No water changes for one year

I've got a 15 gallon tank with about eight platys and a pl*co in it, no
plants. I used to lose a fish every 6-8 weeks. This seemed to happen
right after water changes even though I was using that chlorine remover
stuff and only changing about 2 gallons/week. So I did an experiment
beginning last March. I stopped changing the water. In the last year I
have had zero fishes die. I'm using a Marineland Emperor, wash the
filter every couple weeks and change the filter/carbon thing about every
3 months. No UGF.

So do you think I've got wicked nitrates buit up in the tank and the
fish are just used to it? I keep reading about how important water
quality is and how important water changes are yet I get good results
for a whole year never-ever changing the water, just adding to make up
for evaporation. Carbon doesn't remove nitrates does it?

Comments?

I had a related question. I bought a HOB (wisper) filter the other day,
and on the box it claimed to remove nitrates from the water. I was
under the impression that nitrates could only be removed by water
changes, plants, or de-nitrification (usually in the substrate). Any
thoughts?

In article . com,
wrote:
I had a related question. I bought a HOB (wisper) filter the other day,
and on the box it claimed to remove nitrates from the water. I was
under the impression that nitrates could only be removed by water
changes, plants, or de-nitrification (usually in the substrate). Any
thoughts?


Bacterial will do this:


NH3 -- NO2 -- NO3 -- N2

that is, they'll convert ammonia from waste form fish into atmospheric
nitrogen. But, only in the presence of plenty of oxygen.

Plants will use up ammonia, and nitrates (which they convert to
ammonia first, except crypts that canuse nitrate directly) as
well of course.

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Richard Sexton wrote:
In article . com,
wrote:
[snip]I was under the impression that nitrates could only
be removed by water changes, plants, or de-nitrification
(usually in the substrate). Any thoughts?

That's right.

[Bacteria] will do this:

NH3 -- NO2 -- NO3 -- N2

that is, they'll convert ammonia [***] into atmospheric
nitrogen. But, only in the presence of plenty of oxygen.

Note that the steps of this oxidation are performed by different types
of bacteria.

The steps up to NO3 require O2.

The N03 -- N2 step is *anaerobic*. It is an example of true anaerobic
respiration. The principle is like aerobic respiration, but something
other than oxygen is used as an electron acceptor. Googling the
details is left as an exercise for the curious.

To the extent that the anaerobes have a strict requirement to be
delivered NO3 for their anaerobic respiratory process to create N2, and
that such NO3 arrives only by dint of some aerobic steps, it is proper
to say that ammonia-N2 requires oxygen. However, the actual step
producing N2 does not rely on oxygen directly.

[***]

--Trapper

wrote in message
ups.com...
I had a related question. I bought a HOB (wisper) filter the other day,
and on the box it claimed to remove nitrates from the water. I was
under the impression that nitrates could only be removed by water
changes, plants, or de-nitrification (usually in the substrate). Any
thoughts?


I find that in scientific circles, it's more important for the question
to be precise, rather than to get the correct answer which might mislead
you.

The correct question (imho) would be:
Is the amount of NO3 removed by this filter going to be significant in my
application?

The answer would then be (imo) *hugely* simplified.... no.
--
www.NetMax.tk

I am pretty sure that hob whisper filter denitrates the water via the
cartridge it uses. It is pretty common for filters to control
ammonia/nitrates/nitrites with a cartridge containing something like
zeolite that absorbs such things. However my impression is if you use
such measures you're committed to doing so until a major change takes
place with the tank. Tank cycling involves good bacteria eating ammonia
and nitrates, reproducing, and populating surface area aerobically (the
good bugs need oxygen) so if you take away the ammonia etc. then those
good bacteria are greatly reduced if not eliminated. Then, if you start
not using cartridges or replacing them in other words then fish will
probably die off because the tank will start cycling again now that
ammonia et. is there and not absorbed by the zeolite or whatever. So in
the long run it is best to not use such cartridges and cycle the tank
before more than 1 or 2 fish are in the tank. Otherwise you just have
to keep replacing cartridges for the life of the tank setup. Hope I've
helped and if I'm wrong someone please step up and point out what they
want. Later!

I sent an email to Tetra, just to see what they would say. I got this
response:

On the filter boxes I have here, the filter talks about eliminating
ammonia and nitrites but nothing about nitrates. If you can e-mail me
the bar code I can have Quality see if there was a misprint on the box
you have.

Thank you
Consumer Relations

At first I thought that I may have been mistaken, but after checking
the box, I was not. I am going to write them back and tell them. I
wonder if I should ask for coupons, eh?

My guess would be that the bio wheel on your filter has enough greenery
growing on it to eat the nitrates produced in your tank. Also a good
amount could be growing in the tank and getting eaten by the pl*co.
Something is eating it - I seriously doubt that a year's worth of
nitrate buildup is just sitting in your tank with no bad effects on
anything.

Be careful with your tank! It's nice to have a balanced setup and not
have to work to keep fish...don't mess it up by disturbing the balance
too much! Good job - and good luck.

-Daniel

Bob Wennerstrom wrote:
I've got a 15 gallon tank with about eight platys and a pl*co in it, no
plants. I used to lose a fish every 6-8 weeks. This seemed to happen
right after water changes even though I was using that chlorine remover
stuff and only changing about 2 gallons/week. So I did an experiment
beginning last March. I stopped changing the water. In the last year I
have had zero fishes die. I'm using a Marineland Emperor, wash the
filter every couple weeks and change the filter/carbon thing about every
3 months. No UGF.

So do you think I've got wicked nitrates buit up in the tank and the
fish are just used to it? I keep reading about how important water
quality is and how important water changes are yet I get good results
for a whole year never-ever changing the water, just adding to make up
for evaporation. Carbon doesn't remove nitrates does it?

Comments?

The only way to know what is happening is to test the water. Anything
else is mere speculation. Perhaps your LFS could do a nitrate test so
you don't have to buy the whole kit if you don't want to.

--
__ Elaine T __
__' http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__

Bob Wennerstrom nospam wrote:
I've got a 15 gallon tank with about eight platys and a pl*co in it, no
plants. I used to lose a fish every 6-8 weeks. This seemed to happen
right after water changes even though I was using that chlorine remover
stuff and only changing about 2 gallons/week. So I did an experiment
beginning last March. I stopped changing the water. In the last year I
have had zero fishes die. I'm using a Marineland Emperor, wash the
filter every couple weeks and change the filter/carbon thing about every
3 months. No UGF.

So do you think I've got wicked nitrates buit up in the tank and the
fish are just used to it? I keep reading about how important water
quality is and how important water changes are yet I get good results
for a whole year never-ever changing the water, just adding to make up
for evaporation. Carbon doesn't remove nitrates does it?

Comments?

Freshwater fish can tolerate very high nitrate levels if they're allowed to
gradually adjust. That's probably what you've got going on, although it's
impossible to tell without a water test. God help any new fish you add.

Google on "old tank syndrome". Since it sounds like you're doing zero gravel
cleanings too, OTS is in your future. Not if, but when.