Red Devils

I have two red devils that are about 5" in size. One of them is incredibly
aggressive and is literally terrorizing the other red devil, "he" just wont
let the other one be. The more dominant one practically chases the other
red devil into corners, where he just attacks him mercilessly. I read
somewhere on the net that this is typical behavior of two male red devils
and that they will continue doing so until one they kill one.

Is there anything that I can do at this point to stop the aggressive one?
Should I introduce another Red Devil but a female or will it get worse?
If I take the aggressive one out will the other one become aggressive toward
the other cichlids in the tank?

Mariana

Not an expert, but I've heard that RDs and several others, need a certain
amount of space to feel secure, or safe... It could be that they are
growing, and are now to the point that 2 in the tank is too much, but you
didn't say what size tank they're in, so I can't be sure at all....

In other cases, they could see the 'other' RD as a competitor, and have
lived peacefully until that time.... once you cross that line, you may not
be able to go back.... YMMV

Last couple of thoughts would be, what else is in the tank, maybe you need
some dither fish, something to take the attention away from the aggressor,
maybe a school of smaller fish, but that is limited on tank space... Then
there is that theory of "Controlled Agression" using the 'over populated'
approach. Theory has it, if you put a bunch of aggressive cichlids in an
aquarium and enough that it's borderline overstocked, they lose interest in
chasing one, because there are so many others, they literally lose track, or
forget... they say fish have a 2-3 second memory, so again, YMMV....

I've never had RDs but Jack Dempseys were very similar in that, you could
start out with two, eventually, one will have to go, or you'll have to get a
bigger tank....

I HAVE used isolation as a deterrant, but the bad boy quickly resumed his
bad deeds.... fish are fish, and not reformable.... I guess... shrugging

"GrlIntrpted" wrote in message
et...
I have two red devils that are about 5" in size. One of them is
incredibly
aggressive and is literally terrorizing the other red devil, "he" just
wont
let the other one be. The more dominant one practically chases the other
red devil into corners, where he just attacks him mercilessly. I read
somewhere on the net that this is typical behavior of two male red devils
and that they will continue doing so until one they kill one.

Is there anything that I can do at this point to stop the aggressive one?
Should I introduce another Red Devil but a female or will it get worse?
If I take the aggressive one out will the other one become aggressive
toward
the other cichlids in the tank?

Mariana

"GrlIntrpted" wrote in message
et...
I have two red devils that are about 5" in size. One of them is
incredibly
aggressive and is literally terrorizing the other red devil, "he" just
wont
let the other one be. The more dominant one practically chases the other
red devil into corners, where he just attacks him mercilessly. I read
somewhere on the net that this is typical behavior of two male red devils
and that they will continue doing so until one they kill one.

Is there anything that I can do at this point to stop the aggressive one?
Should I introduce another Red Devil but a female or will it get worse?
If I take the aggressive one out will the other one become aggressive
toward
the other cichlids in the tank?

Mariana


How big is their tank? Most large Central American cichlids are not going
to tolerate others of their own, or very similar, kind except in a HUGE
aquarium.
It isn't just a male/male problem with big cichlids (males and females often
injure the opposite sex also) they are just very
territorial fish. If they are both males, introducing a female may lead to
even more territorial behavioras the pair bond, meaning the rival male will
certainly be killed and the other tankmates will likely be also. Unless you
have a big, maybe 6' long or more, with plenty of hiding spots, I would
separate the two. They're not called red devils for nuthin' ;-)

"Sarotherodon" wrote in message
.. .

How big is their tank?

Not sure, it's a corner unit (deep and triangular). It was custome built.
The dimensions are W 21"x H 24" x 2 sides of 20" each. I used to have
regular fresh water fish like: neons, guppies, gold fish etc....but then
decided to make it a tad more interesting . Lots of places to hide,
caves, rocks, even plants in broken clay pots.


Mariana

"RedForeman ©®" wrote in message
...
Not an expert, but I've heard that RDs and several others, need a certain
amount of space to feel secure, or safe... It could be that they are
growing, and are now to the point that 2 in the tank is too much, but you
didn't say what size tank they're in, so I can't be sure at all....


Please see previous response regarding size.


Last couple of thoughts would be, what else is in the tank, maybe you need
some dither fish, something to take the attention away from the aggressor,
maybe a school of smaller fish, but that is limited on tank space...

Jack Dempsy's, Convicts, Jaguars, Firemouths, Pacu, several algae eaters,
Jewels, Green Terrors .

Then
there is that theory of "Controlled Agression" using the 'over populated'
approach. Theory has it, if you put a bunch of aggressive cichlids in an
aquarium and enough that it's borderline overstocked, they lose interest
in
chasing one, because there are so many others, they literally lose track,
or
forget... they say fish have a 2-3 second memory, so again, YMMV....

I think that my tank is pretty over populated, and the aggressor has a
fantastic memory! He just doesn't forget .


I've never had RDs but Jack Dempseys were very similar in that, you could
start out with two, eventually, one will have to go, or you'll have to get
a
bigger tank....

I have two Jack Dempseys. One is about 6" in size, the other one is about
4". So far, they are doing very well together, and both are acting rather
peacefully.
But as you said, fish are fish and can not be changed, I suspect that the
day of the Dempseys is coming soon

Mariana

"GrlIntrpted" wrote in message
et...

"Sarotherodon" wrote in message
.. .

How big is their tank?

Not sure, it's a corner unit (deep and triangular). It was custome built.
The dimensions are W 21"x H 24" x 2 sides of 20" each. I used to have
regular fresh water fish like: neons, guppies, gold fish etc....but then
decided to make it a tad more interesting . Lots of places to hide,
caves, rocks, even plants in broken clay pots.


Mariana


Dimensions are usually a lot more important than capacity in determining
what a reasonable fish population is. That tank is definitely not big
enough for more than one red devil. A full grown RD is going to very
cramped in that tank. If they were my fish I would get another tank and
separate the one getting beaten.
From your previous post it sounds like you have other cichlids in the tank
also. It's not impossible, but unlikely that they are going to survive the
red devil in the long run. There are exceptions to almost everything, but
the only really successful community tanks of big Central American cichlid I
have kept or seen have been quite large, usually over 5 or 6 feet long, and
had only one fish of different species.

"GrlIntrpted" wrote in message
Not sure, it's a corner unit (deep and triangular). It was custome built.
The dimensions are W 21"x H 24" x 2 sides of 20" each. I used to have
regular fresh water fish like: neons, guppies, gold fish etc....but then
decided to make it a tad more interesting . Lots of places to hide,
caves, rocks, even plants in broken clay pots.

Your tank is too small. I have one red devil in a 5', 100 gal tank and I
could not imagine having another red devil in there, given my current
ones temperment. The neets that are left in my tank are alive because
they are fast, agile, and fit in places the devil can't. The catfish are
alive because the devil respects their poisonous spines and sharp teeth.

Central american cichlids require a lot of space. It is tempting to
buy a lot of them when they are young, but you are bound to have problems
when they mature. Even with 100 gallons, I have had to give many fish away
as they matured, and have lost others to aggression.

Your size tank would be great for a few firemouths or onvicts for example,
but even one red devil will be cramped. They get to be 10"+ when
all-grown-up.

I would think about getting rid of some fish or expect some to die.
Eventually your one red devil will likely liquify all the other fish in
your tank. i.e. after the second devil is dead, the first will start to
get annoyed by the other fish in "his" tank and they will meet a similar
fate.

Jeff Dantzler
http://www.drizzle.com/~dantzler/fish.html

P.S. Any one want some free kribs in Seattle? They are about 3/4"

THE TWO MALES WILL USUALLY FIGHT UNTIL ONE DIES .WE HAVE 2 RED DEVILS ONE MALE
ONE FEMALE .AND THEY WERE NEVER AGGRESIVE TOWARDS EACH OTHER.WE ADDED A LARGER
MALE MANEGUENSE AND THE MALE RED DEVIL TURNED AGGRESSIVE TOWARDS THE FEMALE.SO
WE SWITCHED THE FEMALE AND NOW THEY DONT FIGHT ADDING ANY FISH TOTALLY CHANGES
THE DYNAMICS OF THE TANK .I WOULD SUGGEST REMOVING ONE OF THE MALES

I have two red devils that are about 5" in size. One of them is
incredibly
aggressive and is literally terrorizing the other red devil, "he" just
wont
let the other one be. The more dominant one practically chases the other
red devil into corners, where he just attacks him mercilessly. I read
somewhere on the net that this is typical behavior of two male red devils
and that they will continue doing so until one they kill one.

Is there anything that I can do at this point to stop the aggressive one?
Should I introduce another Red Devil but a female or will it get worse?
If I take the aggressive one out will the other one become aggressive
toward
the other cichlids in the tank?

Mariana


I have and can only have 1 in my tank that is 49x16x16 . he is like a
sportsman, anything that moves, gets attacked and killed (not eaten, just
killed). So be aware there can be only one, with these beast.