Clown Loaches--sick?

I named them Skitter and Scatter, because they are neurotically shy.
They have developed a new hobby, or they are slowly dying, of laying on
their sides together behind a planter. Slightly worried. Last night I
assumed one was dying, then this morning when I went to scoop out its
corpse (sadly, because this is fast becoming my favorite species of
fish) it was fine. Now they are doing it again. Any opinions?

Jamie

55 gal, planted
3 watts/gal

2 clown loaches, approx 3"
3 angelfish, 1" to 3"
2 otocinclus
3 harlequin rasboras
1 betta, Tony

"Jamie Drilling" wrote in message
oups.com...
I named them Skitter and Scatter, because they are neurotically shy.
They have developed a new hobby, or they are slowly dying, of laying on
their sides together behind a planter. Slightly worried. Last night I
assumed one was dying, then this morning when I went to scoop out its
corpse (sadly, because this is fast becoming my favorite species of
fish) it was fine. Now they are doing it again. Any opinions?
============================
Clowns will sleep this way. They are not dying. :-)
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Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
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Bottom posted.
Jamie Drilling wrote:
I named them Skitter and Scatter, because they are neurotically shy.
They have developed a new hobby, or they are slowly dying, of laying
on their sides together behind a planter. Slightly worried. Last
night I assumed one was dying, then this morning when I went to scoop
out its corpse (sadly, because this is fast becoming my favorite
species of fish) it was fine. Now they are doing it again. Any
opinions?

Jamie

55 gal, planted
3 watts/gal

2 clown loaches, approx 3"
3 angelfish, 1" to 3"
2 otocinclus
3 harlequin rasboras
1 betta, Tony

I'm betting your clowns are playing dead (messing with your head), they are
"clowns" after all and from what I've read are great comedians! Good luck
and later!

On 29 Jan 2006 22:01:09 -0800, "Jamie Drilling"
wrote:

I named them Skitter and Scatter, because they are neurotically shy.
They have developed a new hobby, or they are slowly dying, of laying on
their sides together behind a planter. Slightly worried. Last night I
assumed one was dying, then this morning when I went to scoop out its
corpse (sadly, because this is fast becoming my favorite species of
fish) it was fine. Now they are doing it again. Any opinions?

Jamie

55 gal, planted
3 watts/gal

2 clown loaches, approx 3"
3 angelfish, 1" to 3"
2 otocinclus
3 harlequin rasboras
1 betta, Tony

Clowns die many times before their bodies are dead! g I have 11 in
3 tanks. I worried the first few weeks over their lifeless "looking"
bodies. Now they have hideouts and I miss seeing their deadly antics.

dick

Jamie Drilling wrote:
I named them Skitter and Scatter, because they are neurotically shy.
They have developed a new hobby, or they are slowly dying, of laying on
their sides together behind a planter. Slightly worried. Last night I
assumed one was dying, then this morning when I went to scoop out its
corpse (sadly, because this is fast becoming my favorite species of
fish) it was fine. Now they are doing it again. Any opinions?

Jamie

55 gal, planted
3 watts/gal

2 clown loaches, approx 3"
3 angelfish, 1" to 3"
2 otocinclus
3 harlequin rasboras
1 betta, Tony


That's the "Clown Pile" you might have seen mentioned. It's perfectly
normal behavior, believe it or not.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

Elaine T wrote in news:dGtDf.20548$Jd.7178
@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net:

That's the "Clown Pile" you might have seen mentioned. It's perfectly
normal behavior, believe it or not.

It's not really "normal". Clowns will mob together, but they generally do
it to this extreme when they are very stressed. A happy clown mob will be
active and exploring the tank together, not lying down and cramming
themselves behind a planter.

"Jamie Drilling" wrote in
oups.com:

I named them Skitter and Scatter, because they are neurotically shy.
They have developed a new hobby, or they are slowly dying, of laying on
their sides together behind a planter. Slightly worried. Last night I

Clown loaches are very social fish. The more of them you have the less
stressed they will be and they more you will see them.

How long have you had them in your tank? Sometimes they can take a quite
while to get used to a new tank. Give them as many single entrance caves
and hideaways as you can. Eventually they should calm down.

I always suggest people keep a minimum of three clown loaches. These fish
tend to form a kind of hierarchy amongst themselves in a group, with just
two fish you will always have one dominant and one stressed subservient
fish. Though it is not easy to see the quarreling, it will become evident
with time to the careful observer that one is generally more stressed and
less well fed than the other when you only keep a pair.

Clowns also like a softer slightly acidic water, so check your pH. I have
clown loaches in my Altum angelfish tank, and they are very bold and always
out asking for food, but I also have a mob of least seven of them in there.

Some people have luck with singles or pairs, but it will take longer for
them to calm down and adjust to their surroundings. Most of the clowns
available in the trade are wild caught fish, so it can take a while for
them to adjust to aquarium life.

On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 19:07:19 -0600, dc wrote:

"Jamie Drilling" wrote in
roups.com:

I named them Skitter and Scatter, because they are neurotically shy.
They have developed a new hobby, or they are slowly dying, of laying on
their sides together behind a planter. Slightly worried. Last night I

Clown loaches are very social fish. The more of them you have the less
stressed they will be and they more you will see them.

How long have you had them in your tank? Sometimes they can take a quite
while to get used to a new tank. Give them as many single entrance caves
and hideaways as you can. Eventually they should calm down.

Share your experience, but be aware there are lots of us with Clowns
that have different experience. If you are addressing "newbies" be
cautious how you state your experience. Passing on politically
correct and oft stated generalities, in my opinion, is less than
worthless. If your advice is followed many fine fish opportunities
will be missed.


I always suggest people keep a minimum of three clown loaches. These fish
tend to form a kind of hierarchy amongst themselves in a group, with just
two fish you will always have one dominant and one stressed subservient
fish. Though it is not easy to see the quarreling, it will become evident
with time to the careful observer that one is generally more stressed and
less well fed than the other when you only keep a pair.

It ain't necessarily so! I have yet to see my 11 Clowns quarrel. The
pair in a 10 gallon tank are just as lively at feedings as those in
the larger tanks.

Clowns also like a softer slightly acidic water, so check your pH. I have
clown loaches in my Altum angelfish tank, and they are very bold and always
out asking for food, but I also have a mob of least seven of them in there.

I know we seem to get a variety of opinions in the aquatic groups as
to size, behavior, etc of fish. For example, my loaches are in pH of
7.6. Might they be happier in "slightly acidic water"? Who knows, I
am happy with what I have.

Some people have luck with singles or pairs, but it will take longer for
them to calm down and adjust to their surroundings. Most of the clowns
available in the trade are wild caught fish, so it can take a while for
them to adjust to aquarium life.


I have 2 Clown Loaches in a 10 gallon tank along with 1 SAE and
several Platys. They are just as content as the 6 in a 75 gallon and
the 3 in a 29 gallon. I have enjoyed them from their first entry into
my tanks. Their behavior has changed over the years, but I actually
miss the early behavior. If that was stress, perhaps I need to stir
thinks up, but I think plant growth has provided screens and filled
open spaces and thus brought about the behavior change.

The main problem, I have experienced with Clowns is Ich. I order all
my fish, plants, food, etc. over the internet. I received 6 Clowns
that had Ich. It didn't spread to the community, but most died. The
vendor was most apologetic and shipped 7 to me after getting in a
fresh stock and quarantining them for awhile. They arrived fine.

dick

Dick wrote in
:

Share your experience, but be aware there are lots of us with Clowns
that have different experience. If you are addressing "newbies" be
cautious how you state your experience. Passing on politically
correct and oft stated generalities, in my opinion, is less than
worthless. If your advice is followed many fine fish opportunities
will be missed.

That's not a generality, but your assumptions of my statements are.
Your statement on political correctness doesn't make much sense at all,
except to pass off an oddly phrased criticism.

This is an observation based on research and experience. All loaches
enjoy hiding spaces. I've observed they appear to enjoy large single
entrance caves more than any other kind of cover. It appears to calm
them down if they only have to keep watch one entrance. Instead of
piling underneath one another in an attempt not to be seen, the loaches
hang about in a much more relaxed fashion and breathe much less heavily.
The more hideaways they have in a tank, the less likely they are to use
them.

At any one time I am looking after 80 to 300 clown loaches at work, not
to mention the mob of mature loaches I keep in my own personal tank.



It ain't necessarily so! I have yet to see my 11 Clowns quarrel. The
pair in a 10 gallon tank are just as lively at feedings as those in
the larger tanks.

I don't think you really understood what I said. The loaches don't
fight with each other in any obvious manner, but they do generally
establish hierarchies amongst themselves. This has been documented in a
lot of available literature and I agree with it based on my
observations.

These are not aggressive fishes. The most you will ever probably be
able to interpret from their behaviour is a bit of shoving come feeding
time. Less dominate loaches sometimes tend to shy away until the
dominate loaches have gorged themselves. Wait until some of your eleven
loaches get at least 6" long... there should be some very obvious weight
and attitude classes by then.

That all said, it is not universally true. Fish of the same species can
sometimes have radically different personalities which are only more
differentiated via the nurture of their environment.



I know we seem to get a variety of opinions in the aquatic groups as
to size, behavior, etc of fish. For example, my loaches are in pH of
7.6. Might they be happier in "slightly acidic water"? Who knows, I
am happy with what I have.

Slightly acidic conditions match the kind of environment they evolved to
live in. Most healthy fish can adapt to very different water
conditions, so long as they aren't too radically different.

A stressed loach with be further stressed by being kept in an improper
pH. Adjusting your pH to suit them can often help a stressed fish
recover from stress faster. A healthy calm loach probably isn't even
phased by slightly alkaline water, and will easily produce a little
extra body slim to compensate.


my tanks. Their behavior has changed over the years, but I actually
miss the early behavior. If that was stress, perhaps I need to stir
thinks up, but I think plant growth has provided screens and filled
open spaces and thus brought about the behavior change.

That is percisely why building large caves is one of the best thing to
help a stressed loach. They don't like open spaces. Plants take a
while to grow in, a good cave can be built in 30 seconds.


The main problem, I have experienced with Clowns is Ich. I order all
my fish, plants, food, etc. over the internet. I received 6 Clowns
that had Ich. It didn't spread to the community, but most died.

Yes, loaches are extremely susceptible to ich. As you may or may not
know, ich is a stress related disease. The mere presence of the
parasite in the water and substrate is not generally enough for the
disease to manifest itself. A fish with a healthy immune system can
usually easily resist the simple parasite.

Loaches are extremely prone to stress. High stress levels mean high
cortisol levels which eventually leads to immune system fallout, which
is what gives ich the edge over loaches.

Ever since I've been providing newly imported clown loaches with large
well constructed caves I've seen our ich infection rates drop to zero.

Ever since I've been providing newly imported clown loaches with large
well constructed caves I've seen our ich infection rates drop to zero.

Now THAT is valuable information. How large relative to the loach and
how do you suggest constructing them? Should the entrance be similar
to the size of the fish or are larger openings OK?