RFD: rec.ponds.moderated moderated

REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
moderated group rec.ponds.moderated

This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the creation of the
moderated Usenet newsgroup, rec.ponds.moderated.


NEWSGROUPS LINE: rec.ponds.moderated

rec.ponds.moderated The enjoyment and management of recreational ponds and water gardens (Moderated)


RATIONALE: rec.ponds.moderated

Rec.ponds was founded in 1994 for backyard pond enthusiasts to share
experiences and information. For most of its existence rec.ponds was
an active and thriving Internet community of long-term ponders as well
as newcomers to the hobby.

Around two years ago rec.ponds became inundated with trolls, flames,
forgeries and destructive crossposts. Most of the rec.pond regulars
fled to mailing lists or forums where they could discuss their hobby
in relative peace. A few remained to answer questions from newcomers
and to attempt to rebuild the community that previously existed.

However, the signal became mired intractably in noise. Other outlets
were not a useful alternative for many former rec.ponders. Many of the
boards, lists and forums that permit pond discussion seem to be geared
to Koi owners and the high end hobbyist. Many rec.ponders, by contrast,
are content with a few fish such as common goldfish and minnows, some
plants, and relatively small ponds that might or might not be
mechanically filtered, and who do not want to spend $10,000 on a pond.

Pond newcomers who continue to find rec.ponds are often driven away by
unwarranted personal attacks despite the efforts of the few remaining
rec.ponds regulars to make them feel welcome. Equally as harmful have
been several instances of flooding where literally thousands of off-topic
posts were dumped into rec.ponds, driving away all but the most determined
rec.ponders.

Continuing interest in discussing ponds online is evident by the number of
pond-related posts to such forums as The Freshwater Aquarium, Koiphen,
Koishack, The Mud Pond, Garden Web, Aquascape, Professional Pond Builder's
Society, rec.aquaria.freshwater.miscellaneous, rec.ponds itself, and the
rec.aquaria newsgroups, where pond newcomers will sometimes post their
questions. Some overlap between rec.ponds and the rec.aquaria groups has
always existed and should not be seen as detrimental to this proposal.

If rec.ponds.moderated is approved, rec.ponds would continue to be
monitored by regular rec.ponders and any newcomers who want to post in
a troll-, flood-, flame-, and forge-free newsgroup would be directed to
rec.ponds.moderated.


TRAFFIC ANALYSIS:

Our team is in the process of analyzing pond related traffic on the
internet. We will include details as they are prepared.


CHARTER:

Rec.ponds.moderated is a moderated newsgroup to provide a friendly,
respectful forum for the discussion of all aspects of ponds or water
gardens.

The rec.ponds.moderated newsgroup will appeal to a wide range of
people involved in both the recreational and professional aspects of
establishing and maintaining a pond or water garden. We will have
novices to water gardening as well as experts, the hobbyist as well as
genuine botanists and ichthyologists. Even students wishing to find
help with science projects may decide to read rec.ponds.moderated.
All of these people will be welcomed to share ideas, ask questions, or
simply lurk and learn.

Examples of discussion topics might include:

* Building a pond/water garden:
Details will be shared regarding the best materials to use, procedures
for making the pond secure, and appropriate placement of the pond.
Or, in the case of a naturally occurring pond, what can be done to
make it more "user friendly"? We will have tips on building a
waterfall, installing a fountain, whether to use a filter, and how to
install a biological filter. Also, we may give information on
lighting and how to safely run electrical lines to the pond area.

* Establishing an ecosystem:
Where else can you create your own ecosystem and watch it evolve?
We will have discussions on water quality; the ratio of plant life to
animal life; plant/animal interactions, etc.

* Plant life:
We will discuss which plants are best suited for our water gardens.
Which plants need a lot of sunlight, which will survive in the pond
over winter, which need to be taken indoors, etc. The
rec.ponds.moderated newsgroup will serve as a forum for discussing
plant diseases and cures, when to divide, and how to propagate our
plants. We will also share information on establishing an area for
bog plants.

* Fish:
We will share information on fish behavior, biology, and health. For
example: Which fish are compatible? What is the maximum number of
fish for the size of a pond? What conditions should exist in the
pond so the fish will breed? How do we protect the fry from danger
and see that they grow into healthy adults? Which diseases are
likely to affect pond fish? How much should we feed the fish, and
how often?

* Amphibians and reptiles:
We will discuss the biology, health, and behavior of frogs, newts,
snakes, salamanders, turtles, etc. that either come naturally to the
pond or are placed there by us. Which ones get along?

* Other environmental concerns:
In rec.ponds.moderated, we will discuss how to make certain the pond
is not a safety hazard for small children or pets. How can we
attract butterflies? Should we attract snails? Also, how do we
guard against unwanted visitors (raccoons, cats, snakes, herons) that
may prey on the fish and/or plants in a pond? What about the use of
fertilizers or insecticides near the pond? Rec.ponds.moderated can
be a place to exchange information on (non-political) conservation
issues.

* Miscellaneous:
Students can use rec.ponds.moderated as a place for learning more
about plant and animal life in and around water. We may exchange
information regarding suppliers of equipment, literature regarding
water garden techniques, location of other electronic resources, etc.
(However, rec.ponds.moderated is *not* intended as a forum for
commercial transactions with respect to sale of plants, fish, or pond
equipment.)


MODERATION POLICY: rec.ponds.moderated

1. Content - on-topic discussions about ponding or reasonable off
topic posts will be allowed; but flames, troll attempts, and personal
attacks will not be allowed. Nor will:

- Personal advertisements
- Commercial advertisements and money-making schemes
- Chain letters
- Posts in HTML
- EMP spam
- Binaries apart from PGP signatures, X-Face headers, and other
ancillary article meta-data
- Forgery of valid email addresses
- Unauthorized approval headers
- Excessive morphing/nym shifting
- Personally identifying information (e.g. residential addresses,
phone numbers, government identifications) associated with anyone
other than the poster.
- Posts advocating violence or containing physical threats
- Content advocating acts that would be intrinsically illegal in most
places
- Insulting or making personal attacks on other posters
- Gender-based, race-based, religion-based or sexual orientation-based
bashing of groups and/or individuals
- Copyright violations. Pointers to new articles, blogs, etc. on this
topic are welcome. They must comply with fair use standards.

2. Author - anyone will be allowed to post on-topic or reasonable off
topic posts as long as they are not forging another poster's name.
Anonymous posting will be allowed.

3. Crossposting - Minimal crossposting to related groups based on
content (e.g., fish hobby, gardening, wildlife management) will be
allowed. No crossposting to irrelevant groups will be permitted.

4. Accept/forward and Return/reject Policies - Two moderators are
required to agree before a submission will be forwarded/accepted for
posting. Two moderators are required to agree before a submission can
be returned/rejected.

5. Suspending members from posting: Persons who repeatedly violate
posting rules may be suspended from posting for a period of time by a
2/3 vote of the moderation team

6. Moderation team - Moderation of posts will be conducted by a
Moderation Team. The first moderation team members will be divided
into two classes appointed for one or two year terms to end on Jan 31
of the first and second years after the initiation of the group.
Thereafter, a new class of moderators will be elected annually during
the month of August, to serve two year terms to begin on September 1
of the election year and to continue through August 31of the second
year after the election year. The moderation team will select each
new class of moderators and election will be by a minimum of 2/3.
Members of rec.ponds.moderated may propose potential moderators to the
team.

The moderation team will elect a 'head moderator' by majority vote.
Moderators may be re-elected. The moderation team may elect persons
to fill vacancies using the 2/3 criterion for election.

If any moderator does not abide by moderation guidelines, the other
moderators may remove that moderator by a 2/3 vote.
Resigning moderators may do so by emailing the head moderator.
The moderation team will have an email location for members to contact
if they wish to communicate with the team.


MODERATOR INFO: rec.ponds.moderated

Moderator: Derek
Moderator: Gail
Moderator: Galen
Moderator: ~jan
Moderator: Kathy30a
Moderator: Phyllis
Moderator: Jim
Head Moderator: Steve Bonine

Article Submissions:
Administrative Contact:

Our group is exploring various robo-moderation software programs. These
programs are designed to assist human moderator teams. We are currently
exploring the use of STUMP. Details will be provided as they become
available.

END MODERATOR INFO



PROCEDU

For more information on the newsgroup creation process, please see:

http://www.big-8.org/dokuwiki/doku.p...icies:creation

Those who wish to influence the development of this RFD and its final
resolution should subscribe to news.groups.proposals and participate in the
relevant threads in that newsgroup. This is both a courtesy to groups in
which discussion of creating a new group is off-topic as well as the best
method of making sure that one's comments or criticisms are heard.

All discussion of active proposals should be posted to news.groups.proposals.
To this end, the 'Followup-To' header of this RFD has been set to this group.

If desired by the readership of closely affected groups, the discussion
may be crossposted to those groups, but care must be taken to ensure
that all discussion appears in news.groups.proposals as well.

We urge those who would like to read or post in the proposed newsgroup
to make a comment to that effect in this thread; we ask proponents to
keep a list of such positive posts with the relevant message ID
(e.g., Barney Fife, ).
Such lists of positive feedback for the proposal may constitute good
evidence that the group will be well-used if it is created.




DISTRIBUTION:

This document has been posted to the following newsgroups:

news.announce.newgroups
news.groups.proposals
rec.ponds
rec.aquaria.misc
rec.aquaria.freshwater

The proponent will also post pointers to:

rec.aquaria.freshwater.goldfish


PROPONENT:

Ron Schompert

Co-Proponent: Galen Hekhuis


CHANGE HISTORY:

2006-12-14 1st RFD

You're main and biggest problem is that nobody looks to see how many
groups this is crossposted to. If the last poster might earnestly limit
his Pythonesque argument briefly and clarify as to why I read this
crossposted in alt.usenet.kooks after following another particicularly
crude assault that ends up in many groups (including ba.broadcast),
perhaps the pathology of this misery will show one tiny strand of the
problem.

Does "news.groups" cast any light in your tunnel? Go back and look
please.

~~~~~~~~~~~SNIP

Hey, this is a request for discussion. We're open to suggestions.

And these are?


Comments?
Observations?

I disagree with your conclusion and believe it to be because it is based in
part on flawed premises.



Such as the inability to contact the ISP of just two trolls


I don't think ISPs give a damn about that anymore. You pay for
"content" is the line I'd always get from them. Perhaps a forum works
better, but they can turn on whomever has the weakest link, fair or
unfair. Law of the clique jungle.

I'm sorry about your groups, but if you look around it's a common
argument in 2006.

Vorian_ Atreides wrote:
Galen Hekhuis wrote:
On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 20:03:31 -0500, Vorian_ Atreides
wrote:

If it is not important, why do you need a moderated group?

It isn't important to find the root of the problem to recognize that there
is a problem.


So take, take the aspirin. If it a migraine, it will go away, but if it
is a brain tumor, prepare to die.

Then why mention private forums, if they are not relevant?

We can change it, is that what you're suggesting? This is a request for
discussion, after all.

Please do.


Explain.

Their scope is different than ours. The uk group never faces, for example,
alligators in their ponds.


Neither do people in most places of the world, are you suggesting
rec.ponds is regional group? If that is the case, then a group should
be created in the US. Hierarchy.

Not a valid point.

Others would disagree.

And these are?

Your suggestions, I hope.

It won't be posted. Jayne will make sure it won't


Such as the inability to contact the ISP of just two trolls

I disagree (among other things) that this is the work of just two trolls.


Evidence?

Although I frequent a few Google groups including rec.ponds; The Usenet
forum in my opinion is a has been format that allows out of control
flaming that does not happen in the better moderated forums elsewhere
that I frequent or in some case have been invited to moderate. I do not
think until a true change of attitude happens with these groups that
problems will cease to exist. That includes the flaming of others that
is extremely prevalent in the Usenet when someone bursts the bubbles of
users and so called moderators with newer, well researched information
backed by studies. This all goes on while Flamers and hypocrites in
these groups promote sites that may or may not serve the readers and
moderators allow discussions about approved devices.
This has happened in even so called moderated groups such as Freshwater
Aquarium.

Carl