Future scenario for the home aquarium.

"Elaine T" wrote in message
t...
NetMax wrote:

snip
I think the bottom line with many of us, is that we like to tinker.
We walk by the tank, and make a note to do something, or just do it
(move a rock, clean some algae, feed the fish, replant something, pull
some dead leaves out, watch some new behaviour, check how the fry are
doing etc etc). The suggested scenario took away your ability to
tinker.

Let me give an analogy. What you suggest is rather like putting a few
dogs into a big, grassy field with some cameras. (Assume their needs
for shelter and running room are met.) You would feed and water them
daily and clean up as necessary, but that would be the extent of the
interaction. On your living room wall would be a projection of the
dogs so you can see them play, sleep and hang out. The dogs would be
perfectly fine and your chores would be lighter, but the setup is not
the same as having a pet dog at your feet.

I think most of us think of our fish as pets. You've mentioned feeding
your fish with automatic feeders so you see more of the natural
behavior. In contrast, I enjoy watching my angel fish doing his little
"wiggle dance" at the front of the tank when I come into the room. All
he's after is a handout, but the interaction is still fun. Think of
how popular Oscars are because of their pet-like qualities!

I absolutely totally agree mostly :~). There are interactive set-ups and
there are non-interactive set-ups. Fish fall into the category of 'pets'
for a variety of reasons, and some fall conveniently into 'hobby'.
Another subset is 'decoration', to have layers of colors and activity. I
wouldn't put 'pet' fish into a remote tank, as this would make no sense,
they are interactive. Some fish as 'hobby' I would, and many new
hobbyists would see the 'decoration' aspect first.

For example, I once stocked a planted 130g tank with about 9 types of
tetras (about 15 each iirc). I could watch this tank for hours (some
days I did, as it was 10 feet from my counter at the pet shop). Once
they realized there were no predators in the tank, they each assumed
either an inter-species 'gameplay' or a focused intent on doing something
else (what - I could only guess). They broke into groups 6-12, barrelled
through other less-organised groups, then broke into smaller formations,
cheat-shoaled with other species (teenagers!), established alpha status
and minor pecking order (top 2 or 3) and danced around each other
(inter-species and not). The point is that it was really fun to watch.
Then a customer would walk over, and once they were about 5-6 feet from
the tank, all the animation would come to a stop, and the fish would go
into people-mode; hide, freeze, beg for food or slowly drift into the
background, and the customer would coo "what a pretty tank", oblivious to
the fact that they were only seeing a fraction of the potential
entertainment value. This is what many hobbyists see, their fish's
people-mode (which with some fish is frankly, predictable, dull &
repetitive, and Elaine knows that I'm taking a devil's advocate position
to this argument, so please don't anyone else flame me). Some of the
best enjoyment comes from undetected observation, particularly 'hobby'
fish, imho.

This is why I can't *totally* agree with you. There are too many reasons
to be in the hobby, like the fellow who could tell me the sci.name of
every plant in his tanks, but when asked what kind of fish he had, he
replied "some blue ones and some red ones" ;~). A remote tank might fill
a market niche if only to address some of the existing constraints
associated with larger tanks.

.... gotta go now, I need to look up the word 'tripe' ;~)
--
www.NetMax.tk

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

NetMax wrote:
"Elaine T" wrote in message
t...

NetMax wrote:

snip

I think the bottom line with many of us, is that we like to tinker.
We walk by the tank, and make a note to do something, or just do it
(move a rock, clean some algae, feed the fish, replant something, pull
some dead leaves out, watch some new behaviour, check how the fry are
doing etc etc). The suggested scenario took away your ability to
tinker.

Let me give an analogy. What you suggest is rather like putting a few
dogs into a big, grassy field with some cameras. (Assume their needs
for shelter and running room are met.) You would feed and water them
daily and clean up as necessary, but that would be the extent of the
interaction. On your living room wall would be a projection of the
dogs so you can see them play, sleep and hang out. The dogs would be
perfectly fine and your chores would be lighter, but the setup is not
the same as having a pet dog at your feet.

I think most of us think of our fish as pets. You've mentioned feeding
your fish with automatic feeders so you see more of the natural
behavior. In contrast, I enjoy watching my angel fish doing his little
"wiggle dance" at the front of the tank when I come into the room. All
he's after is a handout, but the interaction is still fun. Think of
how popular Oscars are because of their pet-like qualities!


I absolutely totally agree mostly :~). There are interactive set-ups and
there are non-interactive set-ups. Fish fall into the category of 'pets'
for a variety of reasons, and some fall conveniently into 'hobby'.
Another subset is 'decoration', to have layers of colors and activity. I
wouldn't put 'pet' fish into a remote tank, as this would make no sense,
they are interactive. Some fish as 'hobby' I would, and many new
hobbyists would see the 'decoration' aspect first.

For example, I once stocked a planted 130g tank with about 9 types of
tetras (about 15 each iirc). I could watch this tank for hours (some
days I did, as it was 10 feet from my counter at the pet shop). Once
they realized there were no predators in the tank, they each assumed
either an inter-species 'gameplay' or a focused intent on doing something
else (what - I could only guess). They broke into groups 6-12, barrelled
through other less-organised groups, then broke into smaller formations,
cheat-shoaled with other species (teenagers!), established alpha status
and minor pecking order (top 2 or 3) and danced around each other
(inter-species and not). The point is that it was really fun to watch.
Then a customer would walk over, and once they were about 5-6 feet from
the tank, all the animation would come to a stop, and the fish would go
into people-mode; hide, freeze, beg for food or slowly drift into the
background, and the customer would coo "what a pretty tank", oblivious to
the fact that they were only seeing a fraction of the potential
entertainment value. This is what many hobbyists see, their fish's
people-mode (which with some fish is frankly, predictable, dull &
repetitive, and Elaine knows that I'm taking a devil's advocate position
to this argument, so please don't anyone else flame me). Some of the
best enjoyment comes from undetected observation, particularly 'hobby'
fish, imho.

This is why I can't *totally* agree with you. There are too many reasons
to be in the hobby, like the fellow who could tell me the sci.name of
every plant in his tanks, but when asked what kind of fish he had, he
replied "some blue ones and some red ones" ;~). A remote tank might fill
a market niche if only to address some of the existing constraints
associated with larger tanks.

... gotta go now, I need to look up the word 'tripe' ;~)

To save you the effort it is cows stomach...in the past fed to dogs and
people of restricted means...it is a particularly nasy product, white
with lots of nodules, but high in nutritional value - I remember people
feeding it to their pets (fortunately not their kids although it did
happen and I'm sure that my parents will remember eating it from times
of rationing in the 2WW) - nowadays when hopefully the majority have
better nutrition so it means "rubbish" or "waste"...

My joy in this hobby as you quite rightly mention, does happen with some
people, is the pleasure in watching my fish and their interactions with
me and with themselves....a pretty tank, ornamental feature as a goal is
also very, very common...I see them as my pets, my tanks are very
transient as I try to achieve the perfect environment...never achievable
hence the constant fiddling and changes...but I would hazard a guess
that most people who bother enough to subscribe to newsgroups/forums do
the same...for all of us doing this there are thousands of people out
there who either know what to do or just think of tanks of fish as
something that looks great in their living room (and don't get me wrong
if the fish are healthy and well cared for there is nothing wrong with
this)...but if they die the attitude is "buy more" - not a difficult
concept in our consumer society....soapbox warning

Until fish are seen as more than decorations we will never get the
quality of service and livestock that we deserve. Futhermore, our pets,
the fish, will suffer from neglect and harm not only from their ultimate
owners but the retailers and wholesalers

Your idea is great and fantastic if it provides a virtual reality tank
for those that just want the concept and decorative value of
fish...maybe this is the market (and I do know you chastised me for
considering you were selling - a slight net problem - I didn't mean
commercially I meant the concept/idea). And if it moves us away from
people who see fish as mere designer objects with no care for their well
being, then I'm sorry, so much the better.

Now, maybe the "would be fish owners who can't be arsed to do the work"
would really be better off with their virtual tanks....can see a market
for this just as you describe...but someone still has to be in there
doing the work....if I'm doing the work I want to see the real thing not
something fed to me on a screen...

Climbing off the box and I know that you know it isn't personal and just
a "Gill rant" g

Gill

"Gill Passman" wrote in message
.. .
NetMax wrote:
"Elaine T" wrote in message
t...
snip

My joy in this hobby as you quite rightly mention, does happen with
some people, is the pleasure in watching my fish and their interactions
with me and with themselves....a pretty tank, ornamental feature as a
goal is also very, very common...I see them as my pets, my tanks are
very transient as I try to achieve the perfect environment...never
achievable hence the constant fiddling and changes...but I would hazard
a guess that most people who bother enough to subscribe to
newsgroups/forums do the same...for all of us doing this there are
thousands of people out there who either know what to do or just think
of tanks of fish as something that looks great in their living room
(and don't get me wrong if the fish are healthy and well cared for
there is nothing wrong with this)...but if they die the attitude is
"buy more" - not a difficult concept in our consumer society....soapbox
warning

Until fish are seen as more than decorations we will never get the
quality of service and livestock that we deserve. Futhermore, our pets,
the fish, will suffer from neglect and harm not only from their
ultimate owners but the retailers and wholesalers

Elevating the respect level for our aquatic pets is definitely an
important goal for most parts of the world. Europe seems to have a
better grip on this.

Your idea is great and fantastic if it provides a virtual reality tank
for those that just want the concept and decorative value of
fish...maybe this is the market (and I do know you chastised me for
considering you were selling - a slight net problem - I didn't mean
commercially I meant the concept/idea). And if it moves us away from
people who see fish as mere designer objects with no care for their
well being, then I'm sorry, so much the better.

Sorry on the 'net' problem. I'm glad to see it rolled off. This 'future
scenario' was really just something that occured to me. Not really
thought out, just pondering on how our living room entertainment might
all converge in the future. It was floated here for 'brain-storming',
and I wouldn't take insult if everyone found flaws in it. As a designer,
I'm accustomed to the majority of my ideas being bad, impractical or
otherwise unworkable. From an engineering perspective, this 'scenario'
offered some unconventional solutions for some conventional problems.

Now, maybe the "would be fish owners who can't be arsed to do the work"
would really be better off with their virtual tanks....can see a market
for this just as you describe...but someone still has to be in there
doing the work....if I'm doing the work I want to see the real thing
not something fed to me on a screen...

The already exists non-commercial web cam broadcasts of the inside of
aquariums. While this angle was also in my head peripherally, I didn't
include it, as we are primarily 'real' hobbyists here, not part-time
users who would have an aquarium projected on their wall when they have
company over. We are the people who actually have the tanks, so if I'm
not considering this from a commercial perspective (which I'm not), then
the concept's merits should be judged by real hobbyists. However, you do
bring up an interesting angle. If it was a commercial broadcast, then
places which cannot have a real aquarium (ie: airplane flights), or
places where aquarium care is a challenge (retirement homes, restaurents,
hospitals etc) might get some benefit. Another market is the people you
mentioned who have no interest in learning the proper care, and for them,
the broadcasts might save a few fish!
--
www.NetMax.tk

Climbing off the box and I know that you know it isn't personal and
just a "Gill rant" g

Gill

NetMax wrote:
"Elaine T" wrote in message
t...

NetMax wrote:

snip

I think the bottom line with many of us, is that we like to tinker.
We walk by the tank, and make a note to do something, or just do it
(move a rock, clean some algae, feed the fish, replant something, pull
some dead leaves out, watch some new behaviour, check how the fry are
doing etc etc). The suggested scenario took away your ability to
tinker.

Let me give an analogy. What you suggest is rather like putting a few
dogs into a big, grassy field with some cameras. (Assume their needs
for shelter and running room are met.) You would feed and water them
daily and clean up as necessary, but that would be the extent of the
interaction. On your living room wall would be a projection of the
dogs so you can see them play, sleep and hang out. The dogs would be
perfectly fine and your chores would be lighter, but the setup is not
the same as having a pet dog at your feet.

I think most of us think of our fish as pets. You've mentioned feeding
your fish with automatic feeders so you see more of the natural
behavior. In contrast, I enjoy watching my angel fish doing his little
"wiggle dance" at the front of the tank when I come into the room. All
he's after is a handout, but the interaction is still fun. Think of
how popular Oscars are because of their pet-like qualities!


I absolutely totally agree mostly :~). There are interactive set-ups and
there are non-interactive set-ups. Fish fall into the category of 'pets'
for a variety of reasons, and some fall conveniently into 'hobby'.
Another subset is 'decoration', to have layers of colors and activity. I
wouldn't put 'pet' fish into a remote tank, as this would make no sense,
they are interactive. Some fish as 'hobby' I would, and many new
hobbyists would see the 'decoration' aspect first.

For example, I once stocked a planted 130g tank with about 9 types of
tetras (about 15 each iirc). I could watch this tank for hours (some
days I did, as it was 10 feet from my counter at the pet shop). Once
they realized there were no predators in the tank, they each assumed
either an inter-species 'gameplay' or a focused intent on doing something
else (what - I could only guess). They broke into groups 6-12, barrelled
through other less-organised groups, then broke into smaller formations,
cheat-shoaled with other species (teenagers!), established alpha status
and minor pecking order (top 2 or 3) and danced around each other
(inter-species and not). The point is that it was really fun to watch.
Then a customer would walk over, and once they were about 5-6 feet from
the tank, all the animation would come to a stop, and the fish would go
into people-mode; hide, freeze, beg for food or slowly drift into the
background, and the customer would coo "what a pretty tank", oblivious to
the fact that they were only seeing a fraction of the potential
entertainment value. This is what many hobbyists see, their fish's
people-mode (which with some fish is frankly, predictable, dull &
repetitive, and Elaine knows that I'm taking a devil's advocate position
to this argument, so please don't anyone else flame me). Some of the
best enjoyment comes from undetected observation, particularly 'hobby'
fish, imho.

This is why I can't *totally* agree with you. There are too many reasons
to be in the hobby, like the fellow who could tell me the sci.name of
every plant in his tanks, but when asked what kind of fish he had, he
replied "some blue ones and some red ones" ;~). A remote tank might fill
a market niche if only to address some of the existing constraints
associated with larger tanks.

... gotta go now, I need to look up the word 'tripe' ;~)

You have a good point. However, I learned a long time ago to walk into
the room with a tank and sit quietly. Fish soon forget you're there.
I've seen all sorts of interesting behaviors doing this. Unfortunately,
sitting can be time consuming.

Maybe the thing to build would be a waterproof, remote controlled camera
designed for conventional aquaria. It could hook up to anything with a
video input. A fishkeeper could put the fish on TV or a projecter when
they want to see them without a person in the room, or walk over to the
conventional fishtank to interact with the fish.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

"Elaine T" wrote in message
et...
NetMax wrote:
"Elaine T" wrote in message
t...

NetMax wrote:

snip

I think the bottom line with many of us, is that we like to tinker.
We walk by the tank, and make a note to do something, or just do it
(move a rock, clean some algae, feed the fish, replant something,
pull some dead leaves out, watch some new behaviour, check how the
fry are doing etc etc). The suggested scenario took away your
ability to tinker.

Let me give an analogy. What you suggest is rather like putting a few
dogs into a big, grassy field with some cameras. (Assume their needs
for shelter and running room are met.) You would feed and water them
daily and clean up as necessary, but that would be the extent of the
interaction. On your living room wall would be a projection of the
dogs so you can see them play, sleep and hang out. The dogs would be
perfectly fine and your chores would be lighter, but the setup is not
the same as having a pet dog at your feet.

I think most of us think of our fish as pets. You've mentioned
feeding your fish with automatic feeders so you see more of the
natural behavior. In contrast, I enjoy watching my angel fish doing
his little "wiggle dance" at the front of the tank when I come into
the room. All he's after is a handout, but the interaction is still
fun. Think of how popular Oscars are because of their pet-like
qualities!


I absolutely totally agree mostly :~). There are interactive set-ups
and there are non-interactive set-ups. Fish fall into the category of
'pets' for a variety of reasons, and some fall conveniently into
'hobby'. Another subset is 'decoration', to have layers of colors and
activity. I wouldn't put 'pet' fish into a remote tank, as this would
make no sense, they are interactive. Some fish as 'hobby' I would,
and many new hobbyists would see the 'decoration' aspect first.

For example, I once stocked a planted 130g tank with about 9 types of
tetras (about 15 each iirc). I could watch this tank for hours (some
days I did, as it was 10 feet from my counter at the pet shop). Once
they realized there were no predators in the tank, they each assumed
either an inter-species 'gameplay' or a focused intent on doing
something else (what - I could only guess). They broke into groups
6-12, barrelled through other less-organised groups, then broke into
smaller formations, cheat-shoaled with other species (teenagers!),
established alpha status and minor pecking order (top 2 or 3) and
danced around each other (inter-species and not). The point is that
it was really fun to watch. Then a customer would walk over, and once
they were about 5-6 feet from the tank, all the animation would come
to a stop, and the fish would go into people-mode; hide, freeze, beg
for food or slowly drift into the background, and the customer would
coo "what a pretty tank", oblivious to the fact that they were only
seeing a fraction of the potential entertainment value. This is what
many hobbyists see, their fish's people-mode (which with some fish is
frankly, predictable, dull & repetitive, and Elaine knows that I'm
taking a devil's advocate position to this argument, so please don't
anyone else flame me). Some of the best enjoyment comes from
undetected observation, particularly 'hobby' fish, imho.

This is why I can't *totally* agree with you. There are too many
reasons to be in the hobby, like the fellow who could tell me the
sci.name of every plant in his tanks, but when asked what kind of fish
he had, he replied "some blue ones and some red ones" ;~). A remote
tank might fill a market niche if only to address some of the existing
constraints associated with larger tanks.

... gotta go now, I need to look up the word 'tripe' ;~)

You have a good point. However, I learned a long time ago to walk into
the room with a tank and sit quietly. Fish soon forget you're there.
I've seen all sorts of interesting behaviors doing this.
Unfortunately, sitting can be time consuming.

Maybe the thing to build would be a waterproof, remote controlled
camera designed for conventional aquaria. It could hook up to anything
with a video input. A fishkeeper could put the fish on TV or a
projecter when they want to see them without a person in the room, or
walk over to the conventional fishtank to interact with the fish.

--
Elaine T __


Good idea. My ideal fishroom would be wall to ceiling, wall to wall
tanks in the den (den = finished basement, not root cellar ;~), so
projecting some to another room would be very interesting, especially if
the projection was of a quality that a casual observer would think it was
a built-in tank.

Incidentally, DAS already has my aquariums ready (4 foot tanks, stacked 3
high for 60g and two high for 100g, and the 60g are available in 4
configurations, twin 30g, triple 20g, single 60g or open plant tanks).
They are designed to fit wall to wall (with filler panels on the ends),
and come standard with drilled overflows for automated water change
systems. They are just waiting for me to show up with a cheque for
$150,000 ;~).

I wonder if I could buy them on a small business grant, incorporate,
write them off as capital losses and then quietly go bankrupt ;~).
--
www.NetMax.tk

"NetMax" wrote in message
...
For that I don't like it either, though I suspect most fish would prefer
it.

And I think some, like my goldfish, actually enjoy it. When my hands are in
the tank they're right there looking for any bit of edible stuff I may turn
up messing with the plants or gravel.

Generally speaking, messing in a tank too often is a bad thing.

Well there is a limit,.... several times a day can give you fingernail
fungus. :-(

Shadows and sudden movements can also be disconcerting. Most fish tend to
like nice quiet corners for a community setting.

Hummmm......... when I first put my bubble-eyes and lionheads in the tanks
near the hall they'd dash for cover when someone passed by. Now they dash
for the feeding corner when they see anyone coming or going down the hall
(passing their tanks). All that aside, I know there are fish that are shy
and nervous and wouldn't like such a location. Fish like those I would keep
off the beaten path through the house.

It's a good thing
they don't have a vote ;~), and besides, who knows what the future will
bring?

If my fish could vote I'm sure they'd vote to be near that small table with
their fish-food basket on it. All those packages of pellets, those yummy
algae wafers, those crisps, tasty freeze dried bloodworms, tubafex and
shrimp......
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
Aquariums: http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastada...ium-Page4.html
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

NetMax wrote:
A possible scenario for the evolution of the aquarium:

If we start by examining the constraints, I think the 4 biggest are the
purchase cost (people don't complain so much about the running costs),
the space (large footprint in prime real-estate in the house, and
difficult to move), the weight (we want bigger aquariums except for the
cost and the space it takes and eventually moving it), and finally the
maintenance (primarily cleaning algae off the front glass and water
changes). Does that sum it up adequately? Other possible constraints
are noise and water cooling (when needed).

If we look at the trends, despite the weight, cost & space, aquariums are
slowly getting larger, however this makes their best location to be
concrete (basement) away from prime viewing area (living room). Also
more money is being spent on them, and there are many more complex
features available (lighting, filtration, CO2, aquatic gardening going
more mainstream etc)

If a solution to the constraints existed, then the natural trend would
continue towards having larger & more complex aquariums, and I think I
have a solution ). I got the idea from a friend's home theatre system,
where one entire wall of the room was dedicated to the TV projection.

The aquarium becomes a large moulded tub sitting in a corner of the
basement, with an underwater camera controlled by joystick from the
living room (controlling x, y, z and focus).

1. Cost goes down (no glass, no manufacturing assembly, reduced shipping
cost (lightweight and stackable)).
2. Space is less critical, physically located in low-use area of the
house, 'beamed' to living room wall (also frees space upstairs for other
things).
3. Moving is relatively easy, drain and throw in the back of a van (not
fragile).
4. Weight is a non-issue (no floor reinforcement needed on concrete
floor).
5. Algae maintenance? (no glass to clean algae off of, camera could be
raised from water when not in use). Perhaps wipe the lens cover
periodically.
6. Filter maintenance (simplified as components do not need to be hidden
away).
7. Water changes (with external pumps/filters and less restriction on the
placement of supply/drain piping, water changes could be greatly
simplified, draining from below the gravel (gravel-vacuum) and refilling
through filter return lines).
8. Operation (filter/fan noise non-issue, cooling should be non-issue)
9. A bonus would be that the observed fish behaviour would be much more
natural (and interesting).

Problems
1) Feeding, unlike pond owners, aquarists like to watch the fish eat.
I'm assuming this will be an acceptable adaptation, evidenced by pond
folks always feeding from a top view.

2) Other tank maintenance (trimming plants, arranging rocks, driftwood
etc).
This is potentially the biggest constraint. I wouldn't want to hang
upside down in the middle of a tub to re-arrange the stuff inside. This
would be partly addressed by the tub being moulded into shapes, so much
of it would not be movable (tiers for planting, plugs for pushing
driftwood into, caves, rockwork etc might even be incorporated into the
mould). Another method would be to have a camera feed locally to a small
monitor. This would be acceptable, though a bit of a nuisance (though
I've worked on large tanks where I had to get out whenever I wanted to
see what I'd done, so a monitor would've been handy to have). A monitor
would also address the feeding issue (providing a side view on the
action).

Please note that I'm not selling this concept. I'm just putting
circumstances and emerging technology together in a particular
application. This will never replace the small counter tanks, only the
big 55g+ community tanks in our living rooms (which could now become
400-500g circular pre-moulded tubs). If nothing else, it would be
interesting to put 2 or 3 cameras in there, and have the inside of your
tub-aquarium projected on to 2 or 3 walls simultaneously.

could be very kewl )
--
www.NetMax.tk

What kinda stupid message is this? Did you write this tripe out of
boredom or you are a little off center? Nothing is ever going to change
as you predict. People will always have "normal" home aquariums. Yes
there are some people that go to extremes but the normal owner will
realize their litiations and have "normal" setups. Next time save your
predictions and do something more productive and constructive.......

In article .com,
Curt wrote:
What kinda stupid message is this? Did you write this tripe out of
boredom or you are a little off center? Nothing is ever going to change
as you predict. People will always have "normal" home aquariums. Yes
there are some people that go to extremes but the normal owner will
realize their litiations and have "normal" setups. Next time save your
predictions and do something more productive and constructive.......

It's always 4:19 somewhere isn't it?


--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

Curt wrote:
What kinda stupid message is this? Did you write this tripe out of
boredom or you are a little off center? Nothing is ever going to change
as you predict. People will always have "normal" home aquariums. Yes
there are some people that go to extremes but the normal owner will
realize their litiations and have "normal" setups. Next time save your
predictions and do something more productive and constructive.......


Why don't you post something productive and constructive yourself
instead of flaming one of our most active members? I've never seen you
post, and you obviously don't even lurk much.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com