SW/Damsel questions

"David/Karen Garza" wrote in message
nk.net...
| The test kits I have are as follows:
|
|
| I'm guessing I need a new alkalinity test kit as mine
| doesn't give any actual numerical reading, just low to high.
|
| Karen
|

Sounds like you're on track. Small water changes should be fine, and
yes, the AP alk test is near to worthless IMO. As far as the stressed
damsel, I've seen nothing in your posts to allow me to point and say
"That's what's causing it." He might have been a "marked fish" so to
speak, something may have been wrong with him before you got him
home. I also have seen a couple sources that say the black velvet
damsels aren't as hardy as some of the others, say the blues and
yellowtails.

David/Karen Garza wrote:
Billy wrote:
"John D. Maag" wrote in message
. com...
| Karen,
|
| Your Ammonia and Nitrites should be zero. Do an immediate
water
change .

No, they should not. During the cycle, ammonia, nitrite, and
nitrate
will all register in varying amounts, dependant on the stage. Also,
I

No, really, they should be zero. Meaning the cycle isn't complete until
they are zero. If you have fish in a tank that is still cycling, they
will suffer from the normal spiking of ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate.

Karen, because you're using this 20g as a sort of "sandbox" to learn
the in's and out's of sal****er, might I make some suggestions to help
when you decide to dive in with your 75g?

Take your time. Don't cycle with fish - you will have some or all of
them die. Ammonia is toxic to fish - ill effects should be expected.

I think the best recipe for a stable and healthy sal****er tanks goes
as follows (with variations based on preferences/philosophies):

Get as big a tank as you feel you can manage. 75G+ is good. 20g is
fickle.
Use RO/DI water right from the start with a good salt mix (nearly all
are good).
Add about 1-2 lbs of low density live rock (branches and shelves vs.
boulders) (cured rock = faster cycle, uncured = slower cycle).
Add a 4+inch sand bed of good coral sand with grains ranging from 1mm
to 3mm*.
Hook up a good protein skimmer (most on the market will do the job, but
do your research).
Make sure there's a good amount flow in the tank (opinions conflict -
my rule of thumb is that 5x Tank Volume per hour is enough, and you can
never have too much)
Keep salinity and temperature steady (75-80).
Check ammonia every day. It will rise slowly, spike, then fall away
quickly. When it's 0, start checking Nitrites everyday and expect a
spike as well. When Nitrite is 0, it's safe to start slowly adding
fish. Waiting until Nitrates are zero won't hurt, but even thriving
reef tanks can sometimes show Nitrate.

* This is definitely controversial - I've always had good results with
this however.

Expect the cycle to take from a week up to a month or more. Expect
crazy algae blooms to come and go. Eventually the tank will balance
out.

Is this better than doing it the quick way by giving the bacteria
something to munch on? Can't say, but it's certainly less expensive,
and gives you time to really think about the processes going on in the
tank. If I've only learned one thing in this hobby, it's that going
slow is about the smartest thing anyone can do.
Michael Buffington
http://www.cubereef.com/

Took me a sec.. but 1-2 lb of live rock is 1-2 lb per tank gallon (do note
that because of your rock, sand, a 75 gallon tank will not hold 75 gallon,
but will take 75-150 lb of live rock). Good luck!

Tre'


"Michael Buffington" wrote in message
oups.com...

David/Karen Garza wrote:
Billy wrote:
"John D. Maag" wrote in message
. com...
| Karen,
|
| Your Ammonia and Nitrites should be zero. Do an immediate
water
change .

No, they should not. During the cycle, ammonia, nitrite, and
nitrate
will all register in varying amounts, dependant on the stage. Also,
I

No, really, they should be zero. Meaning the cycle isn't complete until
they are zero. If you have fish in a tank that is still cycling, they
will suffer from the normal spiking of ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate.

Karen, because you're using this 20g as a sort of "sandbox" to learn
the in's and out's of sal****er, might I make some suggestions to help
when you decide to dive in with your 75g?

Take your time. Don't cycle with fish - you will have some or all of
them die. Ammonia is toxic to fish - ill effects should be expected.

I think the best recipe for a stable and healthy sal****er tanks goes
as follows (with variations based on preferences/philosophies):

Get as big a tank as you feel you can manage. 75G+ is good. 20g is
fickle.
Use RO/DI water right from the start with a good salt mix (nearly all
are good).
Add about 1-2 lbs of low density live rock (branches and shelves vs.
boulders) (cured rock = faster cycle, uncured = slower cycle).
Add a 4+inch sand bed of good coral sand with grains ranging from 1mm
to 3mm*.
Hook up a good protein skimmer (most on the market will do the job, but
do your research).
Make sure there's a good amount flow in the tank (opinions conflict -
my rule of thumb is that 5x Tank Volume per hour is enough, and you can
never have too much)
Keep salinity and temperature steady (75-80).
Check ammonia every day. It will rise slowly, spike, then fall away
quickly. When it's 0, start checking Nitrites everyday and expect a
spike as well. When Nitrite is 0, it's safe to start slowly adding
fish. Waiting until Nitrates are zero won't hurt, but even thriving
reef tanks can sometimes show Nitrate.

* This is definitely controversial - I've always had good results with
this however.

Expect the cycle to take from a week up to a month or more. Expect
crazy algae blooms to come and go. Eventually the tank will balance
out.

Is this better than doing it the quick way by giving the bacteria
something to munch on? Can't say, but it's certainly less expensive,
and gives you time to really think about the processes going on in the
tank. If I've only learned one thing in this hobby, it's that going
slow is about the smartest thing anyone can do.
Michael Buffington
http://www.cubereef.com/

Michael Buffington wrote:

No, really, they should be zero. Meaning the cycle isn't complete until
they are zero. If you have fish in a tank that is still cycling, they
will suffer from the normal spiking of ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate.

Karen, because you're using this 20g as a sort of "sandbox" to learn
the in's and out's of sal****er, might I make some suggestions to help
when you decide to dive in with your 75g?

Take your time. Don't cycle with fish - you will have some or all of
them die. Ammonia is toxic to fish - ill effects should be expected.

I think the best recipe for a stable and healthy sal****er tanks goes
as follows (with variations based on preferences/philosophies):

Get as big a tank as you feel you can manage. 75G+ is good. 20g is
fickle.
Use RO/DI water right from the start with a good salt mix (nearly all
are good).
Add about 1-2 lbs of low density live rock (branches and shelves vs.
boulders) (cured rock = faster cycle, uncured = slower cycle).
Add a 4+inch sand bed of good coral sand with grains ranging from 1mm
to 3mm*.
Hook up a good protein skimmer (most on the market will do the job, but
do your research).
Make sure there's a good amount flow in the tank (opinions conflict -
my rule of thumb is that 5x Tank Volume per hour is enough, and you can
never have too much)
Keep salinity and temperature steady (75-80).
Check ammonia every day. It will rise slowly, spike, then fall away
quickly. When it's 0, start checking Nitrites everyday and expect a
spike as well. When Nitrite is 0, it's safe to start slowly adding
fish. Waiting until Nitrates are zero won't hurt, but even thriving
reef tanks can sometimes show Nitrate.

* This is definitely controversial - I've always had good results with
this however.

Expect the cycle to take from a week up to a month or more. Expect
crazy algae blooms to come and go. Eventually the tank will balance
out.

Is this better than doing it the quick way by giving the bacteria
something to munch on? Can't say, but it's certainly less expensive,
and gives you time to really think about the processes going on in the
tank. If I've only learned one thing in this hobby, it's that going
slow is about the smartest thing anyone can do.
Michael Buffington
http://www.cubereef.com/

Thanks for all the info :-) I'm going to print out your post
and save it for when I start my 75 gallon tank.
I see that fishless cycling is a better way to go. I know
sal****er fish can be expensive and I don't want them to die
off during the cycling. I already lost both of my neon
velvet damsels. I still have three yellow tail damsels and
they seem to be oblivious to the cycling. I have been doing
water changes to keep the ammonia to a minimum, and I will
continue to do them until the ammonia is 0.
Thanks for your help

Karen

Thanks Tre'
150 pounds of rock is a lot of rock! I think I have about 70
pounds of sand in the 75 gallon (fresh water) tank right now.

Karen

Tre' Landrum wrote:

Took me a sec.. but 1-2 lb of live rock is 1-2 lb per tank gallon (do note
that because of your rock, sand, a 75 gallon tank will not hold 75 gallon,
but will take 75-150 lb of live rock). Good luck!

Tre'

Karen,

The amount of live rock depends on the kind of rock. For instance base
rock is not much good while Kaelini is better. In general shoot for 1.5
pounds per gallon. I have read that with Kaelini you can get away with 1 lb
per gallon., Most fish like the rock there anyway.


"David/Karen Garza" wrote in message
ink.net...
Thanks Tre'
150 pounds of rock is a lot of rock! I think I have about 70
pounds of sand in the 75 gallon (fresh water) tank right now.

Karen

Tre' Landrum wrote:

Took me a sec.. but 1-2 lb of live rock is 1-2 lb per tank gallon (do
note
that because of your rock, sand, a 75 gallon tank will not hold 75
gallon,
but will take 75-150 lb of live rock). Good luck!

Tre'