Problems keeping Gold Rams alive

[/i][/color]

If I was looking at width with the figures I gave I'd have some pretty fat
fish :-)

Excluding tails:-

6 platys 0.5 inches - 3 inches
5 gups at 0.25 inches - 1.25 inches
4 gouramis at 1.5 inches - 6 inches
2 clowns at 3 inches - 6 inches
4 clowns at 0.75 inches - 3 inches
8 neons at lets say 0.5 inches - 4 inches

That gives me say 24 fish inches. If you count tails in this then yes it is
more.

Also bear in mind UK gallons are more than US gallons - just did a UK to US
gallon conversion and my tank is 57 US gallons.

Gill[/quote]

I seriously think you are underestimating the size of your fish. A full grown male guppie is about 1 inch, not including the tail (which can add another inch).
So PLEASE re-evauate your fish and how many you have in there! For their safety and health, as they are living creatures.

"winddancir" wrote in message
. ..



If I was looking at width with the figures I gave I'd have some pretty
fat
fish :-)

Excluding tails:-

6 platys 0.5 inches - 3 inches
5 gups at 0.25 inches - 1.25 inches
4 gouramis at 1.5 inches - 6 inches
2 clowns at 3 inches - 6 inches
4 clowns at 0.75 inches - 3 inches
8 neons at lets say 0.5 inches - 4 inches

That gives me say 24 fish inches. If you count tails in this then yes
it is
more.

Also bear in mind UK gallons are more than US gallons - just did a UK
to US
gallon conversion and my tank is 57 US gallons.

Gill

I seriously think you are underestimating the size of your fish. A full
grown male guppie is about 1 inch, not including the tail (which can add
another inch).
So PLEASE re-evauate your fish and how many you have in there! For their
safety and health, as they are living creatures.


--
winddancir[/i][/color]

I've very seriously measured my fish...short of taking them out of the tank
with a ruler I'm about right and hey I'm not about to do that...against the
glass is good enough for me...I also know that they will grow bigger than
they are now....my answer to this is buy a bigger tank and move the fish...I
am very aware of the implications of over-crowding....my water quality is
very good at the moment...but I have the option of moving these fish
elsewhere if it becomes an issue.,,,and I love my fish.

When I had the initial problem this tank did not even have the fish I have
now....this is not relevant to the problem that I posted. Also I know people
who have overcrowded their tanks and the implications of this....hey which
fish died this week? MINE DO NOT - except this problem that over the months
I have had with Gold Rams...hence my post


FYI any more Gold Rams do not go into this tank...we are setting up a new
tank this weekend for this...I am not adding any more fish into this
tank...I'm happy with what is there and know that at some point in the
future when they grow to maturity I will need to move some but at present
they are fine....I monitor the water every week if not more often....if
there is a problem I will move them...we already have 3 tanks so this is an
option!!!! 4th tomorrow (plus the cycle period) plus 5th next week plus the
cycle...

I'm sorry but I totally resent your attitude that I do not care for the fish
that I have....they are totally my responsibility and I will do everything
within my power to keep my healthy, happy fish to continue that way...

"Gill Passman" gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote in message
.. .

"winddancir" wrote in
message
. ..



If I was looking at width with the figures I gave I'd have some pretty
fat
fish :-)

Excluding tails:-

6 platys 0.5 inches - 3 inches
5 gups at 0.25 inches - 1.25 inches
4 gouramis at 1.5 inches - 6 inches
2 clowns at 3 inches - 6 inches
4 clowns at 0.75 inches - 3 inches
8 neons at lets say 0.5 inches - 4 inches

That gives me say 24 fish inches. If you count tails in this then yes
it is
more.

Also bear in mind UK gallons are more than US gallons - just did a UK
to US
gallon conversion and my tank is 57 US gallons.

Gill

I seriously think you are underestimating the size of your fish. A full
grown male guppie is about 1 inch, not including the tail (which can add
another inch).
So PLEASE re-evauate your fish and how many you have in there! For their
safety and health, as they are living creatures.


--
winddancir

I've very seriously measured my fish...short of taking them out of the[/i][/color]
tank
with a ruler I'm about right and hey I'm not about to do that...against
the
glass is good enough for me...I also know that they will grow bigger than
they are now....my answer to this is buy a bigger tank and move the
fish...I
am very aware of the implications of over-crowding....my water quality is
very good at the moment...but I have the option of moving these fish
elsewhere if it becomes an issue.,,,and I love my fish.

When I had the initial problem this tank did not even have the fish I have
now....this is not relevant to the problem that I posted. Also I know
people
who have overcrowded their tanks and the implications of this....hey which
fish died this week? MINE DO NOT - except this problem that over the
months
I have had with Gold Rams...hence my post


FYI any more Gold Rams do not go into this tank...we are setting up a new
tank this weekend for this...I am not adding any more fish into this
tank...I'm happy with what is there and know that at some point in the
future when they grow to maturity I will need to move some but at present
they are fine....I monitor the water every week if not more often....if
there is a problem I will move them...we already have 3 tanks so this is
an
option!!!! 4th tomorrow (plus the cycle period) plus 5th next week plus
the
cycle...

I'm sorry but I totally resent your attitude that I do not care for the
fish
that I have....they are totally my responsibility and I will do everything
within my power to keep my healthy, happy fish to continue that way...

You may have "very seriously measured" your fish. But I agree with
winddancir. Your tank is crowded and you have undersized your fish even if
you did measure carefully. Even small neons and platies I would count at no
smaller than 1" (even if they are a tad smaller). And I consider 1" per 2
gallons pretty heavily stocked. With fish like loaches, 1" per 3 gallons.

And you may not like winddancir's attitude, but I can't say I much care for
yours. All that person did was offer advice and you refuse to accept any
criticism. Just because your fish have not dropped dead does not mean it is
not overcrowded. Fish just don't drop dead from overcrowding, they get
sick, especially the sensitive ones like rams.

And also, in the beggining you put the rams in before the tank was cycled I
see in an earlier post. If there is any measurable ammonia at all, the
tank is not cycled. And the worst part is what comes after the ammonia
cycle, and that is the nitrite cycle which is much more harmful to fish than
ammonia.

If you aren't willing to look at all possibilities you shouldn't ask for
help.

--

Margolis
http://web.archive.org/web/200302152...qs/AGQ2FAQ.htm
http://www.unrealtower.org/faq

sorry, don't get too offended at my post. After reading it, it sounds much
more harsh than I meant it to be ;o0

Just as an example of what I consider very heavily stocked I will give my 75
gallon which is actually about 80 gallons with the water included in my 20
gallon sump.

13 cardinal tetras - 1"
3 oto's - 1.5"
3 golden chinese algae eaters - 1.5
3 juhlii cory's - 1.5"
3 panda cory's - 1"
2 clown plecos - 1"
4 discus - 2"

thats 39.5" of fish in 80 gallons of water, and that is VERY crowded in my
opinion. But I do have very good filtration and do 50% water changes at
least once a week.

Plus, what are the internal dimensions of your tank? I have yet to see a
tank that actually has the capacity that is advertised. All of the tanks I
see go by the outer dimensions of the tank. The internal capacity is
usually several gallons less, then you have to consider the displacement of
the gravel and decorations.

by my calculations with the fish list you gave I would say you have at least
35-40" of fish in probably less than 50 us gallons of water. This is all
opinion of course. Your platy's and neons I would not count as any smaller
than 1" even if they are.

fish stocking is not an exact science.

--

Margolis
http://web.archive.org/web/200302152...qs/AGQ2FAQ.htm
http://www.unrealtower.org/faq

"Margolis" wrote in message
...
sorry, don't get too offended at my post. After reading it, it sounds
much
more harsh than I meant it to be ;o0

Just as an example of what I consider very heavily stocked I will give my
75
gallon which is actually about 80 gallons with the water included in my 20
gallon sump.

13 cardinal tetras - 1"
3 oto's - 1.5"
3 golden chinese algae eaters - 1.5
3 juhlii cory's - 1.5"
3 panda cory's - 1"
2 clown plecos - 1"
4 discus - 2"

thats 39.5" of fish in 80 gallons of water, and that is VERY crowded in my
opinion. But I do have very good filtration and do 50% water changes at
least once a week.

Plus, what are the internal dimensions of your tank? I have yet to see a
tank that actually has the capacity that is advertised. All of the tanks
I
see go by the outer dimensions of the tank. The internal capacity is
usually several gallons less, then you have to consider the displacement
of
the gravel and decorations.

by my calculations with the fish list you gave I would say you have at
least
35-40" of fish in probably less than 50 us gallons of water. This is all
opinion of course. Your platy's and neons I would not count as any
smaller
than 1" even if they are.

fish stocking is not an exact science.

--

Margolis

http://web.archive.org/web/200302152...qs/AGQ2FAQ.htm
http://www.unrealtower.org/faq




Hi,
Thanks for your posts. Ok even allowing 1" for the fish I still don't make
the figures the same as you but let's agree to disagree....:-). The fish are
healthy and happy and the water quality is good - 0 ammonia, 0 nitrate, 0
nitrite and PH 7.0 (it's usually 7.5) - these are todays readings. Any
problems and some of the the fish will be moved (we have more than one
tank). Plus the first two Rams died with far less fish in it than there are
now.

A quick one on the tank capacity - in the UK tanks are now sold with metric
measurements. I got confused as to what the exact water capacity of my tank
was so I asked the LFS who sold it to me - he told me 47.5 UK gallons which
roughly equates to round 55 US gallons.

The tank was up and running (with plants) for just over 2 weeks before the
first fish went in (3 Gouramis)....the rest went in very slowly in small
quantities at 2 week intervals and only after a water quality check. As far
as I'm concerned no more fish are going in this tank because I do not want
it over-stocked....I do a 20% water change once a week and include a gravel
clean in this.

The reason for this posting is that we are setting up a new tank and wanted
to put some Gold Rams in it but did not want the experience I had before -
I've had some good feedback on this and now have more of an idea how to try
and achieve it - or it might just be our water (hard/PH7.5 usually) just
doesn't suit them. The new tank will be set up tomorrow, using a mix of
existing tank water, substrate, plants and filter medium and topped up with
new water - and I'll probably add some Cycle to it. It will then be left
until the end of the month before any fish go in (at least 3 weeks). Before
any fish go in the water quality will be rechecked - it is unlikely we will
put Rams in as the first fish as we will want to ensure everything is fine
before they go in.

Cheers