Sick fish

"JeanneD" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi - no, I don't really flush, that's just an expression. I had a fish
die on me last year and I placed him in the wastebasket, already dead.

Fish don't feel pain, correct? Due to the fact they don't have a
nervous system, only a reactive system? This is what I've heard and
read - they are luckier than we humans if you ask me.

Thanks for the freezer information, I hope it doesn't come to that.

This is a hotly contested topic. Do they feel pain? That depends on how you
define pain. They do have a nervous system, just not one similar to higher
mammals.


--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
Check out the IHMP forums, ihmp.net/phpbb
I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.

Benign Vanilla wrote:

This is a hotly contested topic. Do they feel pain? That depends on how you
define pain. They do have a nervous system, just not one similar to higher
mammals.


I agree with the above poster. I think fish do feel pain, I'm sure I read the
results of a
study where they monitored a fish (a while ago) and the fish was showing what
would
scientifically equate to stress or pain.

In article ,
Geezer From The Freezer wrote:

Benign Vanilla wrote:

This is a hotly contested topic. Do they feel pain? That depends on how you
define pain. They do have a nervous system, just not one similar to higher
mammals.


I agree with the above poster. I think fish do feel pain, I'm sure I read the
results of a
study where they monitored a fish (a while ago) and the fish was showing what
would
scientifically equate to stress or pain.

Well, I look at it this way...

They are a vertebrate. They have a brain, spinal cord and neural net
throughout their body... just like any mammal or reptile. The thing is,
a fish can't scream so how can we know it's in pain?

I once ran across a guy that had just caught some trout in a stream...
He was gutting them ALIVE! The poor fish was struggling and he was
having trouble.

So, I offered to help him, and showed him how to first kill the trout
the way my parents taught me to. A hard whack or three to the top of the
head, right behind the eyes where the brain is.

Showed him that gutting a dead fish that was not struggling in agony was
a lot easier. :-P

Then I asked him how HE would like to be gutted alive!

Honestly, why can't we have the same compassion for animals as for
humans??? sigh

As for freezing a fish, I think that would work as fish are exothermic.
As they get cold, they get sluggish. I think that would work ok for fish
but not for mammals. Personally, I'd whack them to kill them instantly.
Not easy, but effective. :-P

Just my 2 cents...
--
K.

Sprout the MungBean to reply

"I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell--you
see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain

They are a vertebrate. They have a brain, spinal cord and neural net
throughout their body... just like any mammal or reptile. The thing is,

a fish can't scream so how can we know it's in pain?

I guess I believe the scientists. They say no nervous system=no pain,
just a reactive system. I believe they feel pressure, the same way a
person can feel a doctor cut into them without pain when they've been
anesthetized first. But I'm open minded to both arguments and would
rather err on the side of caution.

If think I'd rather do the refridgerator thing than whack my little
black goldfish.

Jeanne

In article .com,
"JeanneD" wrote:

They are a vertebrate. They have a brain, spinal cord and neural net
throughout their body... just like any mammal or reptile. The thing is,

a fish can't scream so how can we know it's in pain?

I guess I believe the scientists. They say no nervous system=no pain,
just a reactive system. I believe they feel pressure, the same way a
person can feel a doctor cut into them without pain when they've been
anesthetized first. But I'm open minded to both arguments and would
rather err on the side of caution.

If think I'd rather do the refridgerator thing than whack my little
black goldfish.

Jeanne


Yes... I understand. ;-)

We've talked about euthansia and processing on different animal lists.
The most "interesting" conversations have been about how to mercifully
kill chickens and various other farm animals for processing.

I know it's very hard for most people to "whack" their animals even tho'
it's a very good and quick way to put them down, but it's nice to have
alternatives.

Too bad there is no "sleepy" chemical one can put in the water for fish?

I've taken zoology classes with some comparitive anatomy. AFAIK
modern/advanced bony fish (Osteichthyes) do have a fully functional
nervous system???????
--
K.

Sprout the MungBean to reply

"I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell‹you
see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain

for those squeamish about whacking their beloved pets, putting them in
an old sock sometimes helps.

I used to have to kill mice for my pet snake, and I couldn't bear to
look at their cute little furry bodies and then smash them But it's
much more humane than letting my snake squeeze them until they're
paralized and then swallow them while they're still alive.

altho i'm pretty sure even with a sock I couldn't do that to one of my
fish. I'd have to have one of my roomates do it, or go with the clove
oil method.

In article .com,
"Kellbot" wrote:

for those squeamish about whacking their beloved pets, putting them in
an old sock sometimes helps.

I used to have to kill mice for my pet snake, and I couldn't bear to
look at their cute little furry bodies and then smash them But it's
much more humane than letting my snake squeeze them until they're
paralized and then swallow them while they're still alive.

Not to mention the fact that killed mice are safer for the snake so they
don't bite the snake during constriction. :-) This comes up on the herp
list all the time.

You do know there are many websites to purchase fresh frozen mice?


altho i'm pretty sure even with a sock I couldn't do that to one of my
fish. I'd have to have one of my roomates do it, or go with the clove
oil method.

Clove oil???
Do tell? I've not seen anything about that.


--
K.

Sprout the MungBean to reply

"I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell‹you
see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain

"Katra" wrote in message
...
snip
Too bad there is no "sleepy" chemical one can put in the water for fish?
snip

There are, http://www.unmc.edu/Education/Animal/guide/appenG8.html.


--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
http://www.iheartmypond.com/Animals/Fish/
I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.

Ah,

The fish pain debate... I suppose it's been almost a year since this one
has rolled through...

-Donald
--
"One ought, every day at least, to hear a little song, read a good poem,
see a fine picture, and, if it were possible, to speak a few reasonable
words." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

In article ,
"Benign Vanilla" wrote:


"Katra" wrote in message
...
snip
Too bad there is no "sleepy" chemical one can put in the water for fish?
snip

There are, http://www.unmc.edu/Education/Animal/guide/appenG8.html.


--
BV

Great link!
Thank you!
--
K.

Sprout the MungBean to reply

"I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell‹you
see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain