beautiful baby koi....

This past spring our koi spawned for the first time. We had just cleaned
and refilled the pond so there wasn't much microscopic life for the babies
to live on - however about 10 did survive in the thickets of water plants on
the shelves. Of the 10 only one has poor coloring. The rest are golden
yellow, spotted, blue ...... I'm thrilled. :-)

Since feeding our koi and goldfish the catfish-food ($10 per 50 lbs) from
the local feed store they've grown like CRAZY! We mix it with about 30%
regular koi chow (small size) for the smaller fish in the ponds.
--
Carol.....
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that
we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic
and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."
- Theodore Roosevelt -
~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~

Congrats on your babies!
Do you know if it's ok to feed koi and goldfish CAT FOOD? Judi

it is not a good idea. cat food is cheap because it is made out of really cheap
ingredients, mostly grain. cat fish food, OTOH, is made to fatten them up fast cause
they are harvested in the first or second year so quality and the health of the fish
long term is not important.
our pet fish need higher quality higher protein and higher fat food for good health.
AND because we can feed so little of it and get fantastic growth. all food has
"bulk" or fiber that is not digested. cheap food has a great deal more of this that
high quality food. now the results of using cheap dog food is easily seen as much
bigger steaming piles of undigested matter (crap) compared to high quality food.
While those steaming piles may be spread out on a field or picked up, when fish are
crapping all that undigestible matter into the pond it just overloads the filter and
the fish have to swim in fouled water. Overfeeding even high quality food can do the
same thing.
the other issue is what GF and koi can digest. they have evolved to digest water
based food really well, mostly little animal critters with high protein, high fat,
low cellulose content. They dont digest carbohydrates well at all, so all that corn
and wheat in cheap food is in one end, out the other. So you can decide to feed high
quality food most of which is digested, feed very very little and dont foul the
water, or you can feed lots of the cheap food that does foul the water. Up to you.
Ingrid

(Judi9000) wrote:
Congrats on your babies!
Do you know if it's ok to feed koi and goldfish CAT FOOD? Judi



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Thanks for the info. I was just curious because birds fly off with pieces of
our dogs food and sometimes they drop it in my ponds. The fish seem to love it.
I also have a friend that knows someone who feeds his koi cat food. Is it ok to
sometimes give the fish dog or cat food or to avoid it altogether? Also my fish
love oranges and lemons. Judi

you want to give the fish a real treat.... but small cocktail type shrimp for em.
Ingrid

(Judi9000) wrote:

Thanks for the info. I was just curious because birds fly off with pieces of
our dogs food and sometimes they drop it in my ponds. The fish seem to love it.
I also have a friend that knows someone who feeds his koi cat food. Is it ok to
sometimes give the fish dog or cat food or to avoid it altogether? Also my fish
love oranges and lemons. Judi



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

You know, after reading your messages I decided to check out some other koi and
gf foods. I noticed that the first ingredient in all of them was wheat and the
second corn. What food do you use that doesn't have the grains as the first 2
ingredients? I also read somewhere that wheat germ based is best for the fish
when the temp.drops. Judi

Where do you get the cocktail shrimp? And is it bad for the fish to eat lemons
and oranges? It seems like this would be a real healthy treat for them with all
the vitamin C. Judi

"Judi9000" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the info. I was just curious because birds fly off with pieces
of
our dogs food and sometimes they drop it in my ponds. The fish seem to
love it.

## All I can tell you Judi is I'm feeding catfish food mixed with some
(around 30%, I'm not exact) more expensive koi/goldfish pellets and the
difference is AMAZING! They are not fat, they grew longer and their colors
are rich and beautiful. I see no need to spent $10 or $15 a lb for food
when they're thriving on the catfish/koi mix. This is the 3rd summer
they've been on this feeding regime and we haven't had one sick fish, or one
death.
The bottom of the pond has a thin coat of clean gravel where they koi
emptied a few plant pots. :-) There is no mulm or trash (poop and plant
matter) buildup since the filter return doesn't allow anything to "sit" on
the bottom and go sour. I don't seem to have the problem Ms Solo mentioned.

I also have a friend that knows someone who feeds his koi cat food. Is it
ok to
sometimes give the fish dog or cat food or to avoid it altogether? Also my
fish
love oranges and lemons. Judi

## I also have friends who own ponds and feed cat food as treats. One guy
gives his koi those soft-moist dog patties that look like worms
(Ganesburgers perhaps ?). His fish go insane for them! Everyone here is
feeding catfish food to their koi and goldfish. That's where I learned
about it. After seeing these ponds and the healthy fish, I switched. I
haven't heard of any problems whatsoever. Why pay $10+ a lb when you can
get a 50lb bag for the same money?

Let me add.... if you do feed catfish food you don't need to feed huge
amounts for them to grow rapidly and reproduce. :-)

--
Carol.....
Don't go for looks; they can deceive.
Don't go for wealth; even that fades away.
Go for someone who makes you smile,
because it takes only a smile to
make a dark day seem bright.
Find the one that makes your heart smile.
~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~

Cat fish food is for "food" fish, it is for quick growth so they get to market in
under 2 years. Food fish farmers dont care about the long term consequences of
feeding cheap foods. But my fish are pets, and I follow the recommendations of the
people who breed and raise koi for pets. They are every bit as eager to cut their
costs as the food fish producers, but obviously they are not finding it cost
effective to feed the cheap food to their koi. I prefer to follow the
recommendations of the experts when it comes to feeding my fish.
below is a reprint. Most people are overfeeding their fish which is both costly and
unhealthy for the fish. It isnt necessarily the total amount fed, but too much fed
at one time. Koi have very short intestines and the food is in and out quickly
(depending on water temp of course). Their normal feeding pattern is a little bit
all day long.

"Jo Ann and Steve got 77 koi in their big pond. they range from 5-20 lbs each
Steve gives them 2 pints of food per night (which weighs 16 oz), combination of Ogata
and Rangen. the RETAIL cost of feeding their monsters is:
6.5 cents per day per koi
45 cents per week per koi
23.63 bucks per year per koi cause they feed 365 days a year down there in Ala and
they heat their ponds. The koi are monsters and are still growing.

their 5 lb fish are around 18-22", so it averages out maybe to around 0.25 lbs per
inch for those big fish. a quick and dirty estimate of the average is they got 940
lbs of koi and feed 16 oz of food per day.

I am not sure how many koi I got. Lets say 25 koi from 6-14", I know they arent 0.25
lbs per inch, but lets say my 25 fish weigh in at 40 lbs. I should be feeding 1/24th
as much food as they do, or 2/3 of an ounce per day. Well, I think I feed more than
that cause I been feeding a bit less than 1/2 cup or around 1.2 oz of food per day.

Last year I bought
5 lbs of Rangen ($4/lb) $20.00
5 lbs of Ogata (5.50/lb) 27.50
5lbs of romet B ($4) 20.00
--------------------------------------------
67.50
I had Ogata left this spring been using it and will run out this week.
I have romet B left and I gave away at least half to people with sick fish.

I started feeding around April 15 when the water is above 55oF.
I quit feeding around Oct 8th. I didnt keep records on first and last feeding. But
this was around 25 weeks I fed the koi. Lets say 24 weeks cause I forget to feed
them every day. So 24 weeks X 7 days X 1.2 ounces per day = 201 ounces per year or
12.6 lbs. If I feed them according to Steve's rate, I should feed 110 ounces per
year or 6.9 lbs of food.
However, I feed 25 koi 12.6 lbs of food per year, average price is $5/lb or so comes
out to $2.50 per koi. Feeding at Steve's rate 6.9 lbs x $5 = 34.50 or $1.38 per koi
per year.
It doesnt add up right, I have more food left over so I may have missed more feedings
than I thought or not feed 1/2 cup. I dunno.
Yeah, that comes out to about 1/2 lb per year per fish.
High quality koi food is around $5 per lb.
High quality koi food has more digestible nutrition per ounce so I dont have to feed
as much and there is less waste coming out the other end to foul my water and foul my
filters. Anybody wanna feed catfish food to save a few bucks no skin off my nose.
I will feed my fish what experts like Brett feeds his." Ingrid


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

That's the same kind of dog food we feed our dog. The birds sometimes drop
pieces in the ponds and the fish LOVE IT!!! Thanks .