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Betta fins suddenly shredded



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 18th 05, 08:00 PM
Elaine T
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Default Betta fins suddenly shredded

Ack! I have 2 bettas in a divided 2.5 gal tank with a Nano Filter. I
woke up this morning and both bettas' fins are in tatters. I'm talking
total, heartbreaking shreds. Both were in perfect shape last night. I
immediately tested the water, expecting to see ammonia but it was 0/0/5
ammonia/nitrite/nitrate as usual. I changed 60% of the water and added
extra AmQuel anyway. The tank has been cycled and stable for about 3
months and gets weekly 50% water changes. It also has a lot of java
moss that would tend to soak up an ammonia spike.

I also cleaned the filter, which gets some sunlight, and the inside was
coated with blue-green algae. I've heard of toxic cyanobacteria and was
wondering whether cyanobacteria toxins can cause fin problems and
nothing else? I'm grasping at straws.

Or did one of my bettas jump the 2 cm of divider that's not covered by
glass, neatly dodging the filter intake, fight his tankmate, and jump
back?!? There is no other way around or through the divider. A fight
fits the best but seems improbable. Both fish are eating, behaving
pretty normally, and nobody's talking.

What do you all think and does anyone have experience healing bettas'
fins after a fight? I always use very clean water and more frequent
feedings for fin damage, but I've never seen betta fins this badly
damaged. Are there any other betta specific tips or tricks?

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com
  #2  
Old May 18th 05, 09:37 PM
Gill Passman
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Default


"Elaine T" wrote in message
.. .
Ack! I have 2 bettas in a divided 2.5 gal tank with a Nano Filter. I
woke up this morning and both bettas' fins are in tatters. I'm talking
total, heartbreaking shreds. Both were in perfect shape last night. I
immediately tested the water, expecting to see ammonia but it was 0/0/5
ammonia/nitrite/nitrate as usual. I changed 60% of the water and added
extra AmQuel anyway. The tank has been cycled and stable for about 3
months and gets weekly 50% water changes. It also has a lot of java
moss that would tend to soak up an ammonia spike.

I also cleaned the filter, which gets some sunlight, and the inside was
coated with blue-green algae. I've heard of toxic cyanobacteria and was
wondering whether cyanobacteria toxins can cause fin problems and
nothing else? I'm grasping at straws.

Or did one of my bettas jump the 2 cm of divider that's not covered by
glass, neatly dodging the filter intake, fight his tankmate, and jump
back?!? There is no other way around or through the divider. A fight
fits the best but seems improbable. Both fish are eating, behaving
pretty normally, and nobody's talking.

What do you all think and does anyone have experience healing bettas'
fins after a fight? I always use very clean water and more frequent
feedings for fin damage, but I've never seen betta fins this badly
damaged. Are there any other betta specific tips or tricks?

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com


Hi Elaine,
Didn't one of your bettas shred his own tail after seeing a mirror....or
maybe that was someone else. Perhaps an explanation....

Gill


  #3  
Old May 18th 05, 09:37 PM
IDzine01
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Default

Hmm.

You got me stumped Elaine. I can't answer the cyanobacteria toxin
question without some research. So, my first guess is...

1. cleaning the filter and doing 50% water changes could cause a mini
cycle. If your tests are old or if you're using dip stick tests you
might not be getting accurate readings. Perhaps there's a problem with
the test. (I'm totally reaching here and I don't think this so
probable, but ya never know)

2. Maybe they did just what you said... jumped... fought and jumped
back. It's TOTALLY not impossible. I lost a betta once. It jumped out
of a whole the size of a quarter. A QUARTER! They can maneuver through
impossible spaces. Plus, they both are showing signs of tattered fins.
Chances are if it were fin rot, one would show signs first then the
other.

Like you, I use clean water and TLC to heal shredded fins. I don't
indorse salt baths or Melafix. Others really like Melafix and find it
helpful when healing fin damage not caused by fin rot (bacterial). I
have heard of allergic reactions and possible damage that could be done
to the labyrinth organ though, so I don't bother with it.

  #4  
Old May 19th 05, 02:54 AM
Daniel Morrow
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Default

"Elaine T" wrote in message
.. .
Ack! I have 2 bettas in a divided 2.5 gal tank with a Nano Filter. I
woke up this morning and both bettas' fins are in tatters. I'm talking
total, heartbreaking shreds. Both were in perfect shape last night. I
immediately tested the water, expecting to see ammonia but it was 0/0/5
ammonia/nitrite/nitrate as usual. I changed 60% of the water and added
extra AmQuel anyway. The tank has been cycled and stable for about 3
months and gets weekly 50% water changes. It also has a lot of java
moss that would tend to soak up an ammonia spike.

I also cleaned the filter, which gets some sunlight, and the inside was
coated with blue-green algae. I've heard of toxic cyanobacteria and was
wondering whether cyanobacteria toxins can cause fin problems and
nothing else? I'm grasping at straws.

Or did one of my bettas jump the 2 cm of divider that's not covered by
glass, neatly dodging the filter intake, fight his tankmate, and jump
back?!? There is no other way around or through the divider. A fight
fits the best but seems improbable. Both fish are eating, behaving
pretty normally, and nobody's talking.

What do you all think and does anyone have experience healing bettas'
fins after a fight? I always use very clean water and more frequent
feedings for fin damage, but I've never seen betta fins this badly
damaged. Are there any other betta specific tips or tricks?

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com


That happened to my male betta once and the only other fish in with it was a
female betta. It seemed to happen overnight and there was practically no
fins left. I chalked it up to the female attacking him in the dark and he
seemed relatively unaffected by it despite the fin damage. I did absolutely
nothing and he healed so well I couldn't notice any sign of it ever
happening. The only worry I would have if I were you elaine is if you were
going to enter your bettas in a show that judges on the quality of the fins,
and after they heal you still might not have any problem. But if you want to
treat the wounds just in case I don't see any reason why you couldn't as
long as it isn't too extreme and risky. Do you have a gravel substrate in
the tank? If you do I am beginning to wonder about yours and mine
experiences as caused by male bettas dragging their tales in the dark on
some gravel? Just an idea as it's important to find out the root cause of
the problem to try and prevent it from ever happening again. Good luck and
keep your cool, later Dan!


  #5  
Old May 19th 05, 08:50 AM
Elaine T
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Posts: n/a
Default

Gill Passman wrote:
"Elaine T" wrote in message
.. .

Ack! I have 2 bettas in a divided 2.5 gal tank with a Nano Filter. I
woke up this morning and both bettas' fins are in tatters. I'm talking
total, heartbreaking shreds. Both were in perfect shape last night. I
immediately tested the water, expecting to see ammonia but it was 0/0/5
ammonia/nitrite/nitrate as usual. I changed 60% of the water and added
extra AmQuel anyway. The tank has been cycled and stable for about 3
months and gets weekly 50% water changes. It also has a lot of java
moss that would tend to soak up an ammonia spike.

I also cleaned the filter, which gets some sunlight, and the inside was
coated with blue-green algae. I've heard of toxic cyanobacteria and was
wondering whether cyanobacteria toxins can cause fin problems and
nothing else? I'm grasping at straws.

Or did one of my bettas jump the 2 cm of divider that's not covered by
glass, neatly dodging the filter intake, fight his tankmate, and jump
back?!? There is no other way around or through the divider. A fight
fits the best but seems improbable. Both fish are eating, behaving
pretty normally, and nobody's talking.

What do you all think and does anyone have experience healing bettas'
fins after a fight? I always use very clean water and more frequent
feedings for fin damage, but I've never seen betta fins this badly
damaged. Are there any other betta specific tips or tricks?

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com



Hi Elaine,
Didn't one of your bettas shred his own tail after seeing a mirror....or
maybe that was someone else. Perhaps an explanation....

Gill


One did, but he only got his tail, and it was finally growing out. This
is far worse.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com
  #6  
Old May 19th 05, 09:02 AM
Elaine T
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

IDzine01 wrote:
Hmm.

You got me stumped Elaine. I can't answer the cyanobacteria toxin
question without some research. So, my first guess is...

1. cleaning the filter and doing 50% water changes could cause a mini
cycle. If your tests are old or if you're using dip stick tests you
might not be getting accurate readings. Perhaps there's a problem with
the test. (I'm totally reaching here and I don't think this so
probable, but ya never know)


I only cleaned the filter after the fins shredded to be sure it was
working. Seemed fine, but that's when I found all the cyanobacter. It
was just a 50% water change this weekend. My test is dry-tab and
usually works. *scratching head*

2. Maybe they did just what you said... jumped... fought and jumped
back. It's TOTALLY not impossible. I lost a betta once. It jumped out
of a whole the size of a quarter. A QUARTER! They can maneuver through
impossible spaces. Plus, they both are showing signs of tattered fins.
Chances are if it were fin rot, one would show signs first then the
other.

Like you, I use clean water and TLC to heal shredded fins. I don't
indorse salt baths or Melafix. Others really like Melafix and find it
helpful when healing fin damage not caused by fin rot (bacterial). I
have heard of allergic reactions and possible damage that could be done
to the labyrinth organ though, so I don't bother with it.

Thanks. You really know bettas so I feel better. I'm suspicious of the
carriers that make the water all bubbly in Melafix anyway.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com
  #7  
Old May 19th 05, 09:22 AM
Elaine T
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Daniel Morrow wrote:
"Elaine T" wrote in message
.. .

Ack! I have 2 bettas in a divided 2.5 gal tank with a Nano Filter. I
woke up this morning and both bettas' fins are in tatters. I'm talking
total, heartbreaking shreds. Both were in perfect shape last night. I
immediately tested the water, expecting to see ammonia but it was 0/0/5
ammonia/nitrite/nitrate as usual. I changed 60% of the water and added
extra AmQuel anyway. The tank has been cycled and stable for about 3
months and gets weekly 50% water changes. It also has a lot of java
moss that would tend to soak up an ammonia spike.

I also cleaned the filter, which gets some sunlight, and the inside was
coated with blue-green algae. I've heard of toxic cyanobacteria and was
wondering whether cyanobacteria toxins can cause fin problems and
nothing else? I'm grasping at straws.

Or did one of my bettas jump the 2 cm of divider that's not covered by
glass, neatly dodging the filter intake, fight his tankmate, and jump
back?!? There is no other way around or through the divider. A fight
fits the best but seems improbable. Both fish are eating, behaving
pretty normally, and nobody's talking.

What do you all think and does anyone have experience healing bettas'
fins after a fight? I always use very clean water and more frequent
feedings for fin damage, but I've never seen betta fins this badly
damaged. Are there any other betta specific tips or tricks?

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com



That happened to my male betta once and the only other fish in with it was a
female betta. It seemed to happen overnight and there was practically no
fins left. I chalked it up to the female attacking him in the dark and he
seemed relatively unaffected by it despite the fin damage. I did absolutely
nothing and he healed so well I couldn't notice any sign of it ever
happening. The only worry I would have if I were you elaine is if you were
going to enter your bettas in a show that judges on the quality of the fins,
and after they heal you still might not have any problem. But if you want to
treat the wounds just in case I don't see any reason why you couldn't as
long as it isn't too extreme and risky. Do you have a gravel substrate in
the tank? If you do I am beginning to wonder about yours and mine
experiences as caused by male bettas dragging their tales in the dark on
some gravel? Just an idea as it's important to find out the root cause of
the problem to try and prevent it from ever happening again. Good luck and
keep your cool, later Dan!


There's no gravel in the tank, and only java moss and floating
watersprite so nothing they could tear fins on. This sounds just like
your male betta - shredded overnight and half the fins gone. *poof* I
wasn't planning on showing these fish. I'd just like to see the fish
healthy again.

I'm going to test the water daily for a while and do 25% changes every
other day. More important, I've got the place where they maybe could
have jumped across covered.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com
  #8  
Old May 19th 05, 03:37 PM
IDzine01
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Default

Oh, I also wanted to mention that I have had major shredded fins occur
when I'm not carful with ph testing. My tap water is more alkaline then
my tank water so if I'm not careful and change too much water (50%) the
pH levels fluctuate more then the .2 safe range. That's when I notice
shredding on my old betta.

I actually haven't heard anyone verify that pH fluctuations can cause
shredded fins so I can't say for sure if this is true, but I have seen
it a few times now and it's consistant with pH fluctuations.

Maybe someone can verify or discount this theory for me. I'd like to
know.

Thanks,
christie

  #9  
Old May 19th 05, 07:19 PM
Elaine T
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Default

IDzine01 wrote:
Oh, I also wanted to mention that I have had major shredded fins occur
when I'm not carful with ph testing. My tap water is more alkaline then
my tank water so if I'm not careful and change too much water (50%) the
pH levels fluctuate more then the .2 safe range. That's when I notice
shredding on my old betta.

I actually haven't heard anyone verify that pH fluctuations can cause
shredded fins so I can't say for sure if this is true, but I have seen
it a few times now and it's consistant with pH fluctuations.

Maybe someone can verify or discount this theory for me. I'd like to
know.

Thanks,
christie

Really? I did big water changes Friday and Sunday since I've been
battling algae growing on the java moss. I wanted to lower phosphates.
Seems like Sunday to Wednesday is kind of a long gap but that makes
more sense than anything else I've come up with. My tap water is
alkaline and variable - I've tested it as high as pH 8. The pH of the
betta tank usually stays fairly close because there's no gravel to trap
anything but I didn't test this time.

Does the shredding you take a few days after the pH change and then
happen literally overnight?

Happily, the little guys are looking fine in every other way.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com
  #10  
Old May 19th 05, 07:49 PM
Derek Benson
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Default

On Wed, 18 May 2005 19:00:28 GMT, Elaine T
wrote:

Ack! I have 2 bettas in a divided 2.5 gal tank with a Nano Filter. I
woke up this morning and both bettas' fins are in tatters. I'm talking
total, heartbreaking shreds. Both were in perfect shape last night. I
immediately tested the water, expecting to see ammonia but it was 0/0/5
ammonia/nitrite/nitrate as usual. I changed 60% of the water and added
extra AmQuel anyway. The tank has been cycled and stable for about 3
months and gets weekly 50% water changes. It also has a lot of java
moss that would tend to soak up an ammonia spike.

I also cleaned the filter, which gets some sunlight, and the inside was
coated with blue-green algae. I've heard of toxic cyanobacteria and was
wondering whether cyanobacteria toxins can cause fin problems and
nothing else? I'm grasping at straws.

Or did one of my bettas jump the 2 cm of divider that's not covered by
glass, neatly dodging the filter intake, fight his tankmate, and jump
back?!? There is no other way around or through the divider. A fight
fits the best but seems improbable. Both fish are eating, behaving
pretty normally, and nobody's talking.

What do you all think and does anyone have experience healing bettas'
fins after a fight? I always use very clean water and more frequent
feedings for fin damage, but I've never seen betta fins this badly
damaged. Are there any other betta specific tips or tricks?


Do you live alone, or are there other people in your household? If
you're not alone, after you went to bed someone else moved one of the
bettas to the other side because they wanted to see a fight. After the
fighting the betta was moved back.

Otherwise one of your bettas jumped over the partition in that 2 cm
area and then jumped back. This isn't unlikely at all, except for the
fact that it had to jump back the way it came, which does seem a bit
weird. How high was the water level compared to this 2cm space? Like
1cm from the water up to that area, or 5 cm? 1 or 2 cm can't be any
problem for a betta to jump, even though it has to hit that specific
small area.

I won't believe for one second that cyanobacteria or ammonia or pH
variations or anything else similar will cause a bettas fins to tatter
overnight. It sounds from your description that the fins are
physically ripped apart; these other "chemical" types of things, if
they are so bad as to cause a problem, would be likely to cause fins
to rot away over time, as if the fish has fin and tail rot, don't you
think?

Bettas fins always grow back out by themselves, don't do anything
different than what you usually do with the bettas.

-Derek
 




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