Clown and anenome relationship

Is the clown/anemone relationship a learned one or is it genetic? In other
words will a clown take to an anemone if he has never seen/witnessed another
clown fish in an anemone?

I am asking because I have a tank raised percula clown who is not taking to
my sebae or condy anemone.

thanks.

Think about this!
Water always runs downstream!
What I am trying to say is that animals pick their niche on an opportunistic
basis. The only reason clowns use an anemone to hide is because their skin
can tolerate or are immune to the anemone's stings.
In the wild, they will hide anywhere they can but, if an anemone is near by,
they are going to hide in their tentacles because their predators or
competition is not.
In your tank, your fish may not need the anemone because there is nothing to
hide from.
Other than the protection they get, there is no other reason to hide. If
they don't need protection, they are not going inside. Buy a fish that may
attack the clown and they will be forced to hide.
No, there is no genetically embedded code that makes them live inside the
condy, it will only use it if it needs it.
iy
"Stoutman" [email protected] wrote in message
. ..
Is the clown/anemone relationship a learned one or is it genetic? In
other words will a clown take to an anemone if he has never seen/witnessed
another clown fish in an anemone?

I am asking because I have a tank raised percula clown who is not taking
to my sebae or condy anemone.

thanks.

"Inabón Yunes" wrote on Sun, 3 Sep 2006 :
In your tank, your fish may not need the anemone because there is nothing
to hide from. Other than the protection they get, there is no other reason
to hide.

It's true that clowns live inside of anemones for protection from predators.
In a tank without predators, there is no "reason" to hide there.

If they don't need protection, they are not going inside.

You're completely wrong. It's been demonstrated time and time again in
captivity that clowns have an instinct to live inside (specific species of)
anemones, regardless of what else is in the tank.

Buy a fish that may attack the clown and they will be forced to hide.

A foolish suggestion. You'll merely terrorize the clown. I've heard of
zero evidence that a stressed clown hosts in an anemone more readily than
one at peace. You've given bad advice bordering on criminal: the only result
of following your advice will be a lot more panicked clownfish.

No, there is no genetically embedded code that makes them live inside the
condy, it will only use it if it needs it.

So many mistakes you've made. Yes, there is a genetic code to have clowns
host inside anemones (or, more generally, fleshing stinging corals). You can
prove this easily by raising a clown from an egg in isolation from any other
clownfish. They will easily host, and obviously could not have learned that
from another clown.

Secondly, you missed that the original poster said they had a percula clown,
and that for a clown/anemone pairing, the species matters. Perculas and
condys happen not to be natural (or common in captivity) pairs.

And finally, again, your whole "they'll only use it if they need it" thesis
is totally wrong.

Bad advice, all around.

-- Don
__________________________________________________ _____________________________
Don Geddis http://reef.geddis.org/
I'm not sure I believe everything in the Bible. But I think I would believe if
I opened it and found, say, a fifty-dollar bill, if you get my drift.
-- Deep Thoughts, by Jack Handey [1999]

Yep, clown fish *love* being in anemones, about as much as
cats love cat nip.

Clown fish don't need an anemone, but they are genetically
cued to take to anemones.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



Don Geddis wrote on 9/5/2006 6:21 PM:
"Inabón Yunes" wrote on Sun, 3 Sep 2006 :
In your tank, your fish may not need the anemone because there is nothing
to hide from. Other than the protection they get, there is no other reason
to hide.

It's true that clowns live inside of anemones for protection from predators.
In a tank without predators, there is no "reason" to hide there.

If they don't need protection, they are not going inside.

You're completely wrong. It's been demonstrated time and time again in
captivity that clowns have an instinct to live inside (specific species of)
anemones, regardless of what else is in the tank.

Buy a fish that may attack the clown and they will be forced to hide.

A foolish suggestion. You'll merely terrorize the clown. I've heard of
zero evidence that a stressed clown hosts in an anemone more readily than
one at peace. You've given bad advice bordering on criminal: the only result
of following your advice will be a lot more panicked clownfish.

No, there is no genetically embedded code that makes them live inside the
condy, it will only use it if it needs it.

So many mistakes you've made. Yes, there is a genetic code to have clowns
host inside anemones (or, more generally, fleshing stinging corals). You can
prove this easily by raising a clown from an egg in isolation from any other
clownfish. They will easily host, and obviously could not have learned that
from another clown.

Secondly, you missed that the original poster said they had a percula clown,
and that for a clown/anemone pairing, the species matters. Perculas and
condys happen not to be natural (or common in captivity) pairs.

And finally, again, your whole "they'll only use it if they need it" thesis
is totally wrong.

Bad advice, all around.

-- Don
__________________________________________________ _____________________________
Don Geddis http://reef.geddis.org/
I'm not sure I believe everything in the Bible. But I think I would believe if
I opened it and found, say, a fifty-dollar bill, if you get my drift.
-- Deep Thoughts, by Jack Handey [1999]

Can you give us the genetic code that triggers that behavior and the lab
that spent years coding the Clown's genome?
I didn't know that! but if you say so then you have proof of it. I guess iy
has a point, you are guessing. Can I laugh about the "genetical code to
have clowns host inside anemones", that was a good one.
G
"Don Geddis" wrote in message
...
"Inabón Yunes" wrote on Sun, 3 Sep 2006 :
In your tank, your fish may not need the anemone because there is nothing
to hide from. Other than the protection they get, there is no other
reason
to hide.

It's true that clowns live inside of anemones for protection from
predators.
In a tank without predators, there is no "reason" to hide there.

If they don't need protection, they are not going inside.

You're completely wrong. It's been demonstrated time and time again in
captivity that clowns have an instinct to live inside (specific species
of)
anemones, regardless of what else is in the tank.

Buy a fish that may attack the clown and they will be forced to hide.

A foolish suggestion. You'll merely terrorize the clown. I've heard of
zero evidence that a stressed clown hosts in an anemone more readily than
one at peace. You've given bad advice bordering on criminal: the only
result
of following your advice will be a lot more panicked clownfish.

No, there is no genetically embedded code that makes them live inside the
condy, it will only use it if it needs it.

So many mistakes you've made. Yes, there is a genetic code to have clowns
host inside anemones (or, more generally, fleshing stinging corals). You
can
prove this easily by raising a clown from an egg in isolation from any
other
clownfish. They will easily host, and obviously could not have learned
that
from another clown.

Secondly, you missed that the original poster said they had a percula
clown,
and that for a clown/anemone pairing, the species matters. Perculas and
condys happen not to be natural (or common in captivity) pairs.

And finally, again, your whole "they'll only use it if they need it"
thesis
is totally wrong.

Bad advice, all around.

-- Don
__________________________________________________ _____________________________
Don Geddis
http://reef.geddis.org/
I'm not sure I believe everything in the Bible. But I think I would
believe if
I opened it and found, say, a fifty-dollar bill, if you get my drift.
-- Deep Thoughts, by Jack Handey [1999]

Can you give us the genetic code that triggers that behavior and the lab
that spent years coding the Clown's genome?

I think you are misinterpreting what he means (and I from the original
question) what is meant by "genetic".

There are two types of behavior INNATE and LEARNED. An innate behavior is
instictive and is inherited from parents (via genetic code).
To state that a behavior is innate (geneticly passed down) do we need to
decode that specific genome before we can state that a specific behvior is
innate?


I didn't know that! but if you say so then you have proof of it.

Do you believe that fish are tought to swim? If you don't that you must
beleive swimming is an innate behavior to a fish. Do YOU NEED proof in the
form of specific genetic code that a fish has the innate ability to swim
(passed down from its parents)? If not, why do you need it for a
clownfish's behavior with an anenome?

I guess iy has a point, you are guessing. Can I laugh about the "genetical
code to have clowns host inside anemones", that was a good one.

Are we guessing that a fish's ability to swim is innate and passed down from
its parents via genetic code? Do fish LEARN to swim from there parents?
How do you know for sure?

Reread Don's post: "It's been demonstrated time and time again in
captivity that clowns have an instinct to live inside (specific species of)
anemones, regardless of what else is in the tank."

He specificaly stated that the behavor is instinctive (innate/genetic). Why
would you need the specific genetic code that is involved?

Can you give us the genetic code that triggers that behavior and the lab
that spent years coding the Clown's genome?

I think you are misinterpreting what he means (and I from the original
question) what is meant by "genetic".

There are two types of behavior INNATE and LEARNED. An innate behavior is
instinctive and is inherited from parents (via genetic code).
To state that a behavior is innate (genetically passed down) do we need to
decode that specific genome before we can state that a specific behavior is
innate?


I didn't know that! but if you say so then you have proof of it.

Do you believe that fish are taught to swim? If you don't that you must
believe swimming is an innate behavior to a fish. Do YOU NEED proof in the
form of specific genetic code that a fish has the innate ability to swim
(passed down from its parents)? If not, why do you need it for a
clownfish's behavior with an anemone?

I guess iy has a point, you are guessing. Can I laugh about the "genetical
code to have clowns host inside anemones", that was a good one.

Are we guessing that a fish's ability to swim is innate and passed down from
its parents via genetic code? Do fish LEARN to swim from their parents?
How do you know for sure?

Reread Don's post: "It's been demonstrated time and time again in
captivity that clowns have an instinct to live inside (specific species of)
anemones, regardless of what else is in the tank."

He specifically stated that the behavior is instinctive (innate/genetic).
Why
would you need the specific genetic code that is involved?

lol when are you going to stop creating new aliases for
yourself?

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



Guayni; SAHS wrote on 9/5/2006 10:00 PM:
Can you give us the genetic code that triggers that behavior and the lab
that spent years coding the Clown's genome?
I didn't know that! but if you say so then you have proof of it. I guess iy
has a point, you are guessing. Can I laugh about the "genetical code to
have clowns host inside anemones", that was a good one.
G
"Don Geddis" wrote in message
...
"Inabón Yunes" wrote on Sun, 3 Sep 2006 :
In your tank, your fish may not need the anemone because there is nothing
to hide from. Other than the protection they get, there is no other
reason
to hide.
It's true that clowns live inside of anemones for protection from
predators.
In a tank without predators, there is no "reason" to hide there.

If they don't need protection, they are not going inside.
You're completely wrong. It's been demonstrated time and time again in
captivity that clowns have an instinct to live inside (specific species
of)
anemones, regardless of what else is in the tank.

Buy a fish that may attack the clown and they will be forced to hide.
A foolish suggestion. You'll merely terrorize the clown. I've heard of
zero evidence that a stressed clown hosts in an anemone more readily than
one at peace. You've given bad advice bordering on criminal: the only
result
of following your advice will be a lot more panicked clownfish.

No, there is no genetically embedded code that makes them live inside the
condy, it will only use it if it needs it.
So many mistakes you've made. Yes, there is a genetic code to have clowns
host inside anemones (or, more generally, fleshing stinging corals). You
can
prove this easily by raising a clown from an egg in isolation from any
other
clownfish. They will easily host, and obviously could not have learned
that
from another clown.

Secondly, you missed that the original poster said they had a percula
clown,
and that for a clown/anemone pairing, the species matters. Perculas and
condys happen not to be natural (or common in captivity) pairs.

And finally, again, your whole "they'll only use it if they need it"
thesis
is totally wrong.

Bad advice, all around.

-- Don
__________________________________________________ _____________________________
Don Geddis
http://reef.geddis.org/
I'm not sure I believe everything in the Bible. But I think I would
believe if
I opened it and found, say, a fifty-dollar bill, if you get my drift.
-- Deep Thoughts, by Jack Handey [1999]

Stoutman wrote:
Is the clown/anemone relationship a learned one or is it genetic? In other
words will a clown take to an anemone if he has never seen/witnessed another
clown fish in an anemone?

I am asking because I have a tank raised percula clown who is not taking to
my sebae or condy anemone.

thanks.


The clown/anemone relationship is genetic. Tank raised clowns will take
anemones. AS for yours first the percula clown does not normally host
in a condy or sebae.

Here is fair article on clownfish/anemone compatiblity.

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume...wn_anemone.htm


Kim Gross
www.jensalt.com

Yep.

I did once have some osilaris clowns nest in condys, but
that's very unusual. condy anemones have real potent
stings. If your clown is a percula or osilaris, I
recommend a frilly mushroom. Mushrooms don't move around
like anemones do, and they can take the abuse of the clown
fish better.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



kim gross wrote on 9/3/2006 11:27 PM:
Stoutman wrote:
Is the clown/anemone relationship a learned one or is it genetic? In
other words will a clown take to an anemone if he has never
seen/witnessed another clown fish in an anemone?

I am asking because I have a tank raised percula clown who is not
taking to my sebae or condy anemone.

thanks.

The clown/anemone relationship is genetic. Tank raised clowns will take
anemones. AS for yours first the percula clown does not normally host
in a condy or sebae.

Here is fair article on clownfish/anemone compatiblity.

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume...wn_anemone.htm



Kim Gross
www.jensalt.com