Blue Ram: size?

How big does a blue ram get? In my mind, these things are like big
guppies -- but how big do they get, really? Can anyone point me to a
photo that gives it some scale?

Are there any good sites dedicated to rams?

In article ,
(Rick Koch) wrote:

How big does a blue ram get? In my mind, these things are like big
guppies -- but how big do they get, really? Can anyone point me to a
photo that gives it some scale?

Good males get 5-6cm (1.25 inches). Most of the rubbish currently in
the pet trade only gets half thuis size ;-(

Are there any good sites dedicated to rams?

How about:
http://mike-edwardes.members.beeb.net/Mramerizi.html

Mike.
--
Mike Edwardes Tropicals
http://mike-edwardes.members.beeb.net

Sounds like a bummer! I was hoping there were bigger fish available.

I was thinking of setting up a community tank, perhaps with rams and
dwarf neon rainbows as centerpieces, but now I'm wondering if I should
just bite the bullet and go sal****er....

Is anyone having good results with rams? Are there any particularly
good sources for these fish?

I personally have never had any luck with them. Both times I tried they
died with in 24 hours. Now I don't even see them in the shops around
here any more.

Vicki

I tried my hand at Blue Rams twice, and each time, they developed some sort
of illness, usually dropsy, and never could keep them healthy.... they
didn't transport well, arrived fragile, and never recouperated.... I oh so
love Rams, Blues especially, but just can't keep them happy.... I know my
water is good, tanks are healthy, but seems like they're just a delicate
breed of fish or the quality of what I got are lacking...


"Rick Koch" wrote in message
m...
How big does a blue ram get? In my mind, these things are like big
guppies -- but how big do they get, really? Can anyone point me to a
photo that gives it some scale?

Are there any good sites dedicated to rams?

On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:26:46 -0400, RedForeman ©® wrote:
I tried my hand at Blue Rams twice, and each time, they developed some sort
of illness, usually dropsy, and never could keep them healthy.... they
didn't transport well, arrived fragile, and never recouperated.... I oh so
love Rams, Blues especially, but just can't keep them happy.... I know my
water is good, tanks are healthy, but seems like they're just a delicate
breed of fish or the quality of what I got are lacking...

I've been told they are delicate and sensitive to water quality
but mine have lived through a 13 hr power cut and a compromised
filter (ammonia got up to 1ppm, nitrite to 2ppm...) and various
other issues. They seem happy enough to me. Guess I'm lucky...


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probably attributed to your water source, ours is good, but fluctuations are
a butch to deal with from season to season, and seems the local FS around
here have the same problem, we never see them, and the only one's I've had
are from reputable breeders... go figure..
"Flash Wilson" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:26:46 -0400, RedForeman ©®
wrote:
I tried my hand at Blue Rams twice, and each time, they developed some
sort
of illness, usually dropsy, and never could keep them healthy.... they
didn't transport well, arrived fragile, and never recouperated.... I oh
so
love Rams, Blues especially, but just can't keep them happy.... I know my
water is good, tanks are healthy, but seems like they're just a delicate
breed of fish or the quality of what I got are lacking...

I've been told they are delicate and sensitive to water quality
but mine have lived through a 13 hr power cut and a compromised
filter (ammonia got up to 1ppm, nitrite to 2ppm...) and various
other issues. They seem happy enough to me. Guess I'm lucky...


--
__ __ ____ __ ____ __ __ __ _ ___ _ _ __ _ ___ ___ _ _ __ _
\ V V /\ V V /\ V V // _` / _ \ '_/ _` / -_)_/ _ \ '_/ _` |
\_/\_/ \_/\_/ \_/\_(_)__, \___/_| \__, \___(_)___/_| \__, |
|___/ |___/ |___/

Interesting to read this. I have heard the problems with blue rams
attributed to many things. I've never kept wild rams, but have always heard
they were hard to acclimate. Then there was a rumor/theory that most
commercially available rams were being bred in Asia, and that severe
inbreeding and use of hormones to "colorup" the fish were the major
problems. My experience many years ago with rams was that they were not
especially delicate. But, I lived where the water was naturally very soft
and slightly acidic (perfect discus water, they did great too!). The rams
lived fine and bred, although the fry were a bit hard to raise.
I got rams twice again, about five years ago and quickly failed with them
both times. The first ones never thrived, ate poorly, declined and died
over about three weeks. The second set (only two) seemed to do OK for about
two weeks, then both succumbed to some sort of dropsy/bloat. Haven't tried
them since. Can't be sure, because of the time gap and differing sources of
fish, but I think you are right about good stable water conditions being
crucial. Still, it does seem a little odd that after so many generations of
captive breeding they would be so hard to acclimate, so maybe the theories
about inbreeding are not completely wrong either.
"RedForeman ©®" wrote in message
...
probably attributed to your water source, ours is good, but fluctuations
are
a butch to deal with from season to season, and seems the local FS around
here have the same problem, we never see them, and the only one's I've had
are from reputable breeders... go figure..
"Flash Wilson" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:26:46 -0400, RedForeman ©®
wrote:
I tried my hand at Blue Rams twice, and each time, they developed some
sort
of illness, usually dropsy, and never could keep them healthy.... they
didn't transport well, arrived fragile, and never recouperated.... I oh
so
love Rams, Blues especially, but just can't keep them happy.... I know
my
water is good, tanks are healthy, but seems like they're just a
delicate
breed of fish or the quality of what I got are lacking...

I've been told they are delicate and sensitive to water quality
but mine have lived through a 13 hr power cut and a compromised
filter (ammonia got up to 1ppm, nitrite to 2ppm...) and various
other issues. They seem happy enough to me. Guess I'm lucky...


--
__ __ ____ __ ____ __ __ __ _ ___ _ _ __ _ ___ ___ _ _ __ _
\ V V /\ V V /\ V V // _` / _ \ '_/ _` / -_)_/ _ \ '_/ _` |
\_/\_/ \_/\_/ \_/\_(_)__, \___/_| \__, \___(_)___/_| \__, |
|___/ |___/ |___/

Can't be sure, because of the time gap and differing sources of
fish, but I think you are right about good stable water conditions being
crucial. Still, it does seem a little odd that after so many generations
of
captive breeding they would be so hard to acclimate, so maybe the theories
about inbreeding are not completely wrong either.

I think you've hit the nail on the head with the captive breeding practices
being a partner in their demise..

Rams are a great fish and mine do fine in good conditions. Size matters not
as the jedi master said... I'm a lurker around here, but my blue rams
spawned the other week and I wanted to share my results. I figure this
thread is as good as anywhere to post my results and water conditions. Quite
a few Rams we get here are German bred or locally (Australia) bred from
German stock, so we are quite lucky. We still get our share of Singaporean
imports though, although I have seen healthy examples of those too.
Fortunately I have some decent LFSs around.

My male is locally bred from German stock. My female is a German import. The
male is about 5cm (2") and probably still growing and I've had him for about
4 months now. All the time I've had him I've been looking for a suitable
female as good rams are a little bit scarce around here. My female is still
quite small at about 3-3.5cm (1.25"). I finally found her about 3-4 weeks
ago. I picked a nice fat one. The male coloured up dramatically (I didn't
think it was possible, he was already very colourful) immediately, they
paired up, and 3 days later they bred. No joke. I got about a 40% hatch in
two days from what I suspected was about 100 eggs. I had thought my female
was still too small to breed and was caught unprepared. Once the fry hatched
they started bouncing off the parents' poorly chosen leaf of my Marble Queen
and my Cardinals nabbed them slowly.

From lurking around here on and off for a while, I'd decided to let the
parents go with the flow on their first brood. The signs were encouraging,
they would remorselessly fan the eggs, pursue any eggs/fry that fell to
return to the leaf, and chase any of my fish away, but eventually the
cardinals got the fry. There was no interest in the eggs, the wrigglers were
different. Hopefully they will breed again soon, but this time I have a flat
rock in a breeder net (below the surface though so the parents still have
outside access, just more defensible and the fry won't bounce out. If they
don't use it I'll move the eggs myself. This will prevent them falling to
the bottom and getting chomped while in the water column. I now also have a
microworm culture going strong and plan to feed them on this and then baby
brine shrimp and finely crushed flake.

The important part for this particular thread though after that bit of
digressing is to give my aquarium parameters that Rams are doing well in.

Size: 160 litres after taking out dead space (3ft tank but quite tall)
pH: 6.5 with homebrew CO2 addition (1x2ltr bottle, changed fortnightly), 7.2
when flat.
Temperatu between 29 and 30 deg C (84-86F ?) depending on the heater's
cycle and outside temp....
KH: 40ppm carbonates, which I believe translates to 2 deg KH. (This is
untreated Sydney water, you Discus keepers are jealous now aren't you.)
GH: No idea, no test kit.
Filter: Eheim 2013 cannister pumping 390 lph. (I don't go in for high
filtration, I have lots of plants to do that and this filter seems to work
very well for me), 1/3 filter wool followed by 2/3 ceramic noodles.
Water change: 30L twice per week, as little as once per week if I'm lazy,
but most of the time I'm not lazy now I have rams and a discus..... Moderate
depth gravel vac in open spaces every time, especially below where I feed. 1
tsp rock salt and 1ml Seachem Flourish per 30ltr.
Tankmates: 1 medium Discus, 6 Cardinals, 4 Congos, 2 Dwarf gouramis, a male
betta splendens, 2 SAEs, a big (well, they don't get BIG, but full grown
anyway) old surly bristlenose pl*co, 5 Kuhli loaches. I was worried about
overstocking, but the conditions are great and have been for a while. I
blame my plants for that fact. I'm going to sell most of my non-Amazon
fish soon (apart from SAEs and bottom feeders) and my Discus and get 6
little Discus for the purpose of forming a pair up, now that I know I can
keep them healthy....
Food: 2-3 times per day (morning evening and before lights out), variations
of freeze dried bloodworms, whatever flake I have at the time (Sera vipan),
sera sinking pellet for the bottom feeders, and my own homebrew food that I
can post if anyone is interested. The Discus only eats this food
(voraciously) and the Rams love it too (along with everything else..).

So there you go, that's how I keep my Rams and they are a pretty special
fish indeed IMHO. Their colour is awesome. My pair mosey about the tank all
day, mostly picking around the bottom. They are very healthy and interact
with human intruders well, I have plenty of wisteria, a marble queen,
something I was sold as a broad leafed Amazon Sword but I am sure isn't,
heaps of Java fern, a red lotus zenkeri that sends out the odd runner that I
give to family and friends, and duckweed that I got with a batch of plants
as a 'bonus' but have learned to appreciate as a surface plant and as a way
to literally watch organics and nutrients get sucked right out of the water.
I also have two 1.5 foot bits of driftwood in the tank....

I've got some good photos of the pair and their eggs (decided not to photo
the spawning on their first run even though they did it on a Sunday so I
could watch) but alas nowhere to put them today. I have some webspace but
have to get it working again.... I'm no expert by any stretch of any
imagination, I've only had the one aquarium, and that for 2-3 years only,
and only about 9 months in its current config. Having said that most of my
friends think its the best home aquarium they've seen. I believe the key to
my Rams is long establishment time for the aquarium and fairly soft water.
Don't go cycling up the aquarium and then straight away adding rams and
discus unless you want disappointment. 9 months ago I changed fish and tack,
adding fish that would be suitable in a Discus tank. Kept my bearded pl*co
and cardinals, added some SAEs and slowly built up till I thought it was
primed to go. Never a problem at all (other than the fact that *I* nearly
didn't make it through my first week of discus ownership. Its nerve wracking
going out to the tank in the mornings to look for an upside-down floating
fish worth more than you can afford) Add your 'dither' fish first after the
cycling (I originally went ammonia addition on this rather than fish and
cannot recommend it highly enough) and then get it well established with
fish that suit your eventual goal, get all the conditions stabilised for 2
or three months at somewhere near your target fish optimums (or better at
their optimum) and just about any fish will be hardy from my limited
experience and not so limited research.

So that's that then. Keen to know when they will try to spawn again if
anyone knows. The female seems to be fattening right up again at a big rate.

Matt.

Complete the froggy if emailing me.....

"Flash Wilson" wrote in message
...

I've been told they are delicate and sensitive to water quality
but mine have lived through a 13 hr power cut and a compromised
filter (ammonia got up to 1ppm, nitrite to 2ppm...) and various
other issues. They seem happy enough to me. Guess I'm lucky...