Covering Pond for Winter

On 21 Jun 2004 14:58:39 -0700, (MC) wrote:

What are the pros and cons of lean to versus a solar type surface cover?

wrote in message ...
I am in zone 5, Milwaukee north of you and to keep the pond clear of ice all winter
is cover it with a plastic lean to and run an airstone and/or a pump. The freezing
does not actually get that deep. That is how deep it has been recorded, probably
during the "little ice age" and no snow cover or out in the middle of a farmers
field. this is the depth used for burying people so their coffins dont get heaved
out of the ground by frost.
all summer long my pond heats the surrounding soil. the 1.5 feet sticks up out of
the ground is insulated.
in any case, 500 watts did 1600 gallons kept water at or above 50o all but one month
this last winter. Ingrid

(MC) wrote:
I believe the frostline in Chicago is 36" meaning that the ground
freezes up to 36 below ground. In zone 7 I could see the ground
staying 55 degrees, but not here.


Ice thickness is not the same as frozen ground because the water can
move. Warm water from the bottom (yes, it is warmer there) circulates
to the top. The soil cannot do that so the frost goes deeper and
deeper.

I live in zone 5 and this past winter was the coldest in 30 years.
Ground frost was 4 feet deep in exposed areas. My 3 feet deep pond
had a maximum of 18 inches of ice on it.

John

I must have an old catalog - no heaters on p. 361. Do you know the
brand? I am seeing a lot of glass aquarium type heaters which I would
think wouldn't be safe in a pond. With the metal heaters, how do you
keep it from burning the liner?

wrote in message ...
p. 361 of aquatic ecosystems catalog, $44 and extra 30 for the controller. but they
got titanium that are cheaper. mine has a separate temperature probe and the heater
is covered to prevent it from getting hit or melting liner down. people in warmer
zones dont understand that our ponds drop below 50o (when koi's immune system goes
down and feeding stops) sometime mid october in zone 5 and doesnt rise over 50o until
mid april. that is 6 months of no immunity and 6 months of no food. it is VERY VERY
hard on koi. you can always order some kind of pool from aquatic ecosystem, or,
build a stud wall pond in the basement and line that with permalon. Ingrid

(MC) wrote:
What kind of heater are you using? I've heard of people using trough
heaters and there seems to be several kinds of pond heaters. I only
have 500 gallons in Chicago.

It is early, but my first year I lost all my Koi (used a bubbler to
keep hole open). Last winter, I brought them inside. They are now kind
of big to bring inside. I am trying to plan ahead. If I need to bring
them inside this winter, I need to buy a kiddie pool and you can't
find them in the winter in Chicago.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

On 8 Jul 2004 09:16:19 -0700, (MC) wrote:

I must have an old catalog - no heaters on p. 361. Do you know the
brand? I am seeing a lot of glass aquarium type heaters which I would
think wouldn't be safe in a pond. With the metal heaters, how do you
keep it from burning the liner?

wrote in message ...
p. 361 of aquatic ecosystems catalog, $44 and extra 30 for the controller. but they
got titanium that are cheaper. mine has a separate temperature probe and the heater
is covered to prevent it from getting hit or melting liner down. people in warmer
zones dont understand that our ponds drop below 50o (when koi's immune system goes
down and feeding stops) sometime mid october in zone 5 and doesnt rise over 50o until
mid april. that is 6 months of no immunity and 6 months of no food. it is VERY VERY
hard on koi. you can always order some kind of pool from aquatic ecosystem, or,
build a stud wall pond in the basement and line that with permalon. Ingrid

(MC) wrote:
What kind of heater are you using? I've heard of people using trough
heaters and there seems to be several kinds of pond heaters. I only
have 500 gallons in Chicago.

It is early, but my first year I lost all my Koi (used a bubbler to
keep hole open). Last winter, I brought them inside. They are now kind
of big to bring inside. I am trying to plan ahead. If I need to bring
them inside this winter, I need to buy a kiddie pool and you can't
find them in the winter in Chicago.


I do not know your situation but I am in New Hampshire. Last winter
was one of the worst on record for low temps and high winds. My pond
is 40" deep. I kept a bubbler going (had to break ice open a few
times) and that was it. We started the winter with 1 koi, 3 goldfish
and 8 goldfish fry. We lost only 2 of the fry.

John

uncovered glass wouldnt survive in a pond with koi I dont think. the one I got has a
cage around it. the 500w is VT500 ($44) and the controller is VT500T ($30)

the JH500 titanium heater could be hung from something to prevent it from hitting the
liner. or, hung in a bucket. Ingrid

(MC) wrote:

I must have an old catalog - no heaters on p. 361. Do you know the
brand? I am seeing a lot of glass aquarium type heaters which I would
think wouldn't be safe in a pond. With the metal heaters, how do you
keep it from burning the liner?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Thanks for the model info. I notice the controller works from 20-34C.
20C is 68F, so does that mean it is always on in the winter since I
doubt your pond reaches 68 in WI?

wrote in message ...
uncovered glass wouldnt survive in a pond with koi I dont think. the one I got has a
cage around it. the 500w is VT500 ($44) and the controller is VT500T ($30)

the JH500 titanium heater could be hung from something to prevent it from hitting the
liner. or, hung in a bucket. Ingrid

(MC) wrote:

I must have an old catalog - no heaters on p. 361. Do you know the
brand? I am seeing a lot of glass aquarium type heaters which I would
think wouldn't be safe in a pond. With the metal heaters, how do you
keep it from burning the liner?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

"dkat" wrote in message et...
I'm responding to the Subject header

wrote in message
...
p. 361 of aquatic ecosystems catalog, $44 and extra 30 for the controller.

(MC) wrote:
What kind of heater are you using?

Strange, your newreader managed to quote the previous artcle. Hmm. I
suspect it is more a matter of your newsreader software settings than
your news service. As you may be able to tell I use google groups for
posting. That way I can post from home or work and not have to do odd
things with my newsreader. And the posts will be there forever.
"For certain values of forever"
--
Crashj

uhhh.. really? I guess so. Just looked at it. had it turned to 22oC. Ingrid

(MC) wrote:

Thanks for the model info. I notice the controller works from 20-34C.
20C is 68F, so does that mean it is always on in the winter since I
doubt your pond reaches 68 in WI?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

I was also wondering, if you need a 500W heater, does it make more
sense to buy 2 250W heaters? Then, if one goes out, you at least have
some heat. It seems like that would maybe be safer.

(MC) wrote in message . com...
Thanks for the model info. I notice the controller works from 20-34C.
20C is 68F, so does that mean it is always on in the winter since I
doubt your pond reaches 68 in WI?

wrote in message ...
uncovered glass wouldnt survive in a pond with koi I dont think. the one I got has a
cage around it. the 500w is VT500 ($44) and the controller is VT500T ($30)

the JH500 titanium heater could be hung from something to prevent it from hitting the
liner. or, hung in a bucket. Ingrid

(MC) wrote:

I must have an old catalog - no heaters on p. 361. Do you know the
brand? I am seeing a lot of glass aquarium type heaters which I would
think wouldn't be safe in a pond. With the metal heaters, how do you
keep it from burning the liner?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

sure. it is recommended for aquariums to use a couple small ones so if one goes
whacko it cant boil the fish. Ingrid

(MC) wrote:

I was also wondering, if you need a 500W heater, does it make more
sense to buy 2 250W heaters? Then, if one goes out, you at least have
some heat. It seems like that would maybe be safer.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Michael,
You could check out the wholesale to the public website
www.bestpondstuff.com
for wholesale prices on pond covers and heaters.
www.backyard-lifestyle.com is another valuable place to look.
Norman

On 8 Jul 2004 09:16:19 -0700, (MC) wrote:

I must have an old catalog - no heaters on p. 361. Do you know the
brand? I am seeing a lot of glass aquarium type heaters which I would
think wouldn't be safe in a pond. With the metal heaters, how do you
keep it from burning the liner?

wrote in message ...
p. 361 of aquatic ecosystems catalog, $44 and extra 30 for the controller. but they
got titanium that are cheaper. mine has a separate temperature probe and the heater
is covered to prevent it from getting hit or melting liner down. people in warmer
zones dont understand that our ponds drop below 50o (when koi's immune system goes
down and feeding stops) sometime mid october in zone 5 and doesnt rise over 50o until
mid april. that is 6 months of no immunity and 6 months of no food. it is VERY VERY
hard on koi. you can always order some kind of pool from aquatic ecosystem, or,
build a stud wall pond in the basement and line that with permalon. Ingrid

(MC) wrote:
What kind of heater are you using? I've heard of people using trough
heaters and there seems to be several kinds of pond heaters. I only
have 500 gallons in Chicago.

It is early, but my first year I lost all my Koi (used a bubbler to
keep hole open). Last winter, I brought them inside. They are now kind
of big to bring inside. I am trying to plan ahead. If I need to bring
them inside this winter, I need to buy a kiddie pool and you can't
find them in the winter in Chicago.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.