SAEs getting fat

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005, LM wrote:

I have 4 SAE's in the tank. they're all very active and healthy, but they
are such hogs

Well, you need to used to the fact they eat a lot and eat fast, but you
can certainly find ways to control this without resorting to giving them
back to LFS.

I own SAEs and clown loaches along with a couple of more timid fish. Both
species eat till they're round like pigs and sink like rocks - and both
are damn fast.

To keep them from eating way too much, but make other fish happy, I do
three things:

1) I feed when fast feeders are less active. Late afternoon, when lights
are out, clown loaches and SAEs are often dozing and fail to notice
food; many other species (plecos, barbs) are very much awake and
happily dine on whatever I put in the tank.

2) I feed long-lasting foods that take hours to get done with. Frozen
green peas are a great example. Even though fast fish are there
first, others get a chance to grab just as much.

There are some foods that SAEs have hard time dealing with at all,
but that pose no problem to other species. It depends on who you have
in your tank, but my panaque plecos can cope with a whole raw carrot
quite efficiently, whereas SAEs can't.

3) I use combined simulatenous feeding. I put SAE's favourite snacks
along with foods they like less. After a relatively small but
favored snack, clown loaches and SAEs are somewhat less likely to go
after something they find less tasty. Althought it might be
a challenge to find something SAEs do not go bonkers about,
it is most certainly possible (Sera Vipachips work for me).

--
------------------------- bash$ ){ :|:&};: --
Michal Zalewski * [http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx]
Did you know that clones never use mirrors?
--------------------------- 2005-02-26 00:50 --

http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/photo/current/

Fat as in "gosh that's a big belly after you've eaten" or fat
as in "you aren't supposed to have that shape" ?

Keep in mind SAE's get pretty big. They eat a lot.

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Thusly (Richard Sexton) Spake Unto All:

Keep in mind SAE's get pretty big. They eat a lot.

And, frankly, I would let them.

"Richard Sexton" wrote in message
...
Fat as in "gosh that's a big belly after you've eaten" or fat
as in "you aren't supposed to have that shape" ?

Keep in mind SAE's get pretty big. They eat a lot.

I'm happy when mine take on a torpedo shape - a slight stomach bulge. I've
seen some thin SAE's in my travels around LFSs and in fact, my 4 were almost
anorexic when I bought them. Different story now - they discovered the algae
disks this morning and pigged out - a lesson there - half a tab for all 4,
so they graze on what they are supposed to later in the day - algae

Oz

--
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"Michal Zalewski" wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.58.0502260050070.30219@dione...
On Fri, 25 Feb 2005, LM wrote:

I have 4 SAE's in the tank. they're all very active and healthy, but
they
are such hogs

Well, you need to used to the fact they eat a lot and eat fast, but you
can certainly find ways to control this without resorting to giving
them
back to LFS.

I own SAEs and clown loaches along with a couple of more timid fish.
Both
species eat till they're round like pigs and sink like rocks - and both
are damn fast.

To keep them from eating way too much, but make other fish happy, I do
three things:

1) I feed when fast feeders are less active. Late afternoon, when
lights
are out, clown loaches and SAEs are often dozing and fail to notice
food; many other species (plecos, barbs) are very much awake and
happily dine on whatever I put in the tank.

2) I feed long-lasting foods that take hours to get done with. Frozen
green peas are a great example. Even though fast fish are there
first, others get a chance to grab just as much.

There are some foods that SAEs have hard time dealing with at all,
but that pose no problem to other species. It depends on who you
have
in your tank, but my panaque plecos can cope with a whole raw
carrot
quite efficiently, whereas SAEs can't.

3) I use combined simulatenous feeding. I put SAE's favourite snacks
along with foods they like less. After a relatively small but
favored snack, clown loaches and SAEs are somewhat less likely to
go
after something they find less tasty. Althought it might be
a challenge to find something SAEs do not go bonkers about,
it is most certainly possible (Sera Vipachips work for me).

--
------------------------- bash$ ){ :|:&};: --
Michal Zalewski

Some really excellent ideas there Michal. I wonder if linda could post
some pics. SAEs are riverine fish, so an area of the tank with higher
turbulence might give them some much needed exercise. Varying the size
of the food can help too (small fish concentrate on smaller pieces, while
fat fish don't bother). Getting them to fight over an algae wafer in a
back corner can sometimes be a good diversion to the real feeding going
on in the front. An example of diet food is cucumber, which is mostly
water. Ultimately you might need to reset the tank, and move the SAEs
into a larger tank with larger and equally aggressive eaters so that you
can tone down this current tank.
--
www.NetMax.tk

Hi Netmax,

I'll try to post a photo.

as for turbulence, i have two powerhead 200's churning the UGF and HOT
Magnum filter on the 37G.. it's pretty turbulent in there without blowing
fish around too much :-) I bouthg tand meant to use the HOT filter as a
temporary cleaning filter, but got lazy and just left it on the tank one
day, and it's been there since :-) it's just full of fiberous filter
material that gets cleaned every several months when it gets clogged so bad
the flow becomes noticably slower.

recently SAE's been harassing eachother.. may be the tank is getting small
for them? hmm...

I wrote this in the other reply, but just to reiterate what I have in the
tank now:

4 SAEs
4 pearl gouramis (t. leeri)
4 zebra loaches (b. striata)
3 chain/dwarf loaches (b. sidthemunkis)
? otocincluses (more than 3, less than 7... they keep hiding so it's hard to
tell)
2 danios (both 2+ yr old, so they're getting old... don't intend to replace
them after they go to fish heaven)
3 Amazon sword (BIG.. about 15in tall and bushy)
1 anubias (getting big too.. sprawling across an 8-in driftwood)
bunch of java ferns (dense foliage...)
bunch of stem plants (looking stringy due to SAE damage..)

linda

Some really excellent ideas there Michal. I wonder if linda could post
some pics. SAEs are riverine fish, so an area of the tank with higher
turbulence might give them some much needed exercise. Varying the size
of the food can help too (small fish concentrate on smaller pieces, while
fat fish don't bother). Getting them to fight over an algae wafer in a
back corner can sometimes be a good diversion to the real feeding going
on in the front. An example of diet food is cucumber, which is mostly
water. Ultimately you might need to reset the tank, and move the SAEs
into a larger tank with larger and equally aggressive eaters so that you
can tone down this current tank.
--
www.NetMax.tk

Thusly "LM" Spake Unto All:

I'll try to post a photo.

You'll find that difficult in this group.
However for comparison, these SAE's:
http://www.andras.net/images/siamese_algae_eater_6.jpg
http://www.aquabotanic.com/images/SAE2.gif
aren't fat.

recently SAE's been harassing eachother.. may be the tank is getting small
for them? hmm...

No, they often do that. SAE's are said to be peaceful and social, and
compared to chinese algae eaters they are, but it's still a truth with
considerable modification - quarrelling and chasing are normal
activities of SAE's. Some individuals can be *very* aggressive against
conspecifics. No harm will come of it, provided you have tight-fitting
lid (otherwise you'll start finding SAE's on the carpet, as they tend
to jump when chased).
If it gets annoying, with constant round-the-clock chasing, buying
more of them may help diffuse aggression.
Alternatively, if you have one of those excessively aggressive
individuals, removing it might not be a bad idea.

Hi,

yeah.. 2 of the 4 looks like the ones in the photo. the 2 "fat" ones have a
belly that bulges out down and out more.. when he lies on gravel or
something flat, if you're only looking at his belly, it looks like he's
arching his back and sticking out his belly so his front fins (pectoral?)
barely touch the ground... but he's not (the back looks normal).

i tired taking photo.. hard to do (fast swimmer). I'll try again. all the
photos I took that shows his pudginess only shows his snout and beginning of
his belly region. i'll see if I can coax him to come out more when there's
food out tonight...

linda

"Mean_Chlorine" wrote in message
...
Thusly "LM" Spake Unto All:

I'll try to post a photo.

You'll find that difficult in this group.
However for comparison, these SAE's:
http://www.andras.net/images/siamese_algae_eater_6.jpg
http://www.aquabotanic.com/images/SAE2.gif
aren't fat.

recently SAE's been harassing eachother.. may be the tank is getting
small
for them? hmm...

No, they often do that. SAE's are said to be peaceful and social, and
compared to chinese algae eaters they are, but it's still a truth with
considerable modification - quarrelling and chasing are normal
activities of SAE's. Some individuals can be *very* aggressive against
conspecifics. No harm will come of it, provided you have tight-fitting
lid (otherwise you'll start finding SAE's on the carpet, as they tend
to jump when chased).
If it gets annoying, with constant round-the-clock chasing, buying
more of them may help diffuse aggression.
Alternatively, if you have one of those excessively aggressive
individuals, removing it might not be a bad idea.

On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 14:50:48 -0800, "LM" wrote:

Hi Netmax,

I'll try to post a photo.

as for turbulence, i have two powerhead 200's churning the UGF and HOT
Magnum filter on the 37G.. it's pretty turbulent in there without blowing
fish around too much :-) I bouthg tand meant to use the HOT filter as a
temporary cleaning filter, but got lazy and just left it on the tank one
day, and it's been there since :-) it's just full of fiberous filter
material that gets cleaned every several months when it gets clogged so bad
the flow becomes noticably slower.

recently SAE's been harassing eachother.. may be the tank is getting small
for them? hmm...

I have 6 four inch SAEs in a 29 gallon community tank, 8 in a 75
gallon tank and 1 in a 10 gallon tank. All get along with their
mates. One noticeable difference in the 75 gallon, the SAEs, Clown
Loaches, Blue Gouramis and Black Mollies get into a group swim and
swarm up and down in one corner. It is amazing to see. Never any
rumble, just appears to be fun.

When the fish were new, there was individual species shoaling. As
they lived together longer, there has been less and less shoaling by
species. However, resting seems to still be done by species. The
SAEs will rest on one Annubia plant each on its own leaf, whereas the
Clown Loaches go into the base of a plant, usually out of my sight.

dick

I wrote this in the other reply, but just to reiterate what I have in the
tank now:

4 SAEs
4 pearl gouramis (t. leeri)
4 zebra loaches (b. striata)
3 chain/dwarf loaches (b. sidthemunkis)
? otocincluses (more than 3, less than 7... they keep hiding so it's hard to
tell)
2 danios (both 2+ yr old, so they're getting old... don't intend to replace
them after they go to fish heaven)
3 Amazon sword (BIG.. about 15in tall and bushy)
1 anubias (getting big too.. sprawling across an 8-in driftwood)
bunch of java ferns (dense foliage...)
bunch of stem plants (looking stringy due to SAE damage..)

linda

Some really excellent ideas there Michal. I wonder if linda could post
some pics. SAEs are riverine fish, so an area of the tank with higher
turbulence might give them some much needed exercise. Varying the size
of the food can help too (small fish concentrate on smaller pieces, while
fat fish don't bother). Getting them to fight over an algae wafer in a
back corner can sometimes be a good diversion to the real feeding going
on in the front. An example of diet food is cucumber, which is mostly
water. Ultimately you might need to reset the tank, and move the SAEs
into a larger tank with larger and equally aggressive eaters so that you
can tone down this current tank.
--
www.NetMax.tk