A case of Ick?

I've got a 29 gallon tank that has been cycled for over a month now.
I used two albino tiger barbs to cycle the tank. 10 days ago, I
picked up 6 bleeding heart tetra's and 3 young false juli catfish. I
know that's alot of fish to add at once but I've been watching my
levels and everything looks good. I acclimated all the of the fish
before putting them in my tank. Everybody seemed to be doing great.
The tiger barbs were a little freaked out the first day since they had
been the only fish in the tank for two months but were fine the next
day. On the second day, one of my catfish died. The next day, a
second one died and the third was missing. I moved all the
decorations and couldn't find him anywhere. I figured he jumped out
of the tank and one of my cats got him since there is a small opening
near the filter. 2 days later I find him floating at the top of the
tank. I brought the two back to the store (the fifth one didn't
surface until before the guarantee period) and they exchanged them.
All they had were full size false juli catfish so I got those. Come
to find out after talking with the LFS, those young juli's I got
bought just arrived the morning of the day I bought them. All the
stress of going from two tanks in one day is probably what killed
them. I was upset that the LFS didn't tell me when I bought them that
they were new or I would have held off.

After seven days of adding the new fish to my tank, I notice my
bleeding heart tetras have white spots all over there body and fins.
From what I can tell it looks like Ick. I've tried to get a picture
of the fish but I can't seem to get one that is clear enought. I went
down to the LFS and they recommend I pickup some Aquarisol
(http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...&N=2004+113521).
The instructions say to up the temperature in the tank to 85 degrees
and add 12 drops per 10 gallons daily until the Ich is gone. I
removed the filter cartridge and put in one that didn't have carbon in
it. I have a Marineland Visi-Therm Stealth 100 heater and I moved the
dial to 86 degrees but the temperature of the tank will not go above
82 degrees, even after several days. I even tried moving the dial to
88 degrees but still no change. I've been treating the tank with the
Aquarisol for the past three days. I did a 25% water change the
second day and added the Aquarisol after that. Over the past 5 days,
the tank has been cloudy too. I'm thinking that might be a bacteria
bloom because I added alot of fish at once.

I've already had 2 of the bleeding hearts die, one yesterday and
another one this morning. The barbs and the catfish are not showing
any white spots on there body or fins, just the bleeding hearts. I
would move the other fish to a different tank, but the only other tank
I have is an unheated 5 gallon.

Does this sound like Ick? Am I doing everything properly to clear it
up and hopefully save my fish? Any ideas on why my heater will not go
above 82 degrees? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Rodney

"Rodney M" wrote in message
...

I've got a 29 gallon tank that has been cycled for over a month now.
I used two albino tiger barbs to cycle the tank. 10 days ago, I
picked up 6 bleeding heart tetra's and 3 young false juli catfish. I
know that's alot of fish to add at once but I've been watching my
levels and everything looks good. I acclimated all the of the fish
before putting them in my tank. Everybody seemed to be doing great.
The tiger barbs were a little freaked out the first day since they had
been the only fish in the tank for two months but were fine the next
day. On the second day, one of my catfish died. The next day, a
second one died and the third was missing. I moved all the
decorations and couldn't find him anywhere. I figured he jumped out
of the tank and one of my cats got him since there is a small opening
near the filter. 2 days later I find him floating at the top of the
tank. I brought the two back to the store (the fifth one didn't
surface until before the guarantee period) and they exchanged them.
All they had were full size false juli catfish so I got those. Come
to find out after talking with the LFS, those young juli's I got
bought just arrived the morning of the day I bought them. All the
stress of going from two tanks in one day is probably what killed
them. I was upset that the LFS didn't tell me when I bought them that
they were new or I would have held off.

After seven days of adding the new fish to my tank, I notice my
bleeding heart tetras have white spots all over there body and fins.
From what I can tell it looks like Ick. I've tried to get a picture
of the fish but I can't seem to get one that is clear enought. I went
down to the LFS and they recommend I pickup some Aquarisol
(http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...&N=2004+113521).
The instructions say to up the temperature in the tank to 85 degrees
and add 12 drops per 10 gallons daily until the Ich is gone. I
removed the filter cartridge and put in one that didn't have carbon in
it. I have a Marineland Visi-Therm Stealth 100 heater and I moved the
dial to 86 degrees but the temperature of the tank will not go above
82 degrees, even after several days. I even tried moving the dial to
88 degrees but still no change. I've been treating the tank with the
Aquarisol for the past three days. I did a 25% water change the
second day and added the Aquarisol after that. Over the past 5 days,
the tank has been cloudy too. I'm thinking that might be a bacteria
bloom because I added alot of fish at once.

I've already had 2 of the bleeding hearts die, one yesterday and
another one this morning. The barbs and the catfish are not showing
any white spots on there body or fins, just the bleeding hearts. I
would move the other fish to a different tank, but the only other tank
I have is an unheated 5 gallon.

Does this sound like Ick?

Would need a picture. Ich is small white dots. Probably is, as it's the
most common ailment fish catch.

Am I doing everything properly to clear it
up and hopefully save my fish?

Quarantine is what is (was) needed to keep your fish well. The store
fish are more at risk as they are less hardy due to the transit and water
shock. Their weakness may allow any diseases to grow stronger, putting
your fish at greater risk.

Aquarisol is not particularly strong, and I've generally avoided it
because I don't like copper-based medications. Having said that, follow
the directions, keep the water clean and you'll probably be fine. Ich is
really not hard to cure, unless there are other underlying problems
(check your ammonia, nitrite levels). Weak fish might sucumb to it.

Any ideas on why my heater will not go
above 82 degrees? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

I've encountered this as well, and it was not a pleasant surprise.
Apparently heaters which are adjustable to the high 80s are becoming
harder to find. Discus breeders complain about this too.

For your application, the elevated temperature would have accelerated the
Ich life cycle (which only has one stage vulnerable to the medication),
though if it was kept hot enough, I think you could kill the Ich
eventually without medication. The old-fashioned cure was heat, salt and
water changes.

Research the life cycle of this parasite (ie: 3 weeks) and other
techniques to combat it, and hopefully someone here will have experience
with Aquarisol and give you dosing instructions. In the absence of
guidelines, I would water change by gravel vac, dose, wait 2 days and
repeat for several cycles, but you need more Aquarisol-specific advice.
--
www.NetMax.tk

Rodney

Rodney M wrote:

snip
Does this sound like Ick? Am I doing everything properly to clear it
up and hopefully save my fish? Any ideas on why my heater will not go
above 82 degrees? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Yes, it sounds like ich. Aquarisol is very hard to use. If I were
you, I'd do two big water changes to get rid of the copper and switch
to something simpler like 1/2 strength Quick Cure.

My Visitherm Stealth goes to 86F without a problem. Heat above 85F
often kills ich, or at least speeds up ts lifecycle so it's more
vulnerable to medications. You may not have enough wattage if your
house is really cold.

Rodney M wrote:

Any ideas on why my heater will not go
above 82 degrees?


The higher the difference in temperature between your tank and the room
it's in, the faster it loses heat. So, to maintain a high temperature,
your heater will spend more time on than it does for a lower
temperature. When it's on all the time, that's the highest temperature
you'll be able to get. Unless you wrap your tank in a blanket, or put in
a more powerful heater.

--

Pete Becker
Dinkumware, Ltd. (http://www.dinkumware.com)

When it's on all the time, that's the highest temperature
you'll be able to get. Unless you wrap your tank in a blanket, or put in a
more powerful heater.

--

Pete Becker
Dinkumware, Ltd. (http://www.dinkumware.com)

Or increase the temperature of your room!

I beleive your heater problems have been answered. But as for your ich
problems, I would be carefull with too much salt with catfish. Also I
cannot stress the importance of good water quality, you may have to do
daily 20% water changes (with proper conditioners). Good bio filtration
is a must, but this takes time. Seeding your tank with aged gravel from
a friend or an aged sponge filter (they work great) can also help. I
have used "medicated wonder shells' for years on my aquarium
maintenance route with excellent results (they also help with cloudy
water, but do not replace good water quality management). You can
obtain them at
http://americanaquariumproducts.com/...mProducts.html
Carl

wrote in message
oups.com...
I beleive your heater problems have been answered. But as for your ich
problems, I would be carefull with too much salt with catfish. Also I
cannot stress the importance of good water quality, you may have to do
daily 20% water changes (with proper conditioners). Good bio filtration
is a must, but this takes time. Seeding your tank with aged gravel from
a friend or an aged sponge filter (they work great) can also help. I
have used "medicated wonder shells' for years on my aquarium
maintenance route with excellent results (they also help with cloudy
water, but do not replace good water quality management). You can
obtain them at
http://americanaquariumproducts.com/...mProducts.html
Carl


I've seen this web site. These are your own product, aren't they? I
understand the time release functionality you are trying to get, but it's
not clear what else is in there or how it works. Clever to design
something which reduces your visits.
--
www.NetMax.tk

Yes this is a product that I designed (and have refined over time) over
15 years ago. I do not show all ingredients as I do want it to be too
easy to copy. I have had excellent results not only because of less
visits, but more importantly, more steady medicine levels.
Carl

wrote in message
oups.com...
Yes this is a product that I designed (and have refined over time) over
15 years ago. I do not show all ingredients as I do want it to be too
easy to copy. I have had excellent results not only because of less
visits, but more importantly, more steady medicine levels.
Carl


I'm sure you mean "You do *not* want it to be too easy to copy. Can you
sell a product with no ingredients labelling? I understand that products
for fish don't require too much scrutiny or even testing (at least in
North America), but some ingredients and binders must be declared.
California is quite particular about malachite green, and I'd expect
antibiotics to require some regulation and identification.

It's an interesting conundrum, where you can't reveal details without
risking trade infringement, but need the details to sell the product. I
don't envy your situation. Credibility cannot be established through the
normal means of existing scientific data on the individual ingredients.
A possible scenario is to publish the active ingredients and kept
proprietary items such as the binders and the process a secret.
Alternately some type of a controlled test program documenting the
results with & without, but this requires scientific rigour, expertise
and expense.

A suggestion - since the time release component is still a compelling
feature, perhaps you should invent a 'fertilizing wonder shell'. Time
release fertilization would be a great feature (no more PMDD), and since
it's not involved in the health of fish, and would contain no potentially
harmful ingredients, the product would face far less public scrutiny and
there should be less issues with labelling, cross-state transport, export
documents etc. From a legislative perspective, it's fertilizer (poop
;~), from an aquarist's perspective, it could be a precise mix of
various macro and trace elements time-released with a binder which
buffers the water's carbonates.
--
www.NetMax.tk

We do state the active ingredients on our web site and other
information we have published over the years. We just do not show the
binders. As for malachite green, (and a Californian for 43 years) they
have many carcinogenic issues with the product which have yet to be
proven. California has many problems banning fish (such as the piranah)
and medications without any real evidence. Chloramphenical is an
example of an excellent antibiotic banned in the pet industry without
much evidence.
Carl