Sick clown?

Hello,

I came home from work on my lunch break yesterday and thought that I was
missing a clown fish. After putting a bit of dry seaweed in, he came out
from hiding in a far corner under some pieces of live rock. For my
clowns, this is VERY unusual behavior. They usually don't even go down
to the rock level let alone hide stationary under it. When he tried
getting some food, the other two attacked him and he went back into hiding.

These are all Occelaris clowns, tank bred. Normally very gentle and have
been together in an extremely close-knit group for months without
incident. I'm at work right now, otherwise I could look at my logs and
tell you the exact date they were added.

Anyway, I moved him to my pseudo-quarantine tank that basically just
houses my small pyjama cardinal and two small cleaner snails to keep it
going. After a lot of observation of him while not being attacked, I can
find no spots or anything that might indicate disease, he swims
normally, and just seems perfectly normal. He does have a nipped side
fin since being attacked that wasn't there previously. On an amusing
note, because of that he looks even more like Nemo. Same side even.

So far I'm keeping him isolated and keeping a watch on any new
developments and will probably keep him in there until his fin regrows
at the very least. Any ideas as to what would have caused the other two
to suddenly attack?

Thanks,

Brandonb

"Brandonb" wrote in message ...
Any ideas as to what would have caused the other two
to suddenly attack?

Breeding sezon ?
But it is unusual for ocealaris kind to fight like that.
It is more known for maroon clowns to eliminate other fish.

Only one question...
How old is he?
Even if they are the same age, usualy one ages sooner. Maybe has a natural
illness or it may have a parasite in his gills.
There are many natural reasons for that behavior. Keep an eye on him but is
he dies, check his gills, and other organs, this will tell you is the fish
just got old!
iy
"Brandonb" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I came home from work on my lunch break yesterday and thought that I was
missing a clown fish. After putting a bit of dry seaweed in, he came out
from hiding in a far corner under some pieces of live rock. For my clowns,
this is VERY unusual behavior. They usually don't even go down to the rock
level let alone hide stationary under it. When he tried getting some food,
the other two attacked him and he went back into hiding.

These are all Occelaris clowns, tank bred. Normally very gentle and have
been together in an extremely close-knit group for months without
incident. I'm at work right now, otherwise I could look at my logs and
tell you the exact date they were added.

Anyway, I moved him to my pseudo-quarantine tank that basically just
houses my small pyjama cardinal and two small cleaner snails to keep it
going. After a lot of observation of him while not being attacked, I can
find no spots or anything that might indicate disease, he swims normally,
and just seems perfectly normal. He does have a nipped side fin since
being attacked that wasn't there previously. On an amusing note, because
of that he looks even more like Nemo. Same side even.

So far I'm keeping him isolated and keeping a watch on any new
developments and will probably keep him in there until his fin regrows at
the very least. Any ideas as to what would have caused the other two to
suddenly attack?

Thanks,

Brandonb

Pszemol wrote:

Breeding sezon ?

Possibly I guess. I haven't noticed any other unusual activity with them
though. Is there any way to tell for sure?

But it is unusual for ocealaris kind to fight like that.
It is more known for maroon clowns to eliminate other fish.

Definitely not maroon clowns.

Thanks,
Brandonb

"Brandonb" wrote in message
...
Pszemol wrote:

Breeding sezon ?

Possibly I guess. I haven't noticed any other unusual activity with them
though. Is there any way to tell for sure?

But it is unusual for ocealaris kind to fight like that.
It is more known for maroon clowns to eliminate other fish.

Definitely not maroon clowns.

Thanks,
Brandonb

If you've only had these fish a few months, it is possible that a pair bond
has just been established between the other two, and this one is simply no
longer wecome. Watch the behavior of the other two and report back on how
they are behaving towards one another and whether they are making any
changes in the immediate environment where they like to hang out (i.e., any
nesting behavior should be noted, such as digging in the bottom sand
beneath a rock). They are substrate spawners, so they will try to keep
their nesting area clean of debris and unwanted critters, and will defend
it.

George

George wrote:

If you've only had these fish a few months, it is possible that a pair bond
has just been established between the other two, and this one is simply no
longer wecome. Watch the behavior of the other two and report back on how
they are behaving towards one another and whether they are making any
changes in the immediate environment where they like to hang out (i.e., any
nesting behavior should be noted, such as digging in the bottom sand
beneath a rock). They are substrate spawners, so they will try to keep
their nesting area clean of debris and unwanted critters, and will defend
it.

George

I will definitely do that, thanks.

BrandonB

Inabón Yunes wrote:
Only one question...
How old is he?
Even if they are the same age, usualy one ages sooner. Maybe has a natural
illness or it may have a parasite in his gills.
There are many natural reasons for that behavior. Keep an eye on him but is
he dies, check his gills, and other organs, this will tell you is the fish
just got old!
iy

Honestly, I don't know his age. To save length in my already lengthy
first post there were some historical details left out. I'll put them he

I started researching setting up a tank and reading and asking a lot of
questions of friends around April of 2005. My 55g tank first started
cycling on Feb 11, 2006. Water is from a 5-stage RO/DI unit from
Airwaterice.com. The Typhoon III with the 75gpd filters. Oceanic brand
salt mix. There's ~40lbs live arag-alive crushed coral (the wet stuff),
started with 20lbs "cured" Fiji live rock I got from a guy that had it
in an established tank for about 5 years, and was cured by myself for
about 6 months before going in the tank, and after about a month, on
March 8, 06 added 50 pounds "uncured" Fiji and Tonga rock from
LiveAquaria.com (I cleaned off the gunk and debris and rinsed it in some
waterchange water I had before putting it in). I had a heater, a Penguin
700 Powerhead, and an Emperor 400 filter with no biowheels, but some
filter cartridges for about a week making sure any residual floating
debris was gone, then basically just moving water for oxygenation and an
air stone. After about a month of that, and testing the water daily
since cycling began, everything had been zeroed out for a couple weeks
at 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 0 nitrates, about 180-300 alkalinity. At
least, according to these test kits:
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Produc...&N=2004+113074

So after about 2 months since adding water, I got my first fish. 2
tank-bred ocellaris clowns according to the LFS. They were the slightly
brighter shade of orange that's usually associated with ocellaris
instead of the true percula clowns. About a month after that, an
aquaintance was moving and selling off all his livestock and equipment.
This included 2 black perculas and an orange ocellaris that he had had
for an unknown amount of time but were pretty much the exact same size
as mine. After about a week or two in quarantine they got added in with
my other two clowns. They were one big happy group of 5 clowns (two
black percs and 3 ocellaris, for about 2 weeks until the slightly bigger
of the two blacks and the slightly bigger of my two started diving at
each other, but never nipping. After some research I figured they
probably had started making a "female" in each group before they were
put together. It was always the larger two of each doing it. I figured
dominance. So the two blacks got put in my quarantine tank, and the
three orange stayed in my 55.

So basically since the end of April/beginning of May until now, the
three orange clowns had been one happy family. Always swimming together
in a group, sleeping in a group in the upper left back corner of the
tank on top of a power head, eating together, etc. They pretty much
never even went down to the level of the rocks or below unless a piece
of pellet food made it down that far before one of em grabbed it. So it
was just odd that two days ago the sudden change and the one (I'm pretty
sure its the one that was with the two black percs originally) was
hiding in the bottom right back corner wedged in some rocks. I tried
putting him with the black percs again but they just attacked him
immediately as well and was back to hiding. He's now in a tank by
himself and so far seems back to normal and happy and isn't doing
anything odd.

Poster "George" mentioned that they may be spawning. So far they have
stayed toward the top of the tank as usual and don't seem to be doing
anything weird in the substrate.

Brandonb

I would just stick with the two in the tank, and accept
it. They will eventually kill other clown if you try to
keep it in there. They have pared off, and don't want the
other fish.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



Brandonb wrote on 9/5/2006 6:52 PM:
Inabón Yunes wrote:
Only one question...
How old is he?
Even if they are the same age, usualy one ages sooner. Maybe has a
natural illness or it may have a parasite in his gills.
There are many natural reasons for that behavior. Keep an eye on him
but is he dies, check his gills, and other organs, this will tell you
is the fish just got old!
iy

Honestly, I don't know his age. To save length in my already lengthy
first post there were some historical details left out. I'll put them he

I started researching setting up a tank and reading and asking a lot of
questions of friends around April of 2005. My 55g tank first started
cycling on Feb 11, 2006. Water is from a 5-stage RO/DI unit from
Airwaterice.com. The Typhoon III with the 75gpd filters. Oceanic brand
salt mix. There's ~40lbs live arag-alive crushed coral (the wet stuff),
started with 20lbs "cured" Fiji live rock I got from a guy that had it
in an established tank for about 5 years, and was cured by myself for
about 6 months before going in the tank, and after about a month, on
March 8, 06 added 50 pounds "uncured" Fiji and Tonga rock from
LiveAquaria.com (I cleaned off the gunk and debris and rinsed it in some
waterchange water I had before putting it in). I had a heater, a Penguin
700 Powerhead, and an Emperor 400 filter with no biowheels, but some
filter cartridges for about a week making sure any residual floating
debris was gone, then basically just moving water for oxygenation and an
air stone. After about a month of that, and testing the water daily
since cycling began, everything had been zeroed out for a couple weeks
at 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 0 nitrates, about 180-300 alkalinity. At
least, according to these test kits:
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Produc...&N=2004+113074


So after about 2 months since adding water, I got my first fish. 2
tank-bred ocellaris clowns according to the LFS. They were the slightly
brighter shade of orange that's usually associated with ocellaris
instead of the true percula clowns. About a month after that, an
aquaintance was moving and selling off all his livestock and equipment.
This included 2 black perculas and an orange ocellaris that he had had
for an unknown amount of time but were pretty much the exact same size
as mine. After about a week or two in quarantine they got added in with
my other two clowns. They were one big happy group of 5 clowns (two
black percs and 3 ocellaris, for about 2 weeks until the slightly bigger
of the two blacks and the slightly bigger of my two started diving at
each other, but never nipping. After some research I figured they
probably had started making a "female" in each group before they were
put together. It was always the larger two of each doing it. I figured
dominance. So the two blacks got put in my quarantine tank, and the
three orange stayed in my 55.

So basically since the end of April/beginning of May until now, the
three orange clowns had been one happy family. Always swimming together
in a group, sleeping in a group in the upper left back corner of the
tank on top of a power head, eating together, etc. They pretty much
never even went down to the level of the rocks or below unless a piece
of pellet food made it down that far before one of em grabbed it. So it
was just odd that two days ago the sudden change and the one (I'm pretty
sure its the one that was with the two black percs originally) was
hiding in the bottom right back corner wedged in some rocks. I tried
putting him with the black percs again but they just attacked him
immediately as well and was back to hiding. He's now in a tank by
himself and so far seems back to normal and happy and isn't doing
anything odd.

Poster "George" mentioned that they may be spawning. So far they have
stayed toward the top of the tank as usual and don't seem to be doing
anything weird in the substrate.

Brandonb

"Brandonb" wrote in message
...
Inabón Yunes wrote:
Only one question...
How old is he?
Even if they are the same age, usualy one ages sooner. Maybe has a
natural illness or it may have a parasite in his gills.
There are many natural reasons for that behavior. Keep an eye on him
but is he dies, check his gills, and other organs, this will tell you is
the fish just got old!
iy

Honestly, I don't know his age. To save length in my already lengthy
first post there were some historical details left out. I'll put them
he

I started researching setting up a tank and reading and asking a lot of
questions of friends around April of 2005. My 55g tank first started
cycling on Feb 11, 2006. Water is from a 5-stage RO/DI unit from
Airwaterice.com. The Typhoon III with the 75gpd filters. Oceanic brand
salt mix. There's ~40lbs live arag-alive crushed coral (the wet stuff),
started with 20lbs "cured" Fiji live rock I got from a guy that had it in
an established tank for about 5 years, and was cured by myself for about
6 months before going in the tank, and after about a month, on March 8,
06 added 50 pounds "uncured" Fiji and Tonga rock from LiveAquaria.com (I
cleaned off the gunk and debris and rinsed it in some waterchange water I
had before putting it in). I had a heater, a Penguin 700 Powerhead, and
an Emperor 400 filter with no biowheels, but some filter cartridges for
about a week making sure any residual floating debris was gone, then
basically just moving water for oxygenation and an air stone. After about
a month of that, and testing the water daily since cycling began,
everything had been zeroed out for a couple weeks at 0 ammonia, 0
nitrites, 0 nitrates, about 180-300 alkalinity. At least, according to
these test kits:
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Produc...&N=2004+113074

So after about 2 months since adding water, I got my first fish. 2
tank-bred ocellaris clowns according to the LFS. They were the slightly
brighter shade of orange that's usually associated with ocellaris instead
of the true percula clowns. About a month after that, an aquaintance was
moving and selling off all his livestock and equipment. This included 2
black perculas and an orange ocellaris that he had had for an unknown
amount of time but were pretty much the exact same size as mine. After
about a week or two in quarantine they got added in with my other two
clowns. They were one big happy group of 5 clowns (two black percs and 3
ocellaris, for about 2 weeks until the slightly bigger of the two blacks
and the slightly bigger of my two started diving at each other, but never
nipping. After some research I figured they probably had started making a
"female" in each group before they were put together. It was always the
larger two of each doing it. I figured dominance. So the two blacks got
put in my quarantine tank, and the three orange stayed in my 55.

So basically since the end of April/beginning of May until now, the three
orange clowns had been one happy family. Always swimming together in a
group, sleeping in a group in the upper left back corner of the tank on
top of a power head, eating together, etc. They pretty much never even
went down to the level of the rocks or below unless a piece of pellet
food made it down that far before one of em grabbed it. So it was just
odd that two days ago the sudden change and the one (I'm pretty sure its
the one that was with the two black percs originally) was hiding in the
bottom right back corner wedged in some rocks. I tried putting him with
the black percs again but they just attacked him immediately as well and
was back to hiding. He's now in a tank by himself and so far seems back
to normal and happy and isn't doing anything odd.

Poster "George" mentioned that they may be spawning. So far they have
stayed toward the top of the tank as usual and don't seem to be doing
anything weird in the substrate.

Brandonb

Not necessarily spawning just yet, but likely pair-bonding. These fish, in
my experience, mate for life, so once they've bonded, they establish a
territory and defend it. I say mate for life, but my first pair of maroon
clowns (male and female, I got at the dame time). They paired right away.
But about 5 years on, the male got sick and died. After about six months,
a bought another, and the two bonded, and have mated numerous times since.
The female is now about 15 years old. The male is 10 years old.

George

"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message ink.net...
I would just stick with the two in the tank, and accept
it. They will eventually kill other clown if you try to
keep it in there. They have pared off, and don't want the
other fish.

I agree - I would stick with the two as well.

Two black or this one odd one - I would
try to sell them to the LFS or in local fish club.
Of course - since the black ones fight the other
guy (or gal) I would sell them separatelly
informing future owner they do not get by well.

Try posting an ad on the reefcentral.com
on a proper forum, depending where you live.