A case of Ick?

and medications without any real evidence. Chloramphenical is an
example of an excellent antibiotic banned in the pet industry without
much evidence.

Uh, other than it causes Leukemia-like symptoms in many people. Great drug
for fish though, I still have some. It's a last resort antibiotic in humans.



--
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Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

Richard Sexton wrote:
and medications without any real evidence. Chloramphenical is an
example of an excellent antibiotic banned in the pet industry without
much evidence.


Uh, other than it causes Leukemia-like symptoms in many people. Great drug
for fish though, I still have some. It's a last resort antibiotic in humans.



Interesting...chloramphenical is one of the most commonly used
ingredient in eye drops over here....it's prescription only but is the
first thing usually given (I have a reaction to it personally so can't
use it)...

Got any stuff to back up the "last resort antibiotic" stuff?

On 13 Feb 2006 16:44:38 -0800,
wrote:

We do state the active ingredients on our web site and other
information we have published over the years. We just do not show the
binders. As for malachite green, (and a Californian for 43 years) they
have many carcinogenic issues with the product which have yet to be
proven. California has many problems banning fish (such as the piranah)
and medications without any real evidence. Chloramphenical is an
example of an excellent antibiotic banned in the pet industry without
much evidence.
Carl

In the world of human medicine, chloramphenicol is a very powerful
weapon against some very specific targets and it is one to which we
really don't want to see too many bacteria developing resistance. It
has been compromised during the past couple of decades, in spite of
careful prescribing, but it really is in a whole different ballpark
than tetracycline and erythromycin. And unlike the more common
antibiotics, chloramphenicol's adverse side effects can be far more
serious. Physicians always think twice before prescribing it - do a
web search, read all about it.

-- Mr Gardener

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 10:48:48 +0000, Gill Passman
wrote:

Richard Sexton wrote:
and medications without any real evidence. Chloramphenical is an
example of an excellent antibiotic banned in the pet industry without
much evidence.


Uh, other than it causes Leukemia-like symptoms in many people. Great drug
for fish though, I still have some. It's a last resort antibiotic in humans.



Interesting...chloramphenical is one of the most commonly used
ingredient in eye drops over here....it's prescription only but is the
first thing usually given (I have a reaction to it personally so can't
use it)...

Got any stuff to back up the "last resort antibiotic" stuff?

I haven't figured out how to insert hyperlinks in Agent, but a search
will take you to Merck Manual, PDR, etc. And you will find the last
resort stuff wherever you look. This drug needs to be saved for
typhoid, meningitis and serious stuff like that.


-- Mr Gardener

In article ,
Gill Passman wrote:
Richard Sexton wrote:
Interesting...chloramphenical is one of the most commonly used
ingredient in eye drops over here....it's prescription only but is the
first thing usually given (I have a reaction to it personally so can't
use it)...

Got any stuff to back up the "last resort antibiotic" stuff?

I got mine off a pharmacist fishkeepig friend, he told me this. Google
would probably provide more info than I have.

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

"Rodney M" wrote in message
...
*SNIP*
it. I have a Marineland Visi-Therm Stealth 100 heater and I moved the
dial to 86 degrees but the temperature of the tank will not go above
82 degrees, even after several days. I even tried moving the dial to
88 degrees but still no change.

Visitherm rates that heater for 30G tank; if you have it in a 29G, it's
pretty
much at the max volume the manufacturer believes it can heat uniformily.
Add a
second heater or one with more wattage. Visitherm are decent, I have 2
visitherm
deluxes in one of my tanks I haven't replaced with Ebo Jagers yet, but on
the low
end of the heater universe IMO. I always buy at least one "step" up in
regards to
rated volume to allow additional heating if needed, also works well if
upgrade tank
size that way. I have a 150 watt Jager in my 29G. It may not help you in
the current
circumstances, but you can find heaters fairly cheap online, say at
drsfostersmith.com or
big al's online or your choice of other fine sites. LFS prices for
heaters are friggin ridiculous.
the hobby is expensive enough, plan ahead saves some loot.

I've been treating the tank with the
Aquarisol for the past three days. I did a 25% water change the
second day and added the Aquarisol after that. Over the past 5 days,
the tank has been cloudy too. I'm thinking that might be a bacteria
bloom because I added alot of fish at once.

Good possibility. Whitish cloudy is bacterial bloom. Resposnse to adding
additional
fish/food/overfeeding to compensate for new fish (?).


I've already had 2 of the bleeding hearts die, one yesterday and
another one this morning. The barbs and the catfish are not showing
any white spots on there body or fins, just the bleeding hearts. I
would move the other fish to a different tank, but the only other tank
I have is an unheated 5 gallon.

Does this sound like Ick? Am I doing everything properly to clear it
up and hopefully save my fish? Any ideas on why my heater will not go
above 82 degrees? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

I don't have much experience with tetras, or ICH, I've managed never to
have it in my tanks, *knock on wood* but info on line for
Hyphessobrycon erythrostigma seem to suggest the fish should be kept at
about 80 degrees F max. some fish don't tolerate high temperatures, even
in
the short term. Only thing you're doing by raising temp is speeding life
cycle of
parasite - parasite only susceptible to meds in certain life stages.
Search online
for ICH or hopefully somebody more familiar with your fish/situation can
help better
than I. In either case, your tank is contaminated by the parasite at this
stage if more
than 1 fish are showing symptoms, moving them now will not contain the
disease IMO.
You're better off treating the tank. Perhaps look at different meds not
dependent on temp
increase if you don't have good results with the aquarisol.
In the future, use a quarantine tank for new arrivals, for tetras your 5G
would
probably work..get a small heater and get religious about water changes.
Good luck!
HTH

-lila pilamaya
Anybody know how to "reset" outlook?



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On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 17:34:18 -0500, "NetMax"
wrote:

"Rodney M" wrote in message
.. .

I've got a 29 gallon tank that has been cycled for over a month now.
I used two albino tiger barbs to cycle the tank. 10 days ago, I
picked up 6 bleeding heart tetra's and 3 young false juli catfish. I
know that's alot of fish to add at once but I've been watching my
levels and everything looks good. I acclimated all the of the fish
before putting them in my tank. Everybody seemed to be doing great.
The tiger barbs were a little freaked out the first day since they had
been the only fish in the tank for two months but were fine the next
day. On the second day, one of my catfish died. The next day, a
second one died and the third was missing. I moved all the
decorations and couldn't find him anywhere. I figured he jumped out
of the tank and one of my cats got him since there is a small opening
near the filter. 2 days later I find him floating at the top of the
tank. I brought the two back to the store (the fifth one didn't
surface until before the guarantee period) and they exchanged them.
All they had were full size false juli catfish so I got those. Come
to find out after talking with the LFS, those young juli's I got
bought just arrived the morning of the day I bought them. All the
stress of going from two tanks in one day is probably what killed
them. I was upset that the LFS didn't tell me when I bought them that
they were new or I would have held off.

After seven days of adding the new fish to my tank, I notice my
bleeding heart tetras have white spots all over there body and fins.
From what I can tell it looks like Ick. I've tried to get a picture
of the fish but I can't seem to get one that is clear enought. I went
down to the LFS and they recommend I pickup some Aquarisol
(http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...&N=2004+113521).
The instructions say to up the temperature in the tank to 85 degrees
and add 12 drops per 10 gallons daily until the Ich is gone. I
removed the filter cartridge and put in one that didn't have carbon in
it. I have a Marineland Visi-Therm Stealth 100 heater and I moved the
dial to 86 degrees but the temperature of the tank will not go above
82 degrees, even after several days. I even tried moving the dial to
88 degrees but still no change. I've been treating the tank with the
Aquarisol for the past three days. I did a 25% water change the
second day and added the Aquarisol after that. Over the past 5 days,
the tank has been cloudy too. I'm thinking that might be a bacteria
bloom because I added alot of fish at once.

I've already had 2 of the bleeding hearts die, one yesterday and
another one this morning. The barbs and the catfish are not showing
any white spots on there body or fins, just the bleeding hearts. I
would move the other fish to a different tank, but the only other tank
I have is an unheated 5 gallon.

Does this sound like Ick?

Would need a picture. Ich is small white dots. Probably is, as it's the
most common ailment fish catch.

Am I doing everything properly to clear it
up and hopefully save my fish?

Quarantine is what is (was) needed to keep your fish well. The store
fish are more at risk as they are less hardy due to the transit and water
shock. Their weakness may allow any diseases to grow stronger, putting
your fish at greater risk.

I guess I'm gonna have to invest in a 10 gallon quarantine tank and
put any new fish in that. I would really hate to put my other fish at
risk again.

Aquarisol is not particularly strong, and I've generally avoided it
because I don't like copper-based medications. Having said that, follow
the directions, keep the water clean and you'll probably be fine. Ich is
really not hard to cure, unless there are other underlying problems
(check your ammonia, nitrite levels). Weak fish might sucumb to it.

After using the Aquarisol for about 6 days and after reading/listening
to the advice of others, I tried using Quick Cure for 3 days. That
didn't seem to help either. I ended up losing all 6 of my bleeding
heart tetras by the third day of using it. Every morning I would wake
up and find 1 floating until they were all dead.

The weird thing is, my two catfish and two albino tiger barbs are
showing no signs of Ich and seem healthy. I quit using any kind of
treatment. I put a new filter in with carbon (wanted the carbon back
since my water was really cloudy and that helped clear it up). I'm
going to wait a couple of weeks before adding any new fish to my tank.

I still have the temperature running at about 83 degrees. I'm going
to gradually bring this back to 76 starting today. I wonder if I
should

Thanks for your help.

Rodney

On 11 Feb 2006 18:16:58 -0800, "Altum" wrote:

Rodney M wrote:

snip
Does this sound like Ick? Am I doing everything properly to clear it
up and hopefully save my fish? Any ideas on why my heater will not go
above 82 degrees? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Yes, it sounds like ich. Aquarisol is very hard to use. If I were
you, I'd do two big water changes to get rid of the copper and switch
to something simpler like 1/2 strength Quick Cure.

I tried switching over to Quick Cure but I didn't help. I lost of 6
of my bleeding heart tetras. Two of them were dead before I started
using it and the other 4 died by the third day of using the Quick
Cure.

My Visitherm Stealth goes to 86F without a problem. Heat above 85F
often kills ich, or at least speeds up ts lifecycle so it's more
vulnerable to medications. You may not have enough wattage if your
house is really cold.

II'm thinking my problem is due to the heater only be rated for a 30
gallon tank and mine is a 29 gallon. I should have bought a heater
with a higher wattage. On a good note, Marineland did offer to send
me a new heater free of charge, which was very nice.

Rodney

On 12 Feb 2006 15:15:44 -0800,
wrote:

I beleive your heater problems have been answered. But as for your ich
problems, I would be carefull with too much salt with catfish. Also I
cannot stress the importance of good water quality, you may have to do
daily 20% water changes (with proper conditioners). Good bio filtration
is a must, but this takes time. Seeding your tank with aged gravel from
a friend or an aged sponge filter (they work great) can also help. I
have used "medicated wonder shells' for years on my aquarium
maintenance route with excellent results (they also help with cloudy
water, but do not replace good water quality management). You can
obtain them at
http://americanaquariumproducts.com/...mProducts.html
Carl

Carl,

I never did add any salt, mostly because I didn't feel comfortable
doing so with my catfish. My tank has been cycled for a few months
now and I'm very good about keeping up with my water changes. I
probably do them way more often than I need to.

Thanks for the link to your shells. Seems like an interesting
product. Take care.

Rodney

"Rodney M" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 17:34:18 -0500, "NetMax"
wrote:

"Rodney M" wrote in message
. ..

I've got a 29 gallon tank that has been cycled for over a month now.
I used two albino tiger barbs to cycle the tank. 10 days ago, I
picked up 6 bleeding heart tetra's and 3 young false juli catfish. I
know that's alot of fish to add at once but I've been watching my
levels and everything looks good. I acclimated all the of the fish
before putting them in my tank. Everybody seemed to be doing great.
The tiger barbs were a little freaked out the first day since they
had
been the only fish in the tank for two months but were fine the next
day. On the second day, one of my catfish died. The next day, a
second one died and the third was missing. I moved all the
decorations and couldn't find him anywhere. I figured he jumped out
of the tank and one of my cats got him since there is a small opening
near the filter. 2 days later I find him floating at the top of the
tank. I brought the two back to the store (the fifth one didn't
surface until before the guarantee period) and they exchanged them.
All they had were full size false juli catfish so I got those. Come
to find out after talking with the LFS, those young juli's I got
bought just arrived the morning of the day I bought them. All the
stress of going from two tanks in one day is probably what killed
them. I was upset that the LFS didn't tell me when I bought them
that
they were new or I would have held off.

After seven days of adding the new fish to my tank, I notice my
bleeding heart tetras have white spots all over there body and fins.
From what I can tell it looks like Ick. I've tried to get a picture
of the fish but I can't seem to get one that is clear enought. I
went
down to the LFS and they recommend I pickup some Aquarisol
(http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...&N=2004+113521).
The instructions say to up the temperature in the tank to 85 degrees
and add 12 drops per 10 gallons daily until the Ich is gone. I
removed the filter cartridge and put in one that didn't have carbon
in
it. I have a Marineland Visi-Therm Stealth 100 heater and I moved
the
dial to 86 degrees but the temperature of the tank will not go above
82 degrees, even after several days. I even tried moving the dial to
88 degrees but still no change. I've been treating the tank with the
Aquarisol for the past three days. I did a 25% water change the
second day and added the Aquarisol after that. Over the past 5 days,
the tank has been cloudy too. I'm thinking that might be a bacteria
bloom because I added alot of fish at once.

I've already had 2 of the bleeding hearts die, one yesterday and
another one this morning. The barbs and the catfish are not showing
any white spots on there body or fins, just the bleeding hearts. I
would move the other fish to a different tank, but the only other
tank
I have is an unheated 5 gallon.

Does this sound like Ick?

Would need a picture. Ich is small white dots. Probably is, as it's
the
most common ailment fish catch.

Am I doing everything properly to clear it
up and hopefully save my fish?

Quarantine is what is (was) needed to keep your fish well. The store
fish are more at risk as they are less hardy due to the transit and
water
shock. Their weakness may allow any diseases to grow stronger, putting
your fish at greater risk.

I guess I'm gonna have to invest in a 10 gallon quarantine tank and
put any new fish in that. I would really hate to put my other fish at
risk again.

Aquarisol is not particularly strong, and I've generally avoided it
because I don't like copper-based medications. Having said that,
follow
the directions, keep the water clean and you'll probably be fine. Ich
is
really not hard to cure, unless there are other underlying problems
(check your ammonia, nitrite levels). Weak fish might sucumb to it.

After using the Aquarisol for about 6 days and after reading/listening
to the advice of others, I tried using Quick Cure for 3 days. That
didn't seem to help either. I ended up losing all 6 of my bleeding
heart tetras by the third day of using it. Every morning I would wake
up and find 1 floating until they were all dead.

The weird thing is, my two catfish and two albino tiger barbs are
showing no signs of Ich and seem healthy. I quit using any kind of
treatment. I put a new filter in with carbon (wanted the carbon back
since my water was really cloudy and that helped clear it up). I'm
going to wait a couple of weeks before adding any new fish to my tank.

I still have the temperature running at about 83 degrees. I'm going
to gradually bring this back to 76 starting today. I wonder if I
should

Thanks for your help.

Rodney

That's the trouble with many of these meds, if the fish are too far gone,
it can push them over the edge (and tetras don't have a lot of stamina to
start with). Letting the tank cool back to 76F and stabilize sounds like
a good idea. If after a month, you don't see any sign of Ich, then you
are probably clear. The bugs need hosts to survive, and that's usually
sick stressed fish.
--
www.NetMax.tk