building gunite koi pond

hi, we're building a pond this year out of gunite and plan to keep koi
in it. are there issues we should be aware of with respect to toxicity
(or anything harmful)? we plan to paint the pond black and have
several water plants.

thanks

Not promoting the product or anything but have you checked into the
sprayed polyurea ponds........no painting needed as it can be colored
to whatever color you want. I would think it would be on par pricewise
as gunite.

On 17 Mar 2005 12:20:44 -0800, wrote:

===hi, we're building a pond this year out of gunite and plan to keep koi
===in it. are there issues we should be aware of with respect to toxicity
===(or anything harmful)? we plan to paint the pond black and have
===several water plants.
===
===thanks


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!

!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"
html
A fresh gunite or concrete pond leach out quite a bit of chemicals in the
water. Since you will paint it, there is no need to worry.
wrote:
blockquote TYPE=CITEhi, we're building a pond this year out of gunite
and plan to keep koi
brin it.  are there issues we should be aware of with respect to
toxicity
br(or anything harmful)?  we plan to paint the pond black and have
brseveral water plants.
pthanks/blockquote
/html

There is a way to artificially age the concrete, so that most of
everything that will leach out is removed. Other than that method, it
just takes a long time to get the concrete / gunite to a stage that it
will efectively hold paint thats applied to it. I certainly would not
want a routine of having to paint any pond. Yes, there is paints and
finishes that will stay on a concrete surface, even less that will do
a good job of staying on a submerged concrete surface.........so to me
a concrete painted surface sounds like too much work overall in the
long run.

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 13:23:28 -0800, Sean Dinh
wrote:

===


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!

sorry, am a bit slow... if i'm reading the comments correctly, there is
an issue with gunite/concrete leaching chems. what are the measures to
correctly make a gunite pond "safe" for koi?

On 17 Mar 2005 16:31:55 -0800, wrote:

===sorry, am a bit slow... if i'm reading the comments correctly, there is
===an issue with gunite/concrete leaching chems. what are the measures to
===correctly make a gunite pond "safe" for koi?

Yes, any concrete product (lime) will make your ponds GH and PH go off
the scale in the alkaline range. It takes time for all the exposed and
excess lime to leech out of the cement. This time frame can range
from weeks to months and even years..... Coating "green" concrete
products with a coating before they are aged usually leads to the
product not adhering well, which results in peeling and bubbling of
the coating.......so there again it takes time for a concrete pond to
cure sufficiently before its coated. Paint or specialty coverings will
have a recomended method of time for cure before applying products,
and a lot of them also state to etch concrete with an acid based
product to get rid of any loose or potential for any stuff to leech
and make the coating loose in the process.

Here is a link to how to treat your concrete / gunite pond before
adding fish or painting it.
You will have to sign up on this individuals board, but its easy and
not a problem. This individual knows the ins and outs of doing this
and his method can be trusted as can any other info on his website.

http://www.click2roark.com

What your looking for is on the left side of the page under the TECH
info area....Leeching Concrete.

Don;t mind this fellows gruff attitude with words, he is just trying
to get his point accross to lots of hard headed folks, and he is
rather a pretty well laid back individual that knows his stuff.

Hope this sheds some light on what needs to be done with concrete when
used in a pond.



==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!

wrote in message
oups.com...
hi, we're building a pond this year out of gunite and plan to keep koi
in it. are there issues we should be aware of with respect to toxicity
(or anything harmful)? we plan to paint the pond black and have
several water plants.

How does the price of gunite compare to an EPDM liner? Specifically, if
all the prep such as rebar and mesh is already in place. I have concerns
about a certain swimming yard mammal and her claws if I just use a liner.

How does the price of gunite compare to an EPDM liner? Specifically, if
all the prep such as rebar and mesh is already in place. I have concerns
about a certain swimming yard mammal and her claws if I just use a liner.

The Koi USA article was in the Nov/Dec issue. "Polyurea Elastomer Spray
Liners: Wow!" by Nancy Moore & Lucy Macneil. Tim Zuber is the VP of Applied
Resin Technology, Inc., in Woodinville, WA he can be reached at
(425-483-0323) or

As far as durability, "The strength and elasticity of the product do make
it nearly immune to damage." Then they talk about the time they went to set
a 7,000+ lb. granite rock and the track hoe operator, at full extension of
his machine, lost control of the stone and it dropped 9'. The rounded end
landing in an area approx. 12"X18", punching a crater in the substrate
(gravel over the liner) a foot deep, the liner was unharmed. There is a
picture of this, btw. One of the few times having rocks (as a cushion) on
the bottom of the pond was a good thing. There was no water in the pond, so
thankfully no critters either. ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
...
How does the price of gunite compare to an EPDM liner? Specifically,
if
all the prep such as rebar and mesh is already in place. I have concerns
about a certain swimming yard mammal and her claws if I just use a liner.

The Koi USA article was in the Nov/Dec issue. "Polyurea Elastomer Spray
Liners: Wow!" by Nancy Moore & Lucy Macneil. Tim Zuber is the VP of
Applied
Resin Technology, Inc., in Woodinville, WA he can be reached at
(425-483-0323) or

As far as durability, "The strength and elasticity of the product do make
it nearly immune to damage." Then they talk about the time they went to
set
a 7,000+ lb. granite rock and the track hoe operator, at full extension of
his machine, lost control of the stone and it dropped 9'. The rounded end
landing in an area approx. 12"X18", punching a crater in the substrate
(gravel over the liner) a foot deep, the liner was unharmed. There is a
picture of this, btw. One of the few times having rocks (as a cushion) on
the bottom of the pond was a good thing. There was no water in the pond,
so
thankfully no critters either. ~ jan

I guess my question was confusing considering the thread drift to two
different spray-on products and the comparison to EPDM irrelevant. I should
have just asked how expensive a gunite installation was, which is the
concrete spray-on stuff.
But, thanks for the info on the polyurea application. I prefer less
plastic, more natural, but it does sound like this stuff is tough. It also
ties in with kathy's link to natural swimming pools, as I can't imagine
staying out of the water when temperatures get hot here, as well as the
swimming dog.

Look at the MAKC Web page http://www.makc.com/ and there is a link on the
right of executive members and committees. I personally know Wayne, Art,
David and Floyd are knowledgeable about the members with concrete ponds in
the Northern Virginia Area, the problems and benefits, and most of the
installers. These should be good sources. I listed first names only, but
they are the only ones with those first names.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html

"small fish" wrote in message
news:1111275769.db623e4a640d82a5778a51269a3eb826@t eranews...

"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
...
How does the price of gunite compare to an EPDM liner? Specifically,
if
all the prep such as rebar and mesh is already in place. I have concerns
about a certain swimming yard mammal and her claws if I just use a
liner.

The Koi USA article was in the Nov/Dec issue. "Polyurea Elastomer Spray
Liners: Wow!" by Nancy Moore & Lucy Macneil. Tim Zuber is the VP of
Applied
Resin Technology, Inc., in Woodinville, WA he can be reached at
(425-483-0323) or

As far as durability, "The strength and elasticity of the product do make
it nearly immune to damage." Then they talk about the time they went to
set
a 7,000+ lb. granite rock and the track hoe operator, at full extension
of
his machine, lost control of the stone and it dropped 9'. The rounded end
landing in an area approx. 12"X18", punching a crater in the substrate
(gravel over the liner) a foot deep, the liner was unharmed. There is a
picture of this, btw. One of the few times having rocks (as a cushion) on
the bottom of the pond was a good thing. There was no water in the pond,
so
thankfully no critters either. ~ jan

I guess my question was confusing considering the thread drift to two
different spray-on products and the comparison to EPDM irrelevant. I
should
have just asked how expensive a gunite installation was, which is the
concrete spray-on stuff.
But, thanks for the info on the polyurea application. I prefer less
plastic, more natural, but it does sound like this stuff is tough. It also
ties in with kathy's link to natural swimming pools, as I can't imagine
staying out of the water when temperatures get hot here, as well as the
swimming dog.