African Cichlid Community Tank

Need a bit of help... I would consider myself a well-versed ichthyologist. I have fully planted aquariums and have breed a wide variety of fish from egg layers to bubble nest builders, but never African Cichlid. I finally have the chance to make the switch, I have maintained them before, just never had them myself, and I thought I had a good handle in what I could put in the tank with them, but someone shook my confidence today at work. I would like to put Tiger Barbs, some Leporanious Facti (sp?) and a variety of your run of the mill African cichlid togeather, thought I had seen it done before. Who has had success with others in their tanks with the African Cichlids? Any suggestions? I am currently in an Eclipse 12 fully planted, but I am also going to be getting a bigger tank, 55gal.

Go ahead and put the other fish in. The africans will need something to eat
;o)



--

Margolis
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Jamie,

You are making the common mistake of assuming African Cichlids are all
the same. There are over a thousand African Cichlids from the smallest
at about one inch to the largest at about three foot. They vary from
algae eaters to super predators. You will need to be more specific to
get an answer to your question.


--
Steve Wolstenholme Neural Planner Software

EasyNN-plus. The easy way to build neural networks.
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I keep 5 Bucktooth Tetras in a 65 gallon tank with 3 Green 8 inch Pike
cichlids and seven Tropheus Duboisi cichlids. I also keep about 10 Debauwi
Catfish in a smaller 30 gallon cichlid tank. There are no hard and fast
rules about mixing different types of fish in a cichlid tank.

When you overcrowd a cichlid tank, it forces a community tank feeling upon
the tankmates.


"Jamie" wrote in message
...

Need a bit of help... I would consider myself a well-versed
ichthyologist. I have fully planted aquariums and have breed a wide
variety of fish from egg layers to bubble nest builders, but never
African Cichlid. I finally have the chance to make the switch, I have
maintained them before, just never had them myself, and I thought I had
a good handle in what I could put in the tank with them, but someone
shook my confidence today at work. I would like to put Tiger Barbs,
some Leporanious Facti (sp?) and a variety of your run of the mill
African cichlid togeather, thought I had seen it done before. Who has
had success with others in their tanks with the African Cichlids? Any
suggestions? I am currently in an Eclipse 12 fully planted, but I am
also going to be getting a bigger tank, 55gal.


--
Jamie

there most certainly are rules! when you mix lakes, you stress the fish out.
different lakes have different water parameters, not to mention the
different lake fish also have different dietary needs. different lakes
CANNOT be mixed.

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remove UNDIES to reply

The local pet stores, Petsmart, ect., do not charge their water parameters
for their cichlid fish, but please note that they want to sell you water
conditioners, pH adjusters for your tank, and special dietary food for your
fish in your "special" African tank.

Marketing rules, "profits are us" rules, are meant to be broken.

"agent smith" wrote in message
...
there most certainly are rules! when you mix lakes, you stress the fish
out. different lakes have different water parameters, not to mention the
different lake fish also have different dietary needs. different lakes
CANNOT be mixed.

--
Be sure to check out http://home.satx.rr.com/satxcichlids
for information on my fishies! also, sign up for a *FREE*
ipod he
http://www.freeiPods.com/default.aspx?referer=9570045
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/daewootech/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/daewoolanos/
http://www.geocities.com/daewoolanoshatchback/
contact info:


remove UNDIES to reply

"Sokar" wrote in message
...
The local pet stores, Petsmart, ect., do not charge their water parameters
for their cichlid fish, but please note that they want to sell you water
conditioners, pH adjusters for your tank, and special dietary food for
your fish in your "special" African tank.

Marketing rules, "profits are us" rules, are meant to be broken.


I personally don't buy fish from shops like Wal*Mart, or any other shop
that sells "Mixed Africans". When N. leleupi were first imported, they were
kept in soft water. None of the imported fish lived longer than a year. The
people here thought they required the same water conditions as the West
African cichlids they'd imported in the past.
Hardier fish like many of the Mbuna can be acclimated to different water
conditions and be mixed with other fish. And if you feed them the wrong
thing and they die, well that's a four dollar fish dead. If you buy a
Cyathopharynx foae and mix it with the wrong fish and it gets stressed and
dies, well now you've killed a hundred dollar fish. Your views on water
conditions and mixing may change a bit. These are fish you'll not find
currently at places like Wal*mart.
If you're so sure it's only a marketing ploy, I think we should conduct
a test. Go purchase yourself some Xenotilapia sp "papilio" from Lake
Tanganyika and acclimate them to a tank with a pH of about 6 and a hardness
below three. Then toss a few Melanochromis in the tank. By your thinking,
you'll have nothing to worry about, the fish will thrive and be happy so
long as you pack enough fish in there. If you can get them to live say 6 X.
sp "papilio" and 6 M. auratus in a 55 gallon tank with no deaths for a year,
I'd be willing to pay for the fish. ;-)
Being uneducated in the interactions between certain species and having
a few fish live together for more than a month, does not make you an expert.
I don't claim to be an expert myself, but I've lost fish when I started by
mixing incompatible species, and I've lost fish to improper water
parameters. I prefer to research now and keep my fish in their proper
environments to protect my investment.
Tim
www.fishaholics.org

All of the Tropical Fish Stores in my Metropolitan Area (300,000+
population) do not adjust the water parameters of their water for African
cichlids. Also, all of these Tropical/Marine fish stores sell their fish
from at least one tank called mixed cichlids. I suspect that Petsmart, which
has about six stores in this area, sells about 10 times more fish than all
of these smaller tropical fish stores combined.

What economic advantage is it to them (Petsmart) to keep their fish in poor,
life threatening, water conditions, as you claim they are doing.

For the record, I do buffer my cichlid's water with Seachem's
Malawi/Victoria Buffer, but the freshwater fish who swim in the same tank
with them, seem to be a healthy lot, dispite my misguided efforts on their
behalf.

"Amateur Cichlids" wrote in message
. ..

"Sokar" wrote in message
...
The local pet stores, Petsmart, ect., do not charge their water
parameters for their cichlid fish, but please note that they want to sell
you water conditioners, pH adjusters for your tank, and special dietary
food for your fish in your "special" African tank.

Marketing rules, "profits are us" rules, are meant to be broken.


I personally don't buy fish from shops like Wal*Mart, or any other shop
that sells "Mixed Africans". When N. leleupi were first imported, they
were kept in soft water. None of the imported fish lived longer than a
year. The people here thought they required the same water conditions as
the West African cichlids they'd imported in the past.
Hardier fish like many of the Mbuna can be acclimated to different
water conditions and be mixed with other fish. And if you feed them the
wrong thing and they die, well that's a four dollar fish dead. If you buy
a Cyathopharynx foae and mix it with the wrong fish and it gets stressed
and dies, well now you've killed a hundred dollar fish. Your views on
water conditions and mixing may change a bit. These are fish you'll not
find currently at places like Wal*mart.
If you're so sure it's only a marketing ploy, I think we should conduct
a test. Go purchase yourself some Xenotilapia sp "papilio" from Lake
Tanganyika and acclimate them to a tank with a pH of about 6 and a
hardness below three. Then toss a few Melanochromis in the tank. By your
thinking, you'll have nothing to worry about, the fish will thrive and be
happy so long as you pack enough fish in there. If you can get them to
live say 6 X. sp "papilio" and 6 M. auratus in a 55 gallon tank with no
deaths for a year, I'd be willing to pay for the fish. ;-)
Being uneducated in the interactions between certain species and having
a few fish live together for more than a month, does not make you an
expert. I don't claim to be an expert myself, but I've lost fish when I
started by mixing incompatible species, and I've lost fish to improper
water parameters. I prefer to research now and keep my fish in their
proper environments to protect my investment.
Tim
www.fishaholics.org

You are correct, pet stores, Petsmart, etc. do not change their water parameters, for anything, they also do weekly water changes (or should do) and generally the people in those beginner pet places barely know anything...

What most people do not know is that the breeders don't do not change their water parameters either... the more chemicals you dump in your tank make it harder on your fish, with the ups and downs in pH and the like, I to have found fish are happy when you do frequent water changes. People do not believe me when I tell them how long my fish live (recently lost my oldest fish my mommy corycat that was over 10 years old – she had a good run)

The only exception I make is when you’re setting up the tank and water changes, I use the cycling aids like biozyme help a bunch, salt and de-chlorinator.

Originally Posted by Sokar

The local pet stores, Petsmart, ect., do not charge their water parameters
for their cichlid fish, but please note that they want to sell you water
conditioners, pH adjusters for your tank, and special dietary food for your
fish in your "special" African tank.

Marketing rules, "profits are us" rules, are meant to be broken.

"agent smith" wrote in message
...
there most certainly are rules! when you mix lakes, you stress the fish
out. different lakes have different water parameters, not to mention the
different lake fish also have different dietary needs. different lakes
CANNOT be mixed.

--
Be sure to check out http://home.satx.rr.com/satxcichlids
for information on my fishies! also, sign up for a *FREE*
ipod he
http://www.freeiPods.com/default.aspx?referer=9570045
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/daewootech/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/daewoolanos/
http://www.geocities.com/daewoolanoshatchback/
contact info:


remove UNDIES to reply

agent smith wrote:
there most certainly are rules! when you mix lakes, you stress the fish out.
different lakes have different water parameters, not to mention the
different lake fish also have different dietary needs. different lakes
CANNOT be mixed.


The cichlid guru at LFS where I worked taught me that most of the Malawi
"haplochromes" are fine with rock dwelling Tanganyikans. They can
live on a similar diet, but occupy a different part of the water column.
This actually makes for a very attractive tank. Malawi fish can adapt
to Tanganyika water and vice-versa, just as neons can adapt to hard
water. The only time you need to be super-careful of water chemistry is
if you're trying to keep wild fish and get F1 progeny.

Following his advice, I had a pair of S. ahli in with small rock
dwelling tanganyikans in Tanganyika chemistry. All the Tanganyikans
promptly set up breeding colonies. The S. ahli also had great color and
bred, and the male lived for 7 years (he killed his mate and I left him
solo). I never saw signs of water chemistry related stress in any fish.

Agreed that mbuna would be difficult to mix with micropredatory
Tanganyikans. The diets are very different and the mbuna would probably
succumb to Malawi bloat.

--
__ Elaine T __
__' http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__