Water problems?

The items that were cleaned with bleached were soaked in fresh water and
rinsed over a dozen times and re-introduced after a week.

It is not cycling, the test kits work as I've detected problems in the last
month with a 6 gallon tank I had set up for a week or so. It showed the
Nitrite and Ammonia spike just fine and then the nitrates when they kicked
in.

I use an Emperor filter with the bio-wheel. There have always been enough
bio bugs that stay in that thing that I never have cycling problems. I keep
monitoring the levels, but the tank never cycles.

"Kodiak" wrote in message
...
All that bleaching and stripdown cleaning.
Then your main fish is OK for a day or two, then he starts showing signs.
Sounds like your tank is cycling, I know yur tests are showing ok,
but draining, scrubbing, bleaching, hot water, etc, that's no good unless
you have a serious parasite or other problem. After doing this, you really
should
see an Ammo/Nitrite spike after 10/20 days. If your tests aren't
registering
something
is wrong with the test kits, or the method used.

How many days did you wait after the main bleaching/cleaning and before
you
reintroduced fish?

As Ingrid said, 30-50% water changes every other day
(aged, dechlorinated, temperature matched), if there's anything bad in the
tank, it should clear up (get diluted) in a week or so. Salt will help
your
fish with the Nitrite spike.

...Kodiak


"Devin" wrote in message
news
I'm having a water quality problem here. I thought I would list out
everything and see if anyone here has any ideas. I'm running out of
things
to try.

I have a 40 gallon tank. Emperor 280 filter, I swap out the charcoal
cartridge in it every other week, rinse every week. The extra media
tray
in
the filter is filled with floss, which I also rinse or replace every
week.
I have an airpump, and a 24" bubblebar which puts out a lot of bubbles
(bubbles do not interfere with filter pickup tube). I change 6-9
gallons
of
the water every week, water is aged at least 24 hours in covered vat
with
airstone, about 1.5 tablespoons of aquarium salt and declor added to
water.
Besides these items, the only other things in the tank are some polished
river rocks, 4 small silk aquarium plants, 1 large silk plant, and 1
live
plant. I also keep 1 small piece of coral in there to keep the PH up.
Hood
tank light, it kicks on at 3:30 every afternoon and turns off at 11:30
at
night. Tank temp is 76-78 degrees depending on time of day.

Parameters are as follows: Nitrite 0(zero) ppm;PH 7.6; Ammonia
0(Zero)ppm;
Nitrate is between 5 and 10 ppm (closer to 5 on chart). I use the Doc
Wellfish water testing kit for all of these readings.

5 goldfish in tank, 2 are very small (only an inch long, hatched last
year),
one is medium with a 2 inch body, and two are large, about 8 inches
overall.

Here's the thing: had high Nitrates (almost 20ppm) a few weeks back- I
think
I goofed and overfed or something. It had been over 6 months since last
total cleaning, so I did one. Drained tank, rinsed and scrubbed the
tank
with hot water. Broke apart and scrubbed out filter with hot water.
Plants
and rocks were soaked overnight in bleach and water solution, rinsed
over
several days and in several different vats of fresh water, and air
dried.
Scrubbed the bubble bar with hot water. (scrubbing of everything is done
with old toothbrush that is only used for aquarium cleaning, and one of
the
white nylon acrylic tank scouring pads).

Set tank back up, let it run with the filter going, bubble bar running,
and
a hang on canister filter with fresh carbon for about 36 hours.
Re-introduced fish. Have been checking water every other day over past
week
and a half and readings stay as listed above.

Okay, here's the problem. I have a large fish who keeps hiding. He
gets
in
the back and wedges himself under the bubble bar and sits on the bottom.
When the tank was first re-setup, he was active. As the days went on he
first started hiding when the light was on. Now he hides all of the
time.
When it's time to get fed, he comes out and is active, eats, forages for
an
hour or so, and then hides again. I also had one of my favorite fish
die
last week; I don't think it was related to this (she had had a pea stuck
in
her mouth 3 weeks ago and it was overnight before I found out about it
and
removed it, and I think it lead to her death), but I can't be sure.
Besides
the one fish hiding, none of the other fish show signs of injuries, fin
veining, or any other problems.

I think there is something wrong with the water that the tests are not
showing. Should I have replaced the bubble bar and bleach cleaned the
tank
and filter as well? Are there any other water tests I'm not doing that
I
should? It seems to me that there may be waterborne parasites at work
here.
In the past I have had situations similar to this, and adding CopperSafe
medication to the water seemed to help for a while. I've done tests on
the
water right out of the tap, and they coincide with the results I listed
earlier.

Thanks for any suggestions.

Devin

Would a de-chlorinantor work to neutralize the bleach/chlorine?? I think it
would work to remove any of the bleach that might have been remaining.. As
far as tearing a tank apart. I resist, due to the microbes that their bio
filtration job. The only thing I bleach out from my tanks is my corals (
these are in the Mbuna tank's ). I use the typical "sponge" reconmended by
the filter manufacter, but only toss them once the sponge is so plugged I
can not rinse them any more... And yes, they get a weekly or bi weekly
rinsing. In my * on the goldie rubber maid * AQ 300 I have yet to toss the
sponge from starting a tank 3 monthes back, even though, it is full of tiny
snails..I wonder if my loaches would like to hang in the filter for a
while... Sounds like you have been fortunant not to ever notice the tank
cycling, sometimes can happen so quickly you never notice..

Happy Fish Keeping..

Tim
"Devin" wrote in message
nk.net...
The items that were cleaned with bleached were soaked in fresh water and
rinsed over a dozen times and re-introduced after a week.

It is not cycling, the test kits work as I've detected problems in the
last
month with a 6 gallon tank I had set up for a week or so. It showed the
Nitrite and Ammonia spike just fine and then the nitrates when they kicked
in.

I use an Emperor filter with the bio-wheel. There have always been enough
bio bugs that stay in that thing that I never have cycling problems. I
keep
monitoring the levels, but the tank never cycles.

"Kodiak" wrote in message
...
All that bleaching and stripdown cleaning.
Then your main fish is OK for a day or two, then he starts showing
signs.
Sounds like your tank is cycling, I know yur tests are showing ok,
but draining, scrubbing, bleaching, hot water, etc, that's no good
unless
you have a serious parasite or other problem. After doing this, you
really
should
see an Ammo/Nitrite spike after 10/20 days. If your tests aren't
registering
something
is wrong with the test kits, or the method used.

How many days did you wait after the main bleaching/cleaning and before
you
reintroduced fish?

As Ingrid said, 30-50% water changes every other day
(aged, dechlorinated, temperature matched), if there's anything bad in
the
tank, it should clear up (get diluted) in a week or so. Salt will help
your
fish with the Nitrite spike.

...Kodiak


"Devin" wrote in message
news
I'm having a water quality problem here. I thought I would list out
everything and see if anyone here has any ideas. I'm running out of
things
to try.

I have a 40 gallon tank. Emperor 280 filter, I swap out the charcoal
cartridge in it every other week, rinse every week. The extra media
tray
in
the filter is filled with floss, which I also rinse or replace every
week.
I have an airpump, and a 24" bubblebar which puts out a lot of bubbles
(bubbles do not interfere with filter pickup tube). I change 6-9
gallons
of
the water every week, water is aged at least 24 hours in covered vat
with
airstone, about 1.5 tablespoons of aquarium salt and declor added to
water.
Besides these items, the only other things in the tank are some
polished
river rocks, 4 small silk aquarium plants, 1 large silk plant, and 1
live
plant. I also keep 1 small piece of coral in there to keep the PH up.
Hood
tank light, it kicks on at 3:30 every afternoon and turns off at 11:30
at
night. Tank temp is 76-78 degrees depending on time of day.

Parameters are as follows: Nitrite 0(zero) ppm;PH 7.6; Ammonia
0(Zero)ppm;
Nitrate is between 5 and 10 ppm (closer to 5 on chart). I use the Doc
Wellfish water testing kit for all of these readings.

5 goldfish in tank, 2 are very small (only an inch long, hatched last
year),
one is medium with a 2 inch body, and two are large, about 8 inches
overall.

Here's the thing: had high Nitrates (almost 20ppm) a few weeks back- I
think
I goofed and overfed or something. It had been over 6 months since
last
total cleaning, so I did one. Drained tank, rinsed and scrubbed the
tank
with hot water. Broke apart and scrubbed out filter with hot water.
Plants
and rocks were soaked overnight in bleach and water solution, rinsed
over
several days and in several different vats of fresh water, and air
dried.
Scrubbed the bubble bar with hot water. (scrubbing of everything is
done
with old toothbrush that is only used for aquarium cleaning, and one
of
the
white nylon acrylic tank scouring pads).

Set tank back up, let it run with the filter going, bubble bar
running,
and
a hang on canister filter with fresh carbon for about 36 hours.
Re-introduced fish. Have been checking water every other day over
past
week
and a half and readings stay as listed above.

Okay, here's the problem. I have a large fish who keeps hiding. He
gets
in
the back and wedges himself under the bubble bar and sits on the
bottom.
When the tank was first re-setup, he was active. As the days went on
he
first started hiding when the light was on. Now he hides all of the
time.
When it's time to get fed, he comes out and is active, eats, forages
for
an
hour or so, and then hides again. I also had one of my favorite fish
die
last week; I don't think it was related to this (she had had a pea
stuck
in
her mouth 3 weeks ago and it was overnight before I found out about it
and
removed it, and I think it lead to her death), but I can't be sure.
Besides
the one fish hiding, none of the other fish show signs of injuries,
fin
veining, or any other problems.

I think there is something wrong with the water that the tests are not
showing. Should I have replaced the bubble bar and bleach cleaned the
tank
and filter as well? Are there any other water tests I'm not doing
that
I
should? It seems to me that there may be waterborne parasites at work
here.
In the past I have had situations similar to this, and adding
CopperSafe
medication to the water seemed to help for a while. I've done tests
on
the
water right out of the tap, and they coincide with the results I
listed
earlier.

Thanks for any suggestions.

Devin

Thank you to all for the advice. My fat boy Charlie has perked up and is
back to his old self (there's a photo of him on this page
http://www.devinjpoore.com/photo.html , big orange and white fish on the
bottom row of photos).

Now I have to figure out what was causing the problems in the water. I've
cut out the frozen shrimp and blood worms for the last week, and will give
it to them only occasionaly from now on, being sure to microwave it first.
I'm pretty sure I was overfeeding, and having problems with the bio filter,
so now I know better. I'm also keeping out the silk plants as I have found
some water plants they will not eat.

thanks again,

Devin