MTS out of control

Quite some time ago (a year or more) I was given a handful of Malaysian
Trumpet snails by a local fish store. I counted perhaps a hundred. Most
went into my heavily planted 20 gallon community tank, where they've
done quite well for themselves.

Quite well, indeed.

I estimate I now have several thousand, still in that same 20 gallon
tank. The tank, fish and plants are all quite healthy, and the MTS
certainly aren't hurting anything that I can see. But their population
is extremely out of control.

I can literally see my substrate (Flourite gravel) moving, almost
constantly. Especially in the hour or so before the lights go off. It
probably isn't an exaggeration to say that 1/5 of the volume of my
substrate is actually MTS.

A bit of web searching turns up clown loaches as the best 'natural'
approach to dealing with these snails. I don't expect that they could
wipe the population out, and for that matter, I don't want to wipe the
MTS out - just reduce their numbers a lot.

According to the sites I've read, clown loaches are apparently ok in a
community tank, and will grow fairly slowly.


--
Eric Schreiber
www.ericschreiber.com

Eric Schreiber wrote:

Quite some time ago (a year or more) I was given a handful of
Malaysian Trumpet snails by a local fish store. I counted perhaps a
hundred. Most went into my heavily planted 20 gallon community tank,
where they've done quite well for themselves.

Quite well, indeed.

I estimate I now have several thousand, still in that same 20 gallon
tank. The tank, fish and plants are all quite healthy, and the MTS
certainly aren't hurting anything that I can see. But their population
is extremely out of control.

I can literally see my substrate (Flourite gravel) moving, almost
constantly. Especially in the hour or so before the lights go off. It
probably isn't an exaggeration to say that 1/5 of the volume of my
substrate is actually MTS.

A bit of web searching turns up clown loaches as the best 'natural'
approach to dealing with these snails. I don't expect that they could
wipe the population out, and for that matter, I don't want to wipe the
MTS out - just reduce their numbers a lot.

According to the sites I've read, clown loaches are apparently ok in a
community tank, and will grow fairly slowly.

Grrr. Spazzed at my keyboard and sent before I was through. Anyway,
continuing...

I have the following fish in this tank:
Peacock Gudgeon (7)
Fundulopanchax scheeli (3)
Siamese Algae Eater (3)
Bristlenose Pleco (1)
Red-Eyed Tetra (1)
Otocinclus Catfish (1)

Do any of these seem likely to not get along with a pair of clown
loaches? I suspect they would make an acceptable mix. Also, I'm
concerned with size - I'd be aiming to get the two smallest clowns I
could find, but how fast could I expect them to outgrow a 20 gallon,
especially one so well stocked with food? The SAEs already would enjoy
more swimming space (it's coming, but perhaps six months away yet). I
hesitate to get the clowns if they're going to feel cramped in this
tank.

Any comments appreciated.

--
Eric Schreiber
www.ericschreiber.com

"Eric Schreiber" eric at ericschreiber dot com wrote in message
...

A bit of web searching turns up clown loaches as the best 'natural'
approach to dealing with these snails. I don't expect that they could
wipe the population out, and for that matter, I don't want to wipe the
MTS out - just reduce their numbers a lot.


Not to be a wise guy, but can't you just grab a handful and flush them?

dwhite

Dan White wrote:

Not to be a wise guy, but can't you just grab a handful and flush
them?

Well, I wouldn't flush them - I don't flush any animal, alive or dead.

But yes, I could scoop out piles of gravel, separate out loads of MTS
and crush them (or whatever) - I'm not squeamish, and a couple handfuls
a day wouldn't be a big effort. But I'd prefer a predator approach, if
for no other reason than I'd rather not waste all that protien that
could make some fish very happy.

Besides, a snail-eating fish would provide an on-going solution,
whereas getting rid of them manually only has a temporary effect.

--
Eric Schreiber
www.ericschreiber.com

On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 03:45:42 -0500, "Eric Schreiber" eric at
ericschreiber dot com wrote:

Besides, a snail-eating fish would provide an on-going solution,
whereas getting rid of them manually only has a temporary effect.

Problem is, a Clown loach is a massive fish. When grown it's the size
and general shape of a loaf of bread. It's also boisterous, and your
other fish are small and timid, and to top it off it's a schooling
fish which isn't happy if kept alone.

There are smaller loaches, and AFAIK they all eat snails, so you may
want to look into those instead. They'll only be able to eat the young
snails, but will eventually dent the population.

Other random thoughts on the subject...
* You get as many MTS's as can be supported by your leftover food. If
you can, see if it is possible to reduce the amount of leftovers
reaching the bottom - at present you are apparently feeding the snails
quite a lot.
* Baited traps. A jar or similar with something tasty inside and holes
large enough for the MTS but not for the fish to pass through, will
help you reduce their numbers.
* Crushing them is more difficult than it sounds. If you're squeamish
and don't want to flush or toss the collected snails in the garbage
alive, freezing them is a good and fairly humane way to kill them.
* With an infestation your size, I'd not recommend using snail-killing
medication - you don't want your tank filled with rotting snails.
* As you've noticed, MTS's aren't actually detrimental to the tank.
They eat algae and leftovers and the eggs of other snails, so they're
largely beneficial. Their chief downside is that they'll also eat fish
eggs.

Mean_Chlorine wrote:

Problem is, a Clown loach is a massive fish. When grown it's the size
and general shape of a loaf of bread. It's also boisterous, and your
other fish are small and timid, and to top it off it's a schooling
fish which isn't happy if kept alone.

I would get a pair if I got any, but I know that they can grow very
large. That's my primary concern. I hadn't realized they were also
potentially disruptive - most of my current fish are pretty placid
(except for the SAEs).

There are smaller loaches, and AFAIK they all eat snails, so you may
want to look into those instead. They'll only be able to eat the young
snails, but will eventually dent the population.

That would be ideal.

at present you are apparently feeding the snails quite a lot.

Guilty as charged. I almost certainly overfeed. I will try to cut back,
though at this point the damage is done.

I'll look into alternative loach species, and also the trap you
suggested. Thanks.


--
Eric Schreiber
www.ericschreiber.com

On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 11:39:10 +0200, Mean_Chlorine
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 03:45:42 -0500, "Eric Schreiber" eric at
ericschreiber dot com wrote:

Besides, a snail-eating fish would provide an on-going solution,
whereas getting rid of them manually only has a temporary effect.

Problem is, a Clown loach is a massive fish. When grown it's the size
and general shape of a loaf of bread. It's also boisterous, and your
other fish are small and timid, and to top it off it's a schooling
fish which isn't happy if kept alone.

There are smaller loaches, and AFAIK they all eat snails, so you may
want to look into those instead. They'll only be able to eat the young
snails, but will eventually dent the population.

Other random thoughts on the subject...
* You get as many MTS's as can be supported by your leftover food. If
you can, see if it is possible to reduce the amount of leftovers
reaching the bottom - at present you are apparently feeding the snails
quite a lot.
* Baited traps. A jar or similar with something tasty inside and holes
large enough for the MTS but not for the fish to pass through, will
help you reduce their numbers.
* Crushing them is more difficult than it sounds. If you're squeamish
and don't want to flush or toss the collected snails in the garbage
alive, freezing them is a good and fairly humane way to kill them.
* With an infestation your size, I'd not recommend using snail-killing
medication - you don't want your tank filled with rotting snails.
* As you've noticed, MTS's aren't actually detrimental to the tank.
They eat algae and leftovers and the eggs of other snails, so they're
largely beneficial. Their chief downside is that they'll also eat fish
eggs.


I have two tanks with MTS, both 10 gallons. I accept that they are
beneficial, but they are ugly. I have 3 larger snails, Mystery snail
of some sort, that had survived my Clown Loaches. I moved them to the
10 gallon tanks and I believe the MTS population is way down. I
suppose the Mystery snails have taken food from the MTS, but I also
wonder if the Mystery snails are eating the MTS eggs. I sure enjoy
the Mystery snails a lot more than the MTS.

dick

Subject: MTS out of control
From: "Dan White"
Date: 9/7/2004 3:38 AM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

"Eric Schreiber" eric at ericschreiber dot com wrote in message
...

A bit of web searching turns up clown loaches as the best 'natural'
approach to dealing with these snails. I don't expect that they could
wipe the population out, and for that matter, I don't want to wipe the
MTS out - just reduce their numbers a lot.


Not to be a wise guy, but can't you just grab a handful and flush them?

dwhite

Hehe....
You have no idea then as to the breeding capacity of these snails.
They're like bugs in a house..for every one you see...there's hundreds more you
can't.

"Eric Schreiber" eric at ericschreiber dot com wrote in message
...
Quite some time ago (a year or more) I was given a handful of Malaysian
Trumpet snails by a local fish store. I counted perhaps a hundred. Most
went into my heavily planted 20 gallon community tank, where they've
done quite well for themselves.

Quite well, indeed.

I estimate I now have several thousand, still in that same 20 gallon
tank. The tank, fish and plants are all quite healthy, and the MTS
certainly aren't hurting anything that I can see. But their population
is extremely out of control.

I can literally see my substrate (Flourite gravel) moving, almost
constantly. Especially in the hour or so before the lights go off. It
probably isn't an exaggeration to say that 1/5 of the volume of my
substrate is actually MTS.

A bit of web searching turns up clown loaches as the best 'natural'
approach to dealing with these snails. I don't expect that they could
wipe the population out, and for that matter, I don't want to wipe the
MTS out - just reduce their numbers a lot.

According to the sites I've read, clown loaches are apparently ok in a
community tank, and will grow fairly slowly.


--
Eric Schreiber
www.ericschreiber.com

i have a yo-yo loach that eats snails. ive never fed any of my mts to it
but he sucks the mystery snails right out of the shell. i also had a zebra
loach that would do the same. i'm waiting until my mts get bigger before i
use them as food. i started with one in 10 gallons now i have well over a
100, they bread faster than guppies. W.

|| I estimate I now have several thousand, still in that same 20 gallon
|| tank. The tank, fish and plants are all quite healthy, and the MTS
|| certainly aren't hurting anything that I can see. But their
|| population is extremely out of control.
||
|| I can literally see my substrate (Flourite gravel) moving, almost
|| constantly. Especially in the hour or so before the lights go off. It
|| probably isn't an exaggeration to say that 1/5 of the volume of my
|| substrate is actually MTS.

Eric, here's an alternative...

Stop feeding for a few days, and the MTS will be almost pavlovian trained..
watch this... After about 4 days, drop some shrimp pellets in one spot, and
the next day about 18hrs later, MOST of your MTS will be on top of that
pellet pile, when they are, use your python tube to suction some/alot/not
all of them out.... I have to do that about 2 times a year and it keeps them
under control...

Algae wafers don't seem to work as well... must be something about the
shrimp pellets...

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