Sick fish

Me too. I just had to "put down" a cory cat. He's been sick the past week
and I got home the other day he was on the bottom on his side. Here's how
*I* did it and he didn't "seem" to be in much if any pain based on his
movements or lack there of.

Small bowl with cold water from the tap. Placed fish gently in, he did not
freak out about it. Added one ice cube. Waited a few minutes, he stopped
breathing. Placed in freezer overnight. Fish ice cube. I felt bad but it
was for the best I guess. I think this is how I'll do them all in the
future unless I hear of another way that I feel might be better.

Tom




I just had to do this with a female Endler. I put her in a big plastic
cup. added an ice cude she was very still , then placed in a glad
freezer bag and in the frig. I really hate doing that. I used the cup so
i don't have to view the frozen fish and I can just discard it.

Kay

On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 22:36:13 -0800, Gunther wrote:

I I quote from http://www.fda.gov/cvm/guidance/guide150.pdf
"...neither clove oil nor any individual active ingredient of
clove oil (eugenol, isoeugenol, or methyleugenol) is approved
for use for the anesthesia of fish."

That's from the FDA/CVM -- Center for Veterinary Medicine.
The document mentioned earlier from UNMC also doesn't list
eugenol or clove oil.


Well, some vets still recommend all shots for dogs after 7 years when
the only shot they need after 7 is rabies. More and more vets are
agreeing with this.

"Benign Vanilla" wrote in message
...
Sorry, I was not clear. What I meant was the Heron, from what I have read,
can't get fish below 3'. I have seen video and read stories of them
standing
still for days, waiting for the fish to water depth ratio to come within a
strikeable depth. You are correct about that. They are very patient
eaters.
==============================
Yes they are! They will stand like a statue for hours. Fish are not overly
intelligent. If the bird doesn't move for awhile the fish will ignore it.
Running outside with 3 dogs and a broom screaming like a banshee didn't work
for long. These intelligent birds learned to get here before we even got up
in the morning. Then we started to see them at sundown when no one was out
in the yard.

Losing that beautiful yellow butterfly koi was the straw that broke the
camel's back. It was either net my ponds or forget fish.
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
Completely FREE softwa
http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In article ,
"Benign Vanilla" wrote:

"Katra" wrote in message
...
snip
I have a few bits and pieces of liner info here,
http://www.iheartmypond.com/design/liners/.

So you don't recommend the pre-formed pond liners at all?
snip

Aside from PVC, which is not UV tolerant, I think your liner choice is very
subjective. My main pond and VF are EPDM lined. I started to install a
second pond this past summer using a free rigid liner. I ended up bagging
the project. I found digging the hole to match the rigid liner was much
work.

Well, since I plan to put my pond directly under some trees, digging is
going to be pretty much out due to the root systems. I am planning a
mostly above ground pond and will wall it in with natural limestone,
mortared into place. :-) Was just wondering what the biodegradability
of rigid pond liners were!

Am beginning to think that the liner WOULD be better, so my size is not
so restricted.

About Filter systems...

I've seen some nice pre-made waterfalls set up with a filter system
inside of them, accessable from the back for ease of use and cleaning.

What do you think of that concept?
--
K.

Sprout the MungBean to reply

"I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell‹you
see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain

In article ,
"Benign Vanilla" wrote:


"Katra" wrote in message
...
snip
Since they are not in the same genus, would the offspring likely be
sterile? That happens when muscovie ducks and any standard barnyard duck
such as mallards, pekins and runners crossbreed...
snip

Yes. They will interbreed. I call the offspring Koinkey. Koi Donkeys. I
have one in my 55 gallon aquarium. We found and rescued him from the VF just
before it froze.

Is it common for them to breed spontaniously in a pond?
I had my 3 fantail goldies for 4 years and they never did anything.
'course they could have all been the same sex, but what are the odds?
snip

My fish have spawned numerous times, and without me even playing romantic
music near the pond.


--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
http://www.iheartmypond.com/animals/fish/spawning
I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.

I'm assuming then that a pond is a better enviroment for mating than an
indoor tank. ;-)
--
K.

Sprout the MungBean to reply

"I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell‹you
see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain

In article , "~ Windsong ~" P@P
wrote:

"Katra" wrote in message
...

## Me too, but frogs don't appeal to me as food.

Never had frog legs?

$$ No.

## And those water snakes love fresh fish. :-( I found the best price
on
nets at ACE Hardware.

There is one near here, but Lowe's also has both pond and gardening
supplies, including both deer and bird netting. Deer netting comes in
larger lengths and widths for a cheaper price and is almost identical.
I'll probably look at that first.

$$ I went for the least visible netting. The fine black bird netting
worked.

## Once herons know your pond is there you cannot get rid of them.
Shooting
them is illegal so nets are the only answer.

I understand... I know they are protected but I'll bet you are tempted
sometimes. ;-) It's like, with all the lakes and rivers in this area,
why are you bothering my pond???

$$ Exactly! Ponds of koi and GF are like taking candy from a baby for
herons - such easy pickings for the birds. As for the King Fishers -
nothing but nets work. They were a lesser problem here in TN.

## We have few doves here and they're not a problem. We used the fake
owls
and snakes in hopes of discouraging the herons and King Fishers.

I've never seen a kingfisher in this area.
But that does not mean they are not here.

$$ I never saw them either until we put the ponds in. I saw it dive into
one pond and in seconds flew away with a beautiful koi. :*( It seemed to
just drop out of the sky. So we had both KF and herons in our ponds.
Believe me we lost so many fish that we said if the nets failed we would
give up fish and let the snakes and bullfrogs have the ponds. The last
straw was the beautiful yellow transparent butterfly koi the herons got. He
was my favorite with long flowing gossamer fins and tail... and very
unusual. I went to ACE that very afternoon and by sundown the ponds were
netted. I drape the net over those cheap garden fences that look like
upside-down Us. They come in 10' lengths for about $3 at Wally World. I
bought the dark green ones. It holds the way above the surface of the
water. Only tiny fogs, newts and baby snakes can get through the net.

## Yes, you'll learn a lot here and on rec.ponds.

I'm not on rec.ponds, but I probably should join.
From what I've seen so far, there is a LOT more to maintaining a pond
than just digging a hole in the ground, putting in a waterfall/filter
system and letting it go!
I need to research it thoroughly before starting it!

$$ Yes, that would be an excellent idea. :-) Don't jump into something you
may regret later.

All input is most appreciated... ;-)

Thank you!

black netting should be all but invisible.

Is there a problem with letting it touch the surface of the water?
--
K.

Sprout the MungBean to reply

"I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell‹you
see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain

"Katra" wrote in message
...
snip
Am beginning to think that the liner WOULD be better, so my size is not
so restricted.

I had the luxury of being a little wasteful when I built my pond, so I dug
the hole, and then measured the widest, longest and deepest spots. I bought
liner for those measurements. This way I had the pond I wanted, exactly the
way I wanted, and I did not have to stress over getting the perfect liner.
The downside is I had much spare liner. On the upside, I now have a stream,
and in the spring I will be installing a lotus only garden with the spare
liner.

About Filter systems...

I've seen some nice pre-made waterfalls set up with a filter system
inside of them, accessable from the back for ease of use and cleaning.

What do you think of that concept?

Mechanical filters are very nice, and very wide spread. They will require
lots of cleaning, especially early in the season when there is lots of work
for them to do. I prefer a Veggie Filter. I have a second smaller pond that
is planted from edge to edge with plants. That keeps my water sparkling. No
filter media to clean, no worries about canisters filling up. In the spring,
I drain the pond down just a tad to clean up. While it's down, I scoop out
the VF, refill, and I am done for the year.

Check out http://www.iheartmypond.com/WaterQuality/Filtration/.

--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
http://www.iheartmypond.com/WaterQuality/Filtration/
I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.

"Katra" wrote in message
...
snip
My fish have spawned numerous times, and without me even playing
romantic
music near the pond.
snip

I'm assuming then that a pond is a better enviroment for mating than an
indoor tank. ;-)

snip

I am by no means a breeding expert. In fact the pond spawns were the result
of nothing more then healthy water. I can take credit for the environment
being nice, but other then that I did nothing to encourage it. In my
aquariums, I have never seen the result of a spawning, but that may be due
to a lack of safe eff laying spaces and predators. In the pond, there is
plenty of space to spawn.

We have had numerous minnow spawnings. We had a few hundred in there at one
time, but the frogs and my mother in law, culled them for me. The Koi and
Goldies have also spawned a few times. In fact this year, I'll need to give
some away no doubt.

Anyone in MD need Koi, Goldies or Koinkeys?


--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
http://www.iheartmypond.com
I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.

In article ,
"Benign Vanilla" wrote:

"Katra" wrote in message
...
snip
Am beginning to think that the liner WOULD be better, so my size is not
so restricted.

I had the luxury of being a little wasteful when I built my pond, so I dug
the hole, and then measured the widest, longest and deepest spots. I bought
liner for those measurements. This way I had the pond I wanted, exactly the
way I wanted, and I did not have to stress over getting the perfect liner.
The downside is I had much spare liner. On the upside, I now have a stream,
and in the spring I will be installing a lotus only garden with the spare
liner.

Sounds beautiful!


About Filter systems...

I've seen some nice pre-made waterfalls set up with a filter system
inside of them, accessable from the back for ease of use and cleaning.

What do you think of that concept?

Mechanical filters are very nice, and very wide spread. They will require
lots of cleaning, especially early in the season when there is lots of work
for them to do. I prefer a Veggie Filter. I have a second smaller pond that
is planted from edge to edge with plants. That keeps my water sparkling. No
filter media to clean, no worries about canisters filling up. In the spring,
I drain the pond down just a tad to clean up. While it's down, I scoop out
the VF, refill, and I am done for the year.

Check out http://www.iheartmypond.com/WaterQuality/Filtration/.

Will do, thanks!
The few ponds I've seen around here seem to use a separate tank filled
with plants and some bales of barley straw.
--
K.

Sprout the MungBean to reply

"I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell‹you
see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain

"Katra" wrote in message
...

black netting should be all but invisible.

Is there a problem with letting it touch the surface of the water?
====================
It's a lot less visible then the crisscrossed string and wires were, or the
fake owl, fake snakes etc. Nets don't touch the water surface as I
mentioned earlier. :-) They're a good 18" above the surface, hung over
that cheap dark green garden fencing that looks like upside-down Us. Look
at the pics on my website? How visible are the nets?

The only thing that gets past the nets are tiny frogs, newts and baby
snakes. Nothing large enough to eat my GF and koi. :-)
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
http://www.heartoftn.net/users/windsong/index.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~