how communicable are diseases?

Well, today we noticed one of the comets hanging out at the top of the
pond gulping air and being a little listless. Another downside of the
algae bloom, it's hard to see what's going on. We scooped him out and
took a look, and the poor little guy is pretty messed up. One of his
front fins is almost gone, he's got a worm hanging off his back, and a
nice fuzzy patch of fungus on one side. I can't tell if there's an
ulcer under the fugus, or if it's just fugus...

So, he's in a hospital tank full of our pond water. I've been testing
the water somewhat obsessively and it seems fine. Ammonia is 0,
Nitrates are around 2 and Nitrites are 0.25. We put in some medecines
for fin rot, external parasites, fugal infections, I don't know how
much that stuff helps but I figure it's worth a shot.

How likely is it that any of this stuff will catch onto the other fish?
They are both fine so far, the new guy that's only been in there a
couple of days (possibly the carrier?) has no signs of anything. I'll
obviously keep a close eye on them, but should I expect them to be
next?

wrote in message
oups.com...

Well, today we noticed one of the comets hanging out at the top of the
pond gulping air and being a little listless. Another downside of the
algae bloom, it's hard to see what's going on. We scooped him out and
took a look, and the poor little guy is pretty messed up. One of his
front fins is almost gone, he's got a worm hanging off his back, and a
nice fuzzy patch of fungus on one side. I can't tell if there's an
ulcer under the fugus, or if it's just fugus...

## It sounds like your pond is in need of help... the worm on his back is
probably an anchor worm. They're contagious. Dimilin will get rid of them.
KoiZyme will seriously help prevent ulcers. Fungus as well? I think you
need to do some water changes and perhaps remove some of your fish.

So, he's in a hospital tank full of our pond water.

## I don't think you're pondwater is too healthy. You may want to do water
changes on this hospital tank as well.

I've been testing
the water somewhat obsessively and it seems fine. Ammonia is 0,
Nitrates are around 2 and Nitrites are 0.25. We put in some medecines
for fin rot, external parasites, fugal infections, I don't know how
much that stuff helps but I figure it's worth a shot.

How likely is it that any of this stuff will catch onto the other fish?

## Very likely. There are other things that dissolve in pond water over
time besides Nitrates etc. How large is your pond and how many fish are in
it. What is the PH?

They are both fine so far, the new guy that's only been in there a
couple of days (possibly the carrier?) has no signs of anything. I'll
obviously keep a close eye on them, but should I expect them to be
next?

## Please look into quarantining all new fish. Better that than exposing
your resident fish to disease and parasites.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/crtso
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

## Very likely. There are other things that dissolve in pond water over
time besides Nitrates etc. How large is your pond and how many fish are in
it. What is the PH?

Here is my water:

Ammonia: 0 (as far as I can tell, the dip stick does not change color
and has no green in it)
Nitrites: 0.25
Nitrates: 20
GH: 300
KH: 120
pH: ~8

Pond is 120 gallons, 3 2" goldfish in it. It's been up about 2 weeks
now, this is the second fish loss. The first one had no obvious signs
of disease like this one did.

He died overnight, I think we got the meds on him too late, thanks to
our new pond algae bloom we didn't notice something was wrong for a
while I guess. He was in pretty bad shape by the time we fished him
out.

What should I do? Drain the pond and refill? Half water change? Pull
the other fish out and give them pre-emptive drugs? Leave the fish in
and keep an eye on them?

wrote in message
oups.com...

## Very likely. There are other things that dissolve in pond water over
time besides Nitrates etc. How large is your pond and how many fish are
in
it. What is the PH?

Here is my water:

Ammonia: 0 (as far as I can tell, the dip stick does not change color
and has no green in it)
Nitrites: 0.25
Nitrates: 20
GH: 300
KH: 120
pH: ~8

## It's odd that you have no ammonia after only 2 weeks. Your pond cycled
unusually fast??!?!?!!?!

Pond is 120 gallons, 3 2" goldfish in it. It's been up about 2 weeks
now, this is the second fish loss. The first one had no obvious signs
of disease like this one did.

## Were these feeder fish? I suppose they weren't quarantined before you
added them to the little pond. After bringing in all kinds of parasites in
the past I quarantine EVERYTHING I purchase now - for at least 21 days!
Even the cleanest Aquarium stores can have infested fish. I learned that
the hard way. :-(

He died overnight, I think we got the meds on him too late, thanks to
our new pond algae bloom we didn't notice something was wrong for a
while I guess. He was in pretty bad shape by the time we fished him
out.

What should I do? Drain the pond and refill? Half water change?

## Advice will vary but I would do a partial water change and remove the
remaining fish for treatment. I now go by the rule "If one fish has a
disease - they all have the disease."

Pull
the other fish out and give them pre-emptive drugs? Leave the fish in
and keep an eye on them?

## I would treat them all. The anchor worms spread rapidly leaving sores
that can get infected..... that can be a mess to clean up.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/crtso
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 10:52:04 -0500, "Reel Mckoi"
wrote:

snip
=== After bringing in all kinds of parasites in
===the past I quarantine EVERYTHING
READ: She now uses condoms
===
snipi
=== "If one fish has a
===disease - they all have the disease."
READ: Fish = Husbands.......
snip


===
===## I would treat them all. The anchor worms spread rapidly leaving sores
===that can get infected..... that can be a mess to clean up.

READ:
Treat them all to divorice papers, and numerous trips to county heath
department is needed.

==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder"
~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o

"~Roy~" a SICK TROLL wrote in message
...
On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 10:52:04 -0500, "Reel Mckoi"
wrote:

snip
=== After bringing in all kinds of parasites in
===the past I quarantine EVERYTHING
READ: She now uses condoms

## Don't you ever get tired of TROLLING this NG? Do you ever think about
anything besides sex?

===
snipi
=== "If one fish has a
===disease - they all have the disease."
READ: Fish = Husbands.......
snip

## Don't you low-class uneducated trash ever get tired of TROLLING NGs? Do
you ever think about anything besides sex?

===## I would treat them all. The anchor worms spread rapidly leaving
sores
===that can get infected..... that can be a mess to clean up.

READ:
Treat them all to divorice papers, and numerous trips to county heath
department is needed.

## Don't you low-class underachieving trash ever get tired of TROLLING NGs?
Do you ever think about anything besides sex? Surely professional help is
available even in the backwaters and hollows where you slime your way
through life.....

==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!

## Don't you low-class underachieving uneducated trash ever get tired of
TROLLING NGs? Do you ever think about anything besides sex?

"The original frugal ponder"
~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/crtso
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

## It's odd that you have no ammonia after only 2 weeks. Your pond cycled
unusually fast??!?!?!!?!

Honestly I have no idea what's going on with the pond. It's been filled
with water for 2 weeks, 3 days and had fish/plants for 2 weeks, 1 day.
I've been testing ammonia and nitrites daily for the past 8 days and I
haven't seen a single drop of ammonia. After the fish death last week I
added some starter bacteria, for what it's worth, supposedly it was
good stuff guaranteed to be alive kept refridgerated during shipping,
etc. Maybe that has kept the ammonia at bay?

Meanwhile algae has grown like crazy, and my plants look like crap. I'm
going to take the iris' out tonight and add fertilizer pellets, because
they look like they're about to give up. The water hyacinth are brown
and ugly and doses of potash haven't helped at all. The anacharis are
growing like crazy however.


## Were these feeder fish? I suppose they weren't quarantined before you
added them to the little pond. After bringing in all kinds of parasites in
the past I quarantine EVERYTHING I purchase now - for at least 21 days!
Even the cleanest Aquarium stores can have infested fish. I learned that
the hard way. :-(

No, I didn't quarantine, I figured they were all new so why bother? Of
course now I see that it would be easier to disinfect the little tank
than the big pond... I wonder if the lily I mail ordered came with some
parasites... It had some worms on it, but they fell off when I soaked
it and died after 30 minutes in the water. Maybe there were some other
buggies on there...


## Advice will vary but I would do a partial water change and remove the
remaining fish for treatment. I now go by the rule "If one fish has a
disease - they all have the disease."

Ok, I bought some dimlin to kill the anchor worms. We'll keep an eye on
the fish and hope they don't catch anything, if they do we'll do an
immediate treatment. I'm tempted to salt the pond, but I'd have to take
all the plants out. Not sure how much damage that would do to my
nitrogen cycling. Plus we're having a big outdoor party this weekend
and I'd like the pond to look somewhat presentable (I already have my
algae is a natural part of the balancing ecosystem speech down).

wrote in message
oups.com...

## It's odd that you have no ammonia after only 2 weeks. Your pond
cycled
unusually fast??!?!?!!?!

Honestly I have no idea what's going on with the pond. It's been filled
with water for 2 weeks, 3 days and had fish/plants for 2 weeks, 1 day.

## Usually the ammonia shows up in less than 48 hours when fish are present.
In my experience anyway.....

I've been testing ammonia and nitrites daily for the past 8 days and I
haven't seen a single drop of ammonia.

## I'm wondering about your ammonia test kit. Is it NEW and FRESH? Did you
recently purchase it at a shop where things sell quickly? There's a store
in a nearby town where stuff sits for months and months, if not years. The
companies who make these items should be required to date them.

After the fish death last week I
added some starter bacteria, for what it's worth, supposedly it was
good stuff guaranteed to be alive kept refridgerated during shipping,
etc. Maybe that has kept the ammonia at bay?

## Who can say....

Meanwhile algae has grown like crazy, and my plants look like crap. I'm
going to take the iris' out tonight and add fertilizer pellets, because
they look like they're about to give up. The water hyacinth are brown
and ugly and doses of potash haven't helped at all. The anacharis are
growing like crazy however.

## Sometimes dumping out the water and starting all over again is the only
answer. We once had some kind of disgusting blobby, slimy blue-black algae
invade our 2000 gallon pond. It was growing everywhere and on everything.
It was clogging the filter and spitter heads. It had a bad odor. We
finally drained down the pond, hosed everything off and started again. It
never came back and we never knew what it was.

## Were these feeder fish? I suppose they weren't quarantined before
you
added them to the little pond. After bringing in all kinds of parasites
in
the past I quarantine EVERYTHING I purchase now - for at least 21 days!
Even the cleanest Aquarium stores can have infested fish. I learned
that
the hard way. :-(

No, I didn't quarantine, I figured they were all new so why bother? Of
course now I see that it would be easier to disinfect the little tank
than the big pond...

## Exactly! Keep any diseases or infestations contained in a smaller tank
or tub. No use letting them lose in your pond where it's harder to
eradicate them. It's also cheaper to treat them as you'll use a lot less of
the medication. I hold them for 21 days and watch them carefully. Since
breeding my own fish I don't often purchase any anymore. :-)

I wonder if the lily I mail ordered came with some
parasites... It had some worms on it, but they fell off when I soaked
it and died after 30 minutes in the water. Maybe there were some other
buggies on there...

## There's no way to know. Some pond-plant places I've been to keep
goldfish or other fish to keep mosquitoes down. How healthy these fish are
is questionable.

## Advice will vary but I would do a partial water change and remove
the
remaining fish for treatment. I now go by the rule "If one fish has a
disease - they all have the disease."

Ok, I bought some dimlin to kill the anchor worms. We'll keep an eye on
the fish and hope they don't catch anything, if they do we'll do an
immediate treatment. I'm tempted to salt the pond, but I'd have to take
all the plants out. Not sure how much damage that would do to my
nitrogen cycling. Plus we're having a big outdoor party this weekend
and I'd like the pond to look somewhat presentable (I already have my
algae is a natural part of the balancing ecosystem speech down).

## I would definately do partial water changes .... and check out how FRESH
that ammonia kit is.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/crtso
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

Here is my water:

Ammonia: 0 (as far as I can tell, the dip stick does not change color
and has no green in it)

There's your problem, dip sticks really don't catch small amounts of
ammonia. 2 bottle tests kits for ammonia are best, but check the expiration
date (especially on dip sticks).

Nitrites: 0.25

This number alone tells me that you've probably had/have ammonia in there.

Nitrates: 20
GH: 300
KH: 120
pH: ~8

Pond is 120 gallons, 3 2" goldfish in it. It's been up about 2 weeks
now, this is the second fish loss. The first one had no obvious signs
of disease like this one did.

The rest of your numbers are fine. As RTB has asked, what is the aeration,
is pump/filter running 24/7?

Don't feel too bad about the goldfish, especially if it was the feeder
variety, it is not uncommon to lose some. Don't buy or add any more till
the water clears up. Do not start over. Add some salt. 1 lb will give you
approx. 0.1% which will protect the fish against the nitrite and won't hurt
the plants, though you might want to take out some of the anacharis just in
case.

Pick up some ammonia detox, add it even if your dip stick says zero.
Especially if doing a water change. Ammonia detox chemicals usually also
dechlorinate.

Party time. Do 10% water changes using the Ammonia detox every day
before the party. This should help clean it up significantly yet not throw
off the cycling. ~ jan


See my ponds and filter design:
www.jjspond.us

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

One of the symptoms you described for the fish that died, was hanging at the
surface in the morning. This is usually a sign of lack of oxygen. The
worst time of day for low oxygen is first thing in the morning. The fish
have been using it, the algae has been using it and the anacharis and other
submerged plants have been consuming. During the day, the greens produce
oxygen, but reverse at night. Do you have any type of good waterfall,
aeration, or other means of vigorously stirring the water surface to
increase oxygen. Once the algae is gone, the load on oxygen will decrease
some, but aeration of some type is always good.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html

wrote in message
oups.com...

Well, today we noticed one of the comets hanging out at the top of the
pond gulping air and being a little listless. Another downside of the
algae bloom, it's hard to see what's going on. We scooped him out and
took a look, and the poor little guy is pretty messed up. One of his
front fins is almost gone, he's got a worm hanging off his back, and a
nice fuzzy patch of fungus on one side. I can't tell if there's an
ulcer under the fugus, or if it's just fugus...

So, he's in a hospital tank full of our pond water. I've been testing
the water somewhat obsessively and it seems fine. Ammonia is 0,
Nitrates are around 2 and Nitrites are 0.25. We put in some medecines
for fin rot, external parasites, fugal infections, I don't know how
much that stuff helps but I figure it's worth a shot.

How likely is it that any of this stuff will catch onto the other fish?
They are both fine so far, the new guy that's only been in there a
couple of days (possibly the carrier?) has no signs of anything. I'll
obviously keep a close eye on them, but should I expect them to be
next?