Red Growth

I have been getting a lotof red growth on my LR in my reef tank that has been
set up for about 1.5 yrs now. It doesnt appear to be red hair algae but more
of a reddish fuzzz. Any ideas? Water levels a

temp: 78
PH 8.2
Nirtites 0
Nitrates (been ranging between 40 & 80)
Ammonia 0

"Disney Trivia Ron" wrote in message
...
| I have been getting a lotof red growth on my LR in my reef tank
that has been
| set up for about 1.5 yrs now. It doesnt appear to be red hair
algae but more
| of a reddish fuzzz. Any ideas? Water levels a
|
| temp: 78
| PH 8.2
| Nirtites 0
| Nitrates (been ranging between 40 & 80)
| Ammonia 0
|
|

I have that red fuzz, too, so I'm hoping someone answeres, but why
are you permitting such High nitrate levels?? I wouldn't even allow
that in my freshwater tanks.



--

billy
--
Need tech help?
news://news.winextra.com

Hi, any ideas yet? I also have had a recent uprising of red fuzz. Im also
battleing my nitrates to get them down. at 40 now, have done 3 water
changes in last 2 weeks and gotten it down from 60. (I have a 90 gal tank
with 60ish gallons in sump filter in basement. I always assumed the red
algae is from the nitrates but any other info let me know


"Disney Trivia Ron" wrote in message
...
I have been getting a lotof red growth on my LR in my reef tank that has
been
set up for about 1.5 yrs now. It doesnt appear to be red hair algae but
more
of a reddish fuzzz. Any ideas? Water levels a

temp: 78
PH 8.2
Nirtites 0
Nitrates (been ranging between 40 & 80)
Ammonia 0

Oh thank god!!! I've struggled with red fuzz forever, and I've never gotten
anyone on here to even acknowledge it. It was like it existed only in my tank
and no one else ever heard of it. I do get red slime, and assumed the fuzz was
the start of a slime bloom.

Everyone always tells me to increase circulation and that WILL fix my problem.
But it doesnt. The fuzz is right in strong current and you can see it
waving,but it clings to the substrate regardless.

I'm just relieved I'm not the only one. A diagnosis and recommendation would be
too much to hope for :-)


Disney Trivia Ron wrote:

I have been getting a lotof red growth on my LR in my reef tank that has been
set up for about 1.5 yrs now. It doesnt appear to be red hair algae but more
of a reddish fuzzz. Any ideas? Water levels a

temp: 78
PH 8.2
Nirtites 0
Nitrates (been ranging between 40 & 80)
Ammonia 0

"Phil O'Connor" wrote in message
...
Oh thank god!!! I've struggled with red fuzz forever, and I've never
gotten
anyone on here to even acknowledge it. It was like it existed only in my
tank
and no one else ever heard of it. I do get red slime, and assumed the
fuzz was
the start of a slime bloom.

Everyone always tells me to increase circulation and that WILL fix my
problem.
But it doesnt. The fuzz is right in strong current and you can see it
waving,but it clings to the substrate regardless.

I'm just relieved I'm not the only one. A diagnosis and recommendation
would be
too much to hope for :-)


Every tank will have Red [and other color] algae. I have some very small
spot but will be gone eventually. I welcome red and other color algae to be
growth so it can be feed to my shrimps and tangs and clown. But in your case
is different since you probably have an abunden of them. My guess is your
have alot of nutrient in your water which feed your algae. These nutrient
can be from the food you feed to your fish. Double check how you feed your
fish and what food you feed them. Some food will leak extra nutrient to the
water instead of consume by your fish. The other thing will encourage your
algae growth is the light spectrum. Good lamp will not promote since within
the spectrim range. How long have you use that lamp? Next is to look what
type of filter you are using or effecient enough. In marine tank, you will
be looking at Live Rock / Live Sand / Protein Skimmer / janitoral crew
[shrimp/snail etc]. Protein Skimmer is very important since it will gather
and filter out any floating nutrient / floating particale from the water
circulation. Anything that is heavy, will sink down to the bottom [sand] or
to the Rock and will consume by those janitoral crew. And if those food is
miss, it will decay and release nutrient. Bacteria from the sand and Protein
Skimmer will finish that off.

Check if you overfeed.
Or the food you put in.
Check your lamp and how long it been use.
Check your PS is working properly.
Check your cleanup crew [janitoral] is there or enough.
Check your sand if it trap debris. If it does, it maybe decaying some meat
or food.

Check if anything is eating your algae. If it can not consume enough to be
incheck, you will need to manually remove it yourself by sipon or suck it
out. Not recommend just simply pull it or cut it since you going to release
nutrient during that process.

Whatever color algae you have, the general requirement for it to grow is the
basically the same.
http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/abo...aa043099_2.htm
http://www.melevsreef.com/gha.html

CapFusion,...

Cap,

Thanks for the input. My biggest frustration is just wanting to know what the
h the stuff is. I thought it was slime (which does exist) but I've been told
here beyond any doubt the slime will not adhere to the substrate under current.
Whereas this stuff clearly hangs on with the current blowing right on it. And
it is fuzzy. But I have 2 problems, the red slime, and then more recently an
orange fuzz/slime that people here have deemed dinoflaggelates. Actually, the
red seems to be subsiding, but the orange happily marches on.

As for the issues you bring up:

I have a 46 bowfront FOWLR. I run an aqua C Remora which should be
sufficient.

I have an Emperor filter (i forget the model number, its the double) which is
rated for that size tank.

Live rock, I dont have much. Certainly not enough for filtration, just some for
shelter, decoration, and food source. probably only 15lbs.

Crushed coral substrate.

My humu trigger eats all my snails and crabs, so no janitorial crew to speak
of. Some have survived (dunno why), but I've stopped replacing them, as the
trigger starts snacking the minute I put new ones in. Perhaps this is the area
I need to rethink.

I stay on top of the lamps, those are fresh and current. (Coralife 10000K)

My RO filter may be lacking. I have my own unit. I always figured it was fine
since my 7 gal nano reef uses the same water source but has had none of these
problems. But just recently, I see some green hair and diatoms in the nano reef
for the first time ever (2 year old). So I just replaced my membrane and
prefilters. Perhaps the other tank was symptomatic earlier for some reason, but
same cause. Just starting to work in the new water now....too early to tell.

I have 3 powerheads, 2 of them down near the substrate. No dead spots at all.
very strong current.

Feeding: I normally feed some Formula One pellets (actually the orange slime
appeared right around the time I switched to this food source), for the tang
and damsels, plus some sundried baby shrimp for the trigger. once a day. Then
some seaweed (nori) later in the day. Occaisionally, I'll feed frozen
(sal****er multipak) for variety, and some fresh squid for the trigger. so
once a day some food, and once a day some nori. they seem to consume it all.
Generally a pellet or two will hit the ground and be forgotten, with no
janitors, but shouldnt my filtration be able to handle that?

There is nothing eating my algae to my knowledge. My naso tang will nibble it
from the glass on occaision, but certainly not as regular practice.

Again, thanks for the help, and if anything here is setting a red light off,
let me know.
Phil







CapFusion wrote:




Every tank will have Red [and other color] algae. I have some very small
spot but will be gone eventually. I welcome red and other color algae to be
growth so it can be feed to my shrimps and tangs and clown. But in your case
is different since you probably have an abunden of them. My guess is your
have alot of nutrient in your water which feed your algae. These nutrient
can be from the food you feed to your fish. Double check how you feed your
fish and what food you feed them. Some food will leak extra nutrient to the
water instead of consume by your fish. The other thing will encourage your
algae growth is the light spectrum. Good lamp will not promote since within
the spectrim range. How long have you use that lamp? Next is to look what
type of filter you are using or effecient enough. In marine tank, you will
be looking at Live Rock / Live Sand / Protein Skimmer / janitoral crew
[shrimp/snail etc]. Protein Skimmer is very important since it will gather
and filter out any floating nutrient / floating particale from the water
circulation. Anything that is heavy, will sink down to the bottom [sand] or
to the Rock and will consume by those janitoral crew. And if those food is
miss, it will decay and release nutrient. Bacteria from the sand and Protein
Skimmer will finish that off.

Check if you overfeed.
Or the food you put in.
Check your lamp and how long it been use.
Check your PS is working properly.
Check your cleanup crew [janitoral] is there or enough.
Check your sand if it trap debris. If it does, it maybe decaying some meat
or food.

Check if anything is eating your algae. If it can not consume enough to be
incheck, you will need to manually remove it yourself by sipon or suck it
out. Not recommend just simply pull it or cut it since you going to release
nutrient during that process.

Whatever color algae you have, the general requirement for it to grow is the
basically the same.
http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/abo...aa043099_2.htm
http://www.melevsreef.com/gha.html

CapFusion,...

A picture would be nice. There are a couple of possibilities.

Here's one:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-12/nftt/index.htm

Or does it look like this?

http://www.melevsreef.com/pics/macna15/sp_redalgae.jpg

Marc


Phil O'Connor wrote:

Cap,

Thanks for the input. My biggest frustration is just wanting to know what the
h the stuff is. I thought it was slime (which does exist) but I've been told
here beyond any doubt the slime will not adhere to the substrate under current.
Whereas this stuff clearly hangs on with the current blowing right on it. And
it is fuzzy. But I have 2 problems, the red slime, and then more recently an
orange fuzz/slime that people here have deemed dinoflaggelates. Actually, the
red seems to be subsiding, but the orange happily marches on.

As for the issues you bring up:

I have a 46 bowfront FOWLR. I run an aqua C Remora which should be
sufficient.

I have an Emperor filter (i forget the model number, its the double) which is
rated for that size tank.

Live rock, I dont have much. Certainly not enough for filtration, just some for
shelter, decoration, and food source. probably only 15lbs.

Crushed coral substrate.

My humu trigger eats all my snails and crabs, so no janitorial crew to speak
of. Some have survived (dunno why), but I've stopped replacing them, as the
trigger starts snacking the minute I put new ones in. Perhaps this is the area
I need to rethink.

I stay on top of the lamps, those are fresh and current. (Coralife 10000K)

My RO filter may be lacking. I have my own unit. I always figured it was fine
since my 7 gal nano reef uses the same water source but has had none of these
problems. But just recently, I see some green hair and diatoms in the nano reef
for the first time ever (2 year old). So I just replaced my membrane and
prefilters. Perhaps the other tank was symptomatic earlier for some reason, but
same cause. Just starting to work in the new water now....too early to tell.

I have 3 powerheads, 2 of them down near the substrate. No dead spots at all.
very strong current.

Feeding: I normally feed some Formula One pellets (actually the orange slime
appeared right around the time I switched to this food source), for the tang
and damsels, plus some sundried baby shrimp for the trigger. once a day. Then
some seaweed (nori) later in the day. Occaisionally, I'll feed frozen
(sal****er multipak) for variety, and some fresh squid for the trigger. so
once a day some food, and once a day some nori. they seem to consume it all.
Generally a pellet or two will hit the ground and be forgotten, with no
janitors, but shouldnt my filtration be able to handle that?

There is nothing eating my algae to my knowledge. My naso tang will nibble it
from the glass on occaision, but certainly not as regular practice.

Again, thanks for the help, and if anything here is setting a red light off,
let me know.
Phil

CapFusion wrote:



Every tank will have Red [and other color] algae. I have some very small
spot but will be gone eventually. I welcome red and other color algae to be
growth so it can be feed to my shrimps and tangs and clown. But in your case
is different since you probably have an abunden of them. My guess is your
have alot of nutrient in your water which feed your algae. These nutrient
can be from the food you feed to your fish. Double check how you feed your
fish and what food you feed them. Some food will leak extra nutrient to the
water instead of consume by your fish. The other thing will encourage your
algae growth is the light spectrum. Good lamp will not promote since within
the spectrim range. How long have you use that lamp? Next is to look what
type of filter you are using or effecient enough. In marine tank, you will
be looking at Live Rock / Live Sand / Protein Skimmer / janitoral crew
[shrimp/snail etc]. Protein Skimmer is very important since it will gather
and filter out any floating nutrient / floating particale from the water
circulation. Anything that is heavy, will sink down to the bottom [sand] or
to the Rock and will consume by those janitoral crew. And if those food is
miss, it will decay and release nutrient. Bacteria from the sand and Protein
Skimmer will finish that off.

Check if you overfeed.
Or the food you put in.
Check your lamp and how long it been use.
Check your PS is working properly.
Check your cleanup crew [janitoral] is there or enough.
Check your sand if it trap debris. If it does, it maybe decaying some meat
or food.

Check if anything is eating your algae. If it can not consume enough to be
incheck, you will need to manually remove it yourself by sipon or suck it
out. Not recommend just simply pull it or cut it since you going to release
nutrient during that process.

Whatever color algae you have, the general requirement for it to grow is the
basically the same.
http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/abo...aa043099_2.htm
http://www.melevsreef.com/gha.html

CapFusion,...

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

I see couple thing I do not really like.
Crush Coral
Emperor Filter
Janitoral Crew

Other -
Food get trap in substrate which will decay - While being decay, it will
release nutrient.
No Janitoral crew to pick up any trash [sense of speaking] or scavaging

Double check your RO unit again with a TDS to see what the product water
rated at. Since you did not indicate any phospate so I am not to sure if RO
may contribute to it.

If I can remember from your previous post, you have like over 40ppm nitrate.
This will contribute food for algae.

I should have gave this link earlier but since Marc provide now.
Try this link -
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-12/nftt/index.htm
Try putting some Mexican Turbo snail and hopefully your Trigger will not
make a meal out of it. During that meantime, you will need to manual prume
and siphon out.

General speaking, I do not see your tank have much filter to remove excess
nutrient. But I do see as mechanical type filter due to your canister to
remove waste only and not really effecient enough. Your nitrate is your
obvious biggest problem. Canister / crush coral / decaying food are your
contributor. Your Protein Skimmer will not effeciently enough to remove it.
PS can not remove anything if it get stuck in your substrate until it
release and floating about in your current for it to remove it. That maybe
the reason why your subtrate and rock have algae.

CapFusion,...


"Phil O'Connor" wrote in message
...
Cap,

Thanks for the input. My biggest frustration is just wanting to know what
the
h the stuff is. I thought it was slime (which does exist) but I've been
told
here beyond any doubt the slime will not adhere to the substrate under
current.
Whereas this stuff clearly hangs on with the current blowing right on it.
And
it is fuzzy. But I have 2 problems, the red slime, and then more recently
an
orange fuzz/slime that people here have deemed dinoflaggelates. Actually,
the
red seems to be subsiding, but the orange happily marches on.

As for the issues you bring up:

I have a 46 bowfront FOWLR. I run an aqua C Remora which should be
sufficient.

I have an Emperor filter (i forget the model number, its the double) which
is
rated for that size tank.

Live rock, I dont have much. Certainly not enough for filtration, just
some for
shelter, decoration, and food source. probably only 15lbs.

Crushed coral substrate.

My humu trigger eats all my snails and crabs, so no janitorial crew to
speak
of. Some have survived (dunno why), but I've stopped replacing them, as
the
trigger starts snacking the minute I put new ones in. Perhaps this is the
area
I need to rethink.

I stay on top of the lamps, those are fresh and current. (Coralife 10000K)

My RO filter may be lacking. I have my own unit. I always figured it was
fine
since my 7 gal nano reef uses the same water source but has had none of
these
problems. But just recently, I see some green hair and diatoms in the nano
reef
for the first time ever (2 year old). So I just replaced my membrane and
prefilters. Perhaps the other tank was symptomatic earlier for some
reason, but
same cause. Just starting to work in the new water now....too early to
tell.

I have 3 powerheads, 2 of them down near the substrate. No dead spots at
all.
very strong current.

Feeding: I normally feed some Formula One pellets (actually the orange
slime
appeared right around the time I switched to this food source), for the
tang
and damsels, plus some sundried baby shrimp for the trigger. once a day.
Then
some seaweed (nori) later in the day. Occaisionally, I'll feed frozen
(sal****er multipak) for variety, and some fresh squid for the trigger.
so
once a day some food, and once a day some nori. they seem to consume it
all.
Generally a pellet or two will hit the ground and be forgotten, with no
janitors, but shouldnt my filtration be able to handle that?

There is nothing eating my algae to my knowledge. My naso tang will
nibble it
from the glass on occaision, but certainly not as regular practice.

Again, thanks for the help, and if anything here is setting a red light
off,
let me know.
Phil







CapFusion wrote:




Every tank will have Red [and other color] algae. I have some very small
spot but will be gone eventually. I welcome red and other color algae to
be
growth so it can be feed to my shrimps and tangs and clown. But in your
case
is different since you probably have an abunden of them. My guess is
your
have alot of nutrient in your water which feed your algae. These
nutrient
can be from the food you feed to your fish. Double check how you feed
your
fish and what food you feed them. Some food will leak extra nutrient to
the
water instead of consume by your fish. The other thing will encourage
your
algae growth is the light spectrum. Good lamp will not promote since
within
the spectrim range. How long have you use that lamp? Next is to look
what
type of filter you are using or effecient enough. In marine tank, you
will
be looking at Live Rock / Live Sand / Protein Skimmer / janitoral crew
[shrimp/snail etc]. Protein Skimmer is very important since it will
gather
and filter out any floating nutrient / floating particale from the water
circulation. Anything that is heavy, will sink down to the bottom [sand]
or
to the Rock and will consume by those janitoral crew. And if those food
is
miss, it will decay and release nutrient. Bacteria from the sand and
Protein
Skimmer will finish that off.

Check if you overfeed.
Or the food you put in.
Check your lamp and how long it been use.
Check your PS is working properly.
Check your cleanup crew [janitoral] is there or enough.
Check your sand if it trap debris. If it does, it maybe decaying some
meat
or food.

Check if anything is eating your algae. If it can not consume enough to
be
incheck, you will need to manually remove it yourself by sipon or suck
it
out. Not recommend just simply pull it or cut it since you going to
release
nutrient during that process.

Whatever color algae you have, the general requirement for it to grow is
the
basically the same.
http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/abo...aa043099_2.htm
http://www.melevsreef.com/gha.html

CapFusion,...

My Emperor filter is not a canister, but a hang-on-back powerfilter with
biowheels. Admittedly, I dont change the filter pads often enough, and I'm sure
they become nitrate booms. Thats an area I can improve. And I will repopulate
the janitorial crew. Good suggestions.

But I'm confused about your remark that I dont have enough filtration to remove
nutrients. My biological filter (be it the biowheels, liverock, or both) is
sufficent enough to keep ammonia and nitrate to zero. That just leaves
denitrification. And all I can do there is water changes, which is very slow,
and cant elimiate nitrates altogether. I cant put in a DSB at this point. I
could scale up my liverock, but the liverock in my nano reef fails to denitrify
at all, so I'm skeptical that it would be successful in my big tank.

Or do you mean that, for instance, a janitorial crew is part of a 'filter' to
remove nutrients? That I can understand.

So at this point, my plan of attack is more frequent vaccuming/water changes (I
get lazy *blush*), more frequent filter pad replacement, scale up janitorial
crew.

Other than that, I dont believe I'm understanding your objections to my Emperor
filter. And do see any value in putting more live rock in? Like I say, I've
had no success getting liverock to denitrify in my other tank, so I dont know
how to ensure that will work.

Thanks again, I really appreciate the help.
Phil


CapFusion wrote:

I see couple thing I do not really like.
Crush Coral
Emperor Filter
Janitoral Crew

Other -
Food get trap in substrate which will decay - While being decay, it will
release nutrient.
No Janitoral crew to pick up any trash [sense of speaking] or scavaging

Double check your RO unit again with a TDS to see what the product water
rated at. Since you did not indicate any phospate so I am not to sure if RO
may contribute to it.

If I can remember from your previous post, you have like over 40ppm nitrate.
This will contribute food for algae.

I should have gave this link earlier but since Marc provide now.
Try this link -
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-12/nftt/index.htm
Try putting some Mexican Turbo snail and hopefully your Trigger will not
make a meal out of it. During that meantime, you will need to manual prume
and siphon out.

General speaking, I do not see your tank have much filter to remove excess
nutrient. But I do see as mechanical type filter due to your canister to
remove waste only and not really effecient enough. Your nitrate is your
obvious biggest problem. Canister / crush coral / decaying food are your
contributor. Your Protein Skimmer will not effeciently enough to remove it.
PS can not remove anything if it get stuck in your substrate until it
release and floating about in your current for it to remove it. That maybe
the reason why your subtrate and rock have algae.

CapFusion,...

[snip]
"Phil O'Connor" wrote in message
...
My Emperor filter is not a canister, but a hang-on-back powerfilter with
biowheels. Admittedly, I dont change the filter pads often enough, and I'm
sure
they become nitrate booms. Thats an area I can improve. And I will
repopulate
the janitorial crew. Good suggestions.
[/snip]
Sorry, I was thinking of something else. Either way, canister or hangon
filter will produce nitrate and especially with bios-wheel. Maybe at the
time I wrote the message, I did not have enough caffeine.

[snip]
But I'm confused about your remark that I dont have enough filtration to
remove
nutrients. My biological filter (be it the biowheels, liverock, or both)
is
sufficent enough to keep ammonia and nitrate to zero. That just leaves
denitrification. And all I can do there is water changes, which is very
slow,
and cant elimiate nitrates altogether. I cant put in a DSB at this point.
I
could scale up my liverock, but the liverock in my nano reef fails to
denitrify
at all, so I'm skeptical that it would be successful in my big tank.

[/snip]
Mechnical filter like the filter hangon your tank will trap waste or large
particale. That the purpose of mechnical filter. It just simply filter and
trap large item that go through the media. Any smaller size will simply pass
through it and back to your tank. Those trap particle will be food for
bacteria to break down to nitrate. Nitrate will be the end result of the
cycle. Nothing in your tank or ecosystem will break down nitrate.

Your LR will not be effecient if you only have like 15lb of it for your
tank. Maybe 46lb or more should be consider. You indicate you have Live
Rock, does it have critter living in it or going on it beside algae? Seem
like algae is your friend in your tank to keep your nitrate lower. Without
algae, you may have higher nitrate then you have now.

Water changes is not really denitrification but diluting. You simply remove
a portion of water which may contain nitrate and other and putting in fresh
water without it to your current volume. You will need bacteria that live in
your sandbed to convert any nitrate that obsorb. And especially the decaying
food.

Maybe you should read this to find out about DSB and Denitrification.
http://www.rshimek.com/reef/sediment.htm

Since you do not really have senitive critter then nitrate should not be too
much problem regarding the health of your inhibitant. You simply get algae.

[snip]
Or do you mean that, for instance, a janitorial crew is part of a 'filter'
to
remove nutrients? That I can understand.
[/snip]
Yes, you can consider janitoral crew is part of filter. Even your Trigger if
it eat algae regularly.

[snip]
So at this point, my plan of attack is more frequent vaccuming/water
changes (I
get lazy *blush*), more frequent filter pad replacement, scale up
janitorial
crew.

[/snip]
It seem like this maybe only option in your situation.

[snip]
Other than that, I dont believe I'm understanding your objections to my
Emperor
filter. And do see any value in putting more live rock in? Like I say,
I've
had no success getting liverock to denitrify in my other tank, so I dont
know
how to ensure that will work.
[/snip]
LR will help clean any debris maybe floating and get trap. Those trapped
debris will get eaten either by bacteria or critter that roam about. It
almost the same as your mechnical filter [emperor] It trap debris that get
caught in it. LR will not be as effecient as DSB.


CapFusion,...