Internal Filter for Goldfish

Moments before spontaneously combusting Jolly Fisherman at
was heard opining:

On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 18:50:13 -0600, "Koi-Lo"
wrote:

Those are truly adult fish then. Probably retired breeders.
Nothing wrong with that.

About how old do you think these might be?
===============================
At 10" for an Oranda you're talking about a GF several years old at least.
It takes my Shubunkins about 4 years to reach that size. I assume you mean
overall size including the tail. Some fish, like some people grow faster
than others and reach a larger mature adult size. I have some older GF that
are only 6 or 7" long. They're as individual as people are.

My concern would be would a fish that old adapt to life in a tank... most
of these fish are raised outdoors in large ponds or growing vats. These
would be very different conditions.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

wrote:

internal filters do not properly aerate the biobugs and lead to anaerobic conditions.
they are not easy to clean, not like slipping the whisper filter bag and sponge out,
rinse it off and put it back.

I'd consider the internal foam filters equivalent to the "classic"
biofilter - the undergravel filter. Advantages of the foam would be
EASIER cleaning w.r.t. under gravel (remove from tank, squeeze out in a
bucket of tank water, replace in tank), if you run two of them they can
be individually replaced, and they can be broken in on an established
aquarium then placed on a new tank to avoid the "cycle".

Aeration of the biobugs occurs through flow of fresh tank water. The
only "better" aerated media would be Bio-wheel or other wet-dry types,
as mentioned by another poster.

Moments before spontaneously combusting Jolly Fisherman at
was heard opining:


According to other threads one has to be careful to not buy a mildew
resistant or fire retardant stuffing.
http://snipurl.com/nqkd
=====================
The plain cheap batting has neither. Read the bag before you purchase it.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

it has to do with how thick that sponge is. the thicker the less likely there will
be enough oxygen. with those thick round sponges in the tank there is no reason to
expect that oxygen ever gets to the inside. it is the same with under gravel filters
that channelize and then oxygen does not get to all the gravel underneath and
anaerobic conditions get going. Ingrid

Jolly Fisherman wrote:
Well this is the point that stumps me. They are all seem to be based
on the same premise of drawing basically equally oxygenated water
through similar spongy or fibrous materials.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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absolutely... http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/c...AVITY%20FILTER
Ingrid

Jolly Fisherman wrote:
Ostensibly one needs a
wet/dry trickle type filter to get significantly superior oxygenation.


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Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.

On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 17:22:15 GMT, wrote:

it has to do with how thick that sponge is. the thicker the less likely there will
be enough oxygen. with those thick round sponges in the tank there is no reason to
expect that oxygen ever gets to the inside. it is the same with under gravel filters
that channelize and then oxygen does not get to all the gravel underneath and
anaerobic conditions get going. Ingrid

Ok that makes sense to me.

Yesterday I got very excited about the Eheim Aquaballs. They look
like they have the flexibility and advantages of a full-fledged
canister. But it looks to me like the water flow design throws a lot
of that away IMHO.

Right now I'm going to experiment with a Whisper® In-Tank PF-40i. Not
thrilled about it - but to my eye it looks a lot like an external
whisper.

Thanks for you and everyone's help & expertise to analyze this.

On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 17:22:15 GMT, wrote:

it has to do with how thick that sponge is. the thicker the less likely there will
be enough oxygen. with those thick round sponges in the tank there is no reason to
expect that oxygen ever gets to the inside. it is the same with under gravel filters
that channelize and then oxygen does not get to all the gravel underneath and
anaerobic conditions get going. Ingrid

Does that mean that oxygenation is also insufficient for multistage
canisters? Esp when the Bio media is after a few layers of sponges,
etc? Or is it the case that water flow is so generous that it
compensates for the great thickness of all the media? I guess this is
an argument for limiting the use of mechanical filter media in such
canisters?

I could not resist offering my opinion on this topic. I have uses
dozens of styles and brands over the years in my aquarium maintenance
business in LA. I have to disagree about fluvals, they break down
easily, are poorly designed and overpriced. Via Aqua, Jebo, and Magnums
are all far superior canister filters. Also sponge filters when
properly maintained are excellent as low priced internal filters (they
are not as good in the mechanical filteration area). Via Aqua makes
some of the best internal power filters available. A good source for
Via Aqua (also sponge filters) is:
http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/

well I would think so, but the Goldfish Guru, Jo Ann Burke swears by fluvals so maybe
the force of the water pushes thru enough so that the biofilter gets enough oxygen.
Ingrid

Jolly Fisherman wrote:
Does that mean that oxygenation is also insufficient for multistage
canisters? Esp when the Bio media is after a few layers of sponges,
etc? Or is it the case that water flow is so generous that it
compensates for the great thickness of all the media? I guess this is
an argument for limiting the use of mechanical filter media in such
canisters?



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
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sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?...s=Group+lookup
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website.
I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.

Part of the Fluval design is the impellor, it is not large enough and
the housing is poorly designed causing them at the least to have poor
head pressure (needed for running UVs or other devices in line
http://aquariumuvsterilizer.blogspot.com/ ), and at worst total melt
down. They also do not have the bio capacity of many of their
competitors. My service route was one of the largest in LA (I sold of
most of it), and have used Fluvals and every other canister filter
imaginable. Sorry, if I am causing arguments, I just do no want to see
aquarists throw their money away. Fluvals can and do work, there are
just better options at better prices out there.
Carl