you will have far
less algae/BGa issues in the future. Specifically KNO3 dosing for EM.

Don't worry, I ain't this crotchety in person

Regards,
Tom Barr

wrote:

Nope, so go for it. When you get another species algae, you cannot use
EM against, then what? You kill one and do not correct the problem,
another will come in.

You're making an unfounded assumption about my plans. Perhaps not an
unreasonable one, but I assure you I don't plan to just continuously
treat with EM.


You have not tried this but you wanted to suggest otherwise based on
acendotal support rather than practical controlled methodology.

Forgive me, but from where I'm sitting (e.g. some random guy reading
Usenet comments from some other random guy) all suggestions are
anecdotal. Even yours, since I don't know you from Adam. While I
suppose Usenet might be considered 'peer reviewed', I think you'll
agree that it lacks scientific rigor.


What I would suggest to you is that you put together a detailed
document describing your method step by step, its benefits (and
drawbacks, if any), and the methodology you used to arrive at it. Then
put it on a web site so that people will have a better opportunity to
review and understand it. If you don't have a site of your own, I'd be
happy to put it up on mine, though it would be far better off on one of
the 'major players' sites, like Netmax's or Chucks.


I'm not asking for you to believe me really, only to try it and see
for yourself that it works, or if not, why it didn't.

As I mentioned before, I intend to try your approach should the
anti-bacterial method fail.


If you want to suggest my experimenting on BGA is flawed, incorrect, I
overlooked something or questionable etc without supporting your
contention, you will get flack

I don't have a lab at my disposal, so like many hobbyists I rely on
internet research for things to try. A Google search turned up lots of
people stating that blackout doesn't work, that's all. No mention of
your method (which goes well beyond simple blackout) was made or
implied.


The focus should be on the plants, EM methods never address that, just
a method to kill BGA. Focus on the plant's needs and you will have far
less algae/BGa issues in the future. Specifically KNO3 dosing for EM.

Question - you've mention 'the plants' several times. You are referring
to higher plants, not algae, correct? As in 'planted tank'? If so, I
think I mentioned that the tank where I have this problem is not
planted (except that I tossed in some Najas in an attempt to rob the
BGA of nutrients). Any specific suggestions for long-term prevention of
BGA in a non-planted tank?


Don't worry, I ain't this crotchety in person

Most of us aren't. Oddly, I'm told that I am. Years of practice.

--
Eric Schreiber
www.ericschreiber.com